3D mapping, large area

[BMCG]

Hi all,
I’ve been asked to quote for a 3D survey
Please see the attached map grab.

I’d be using my Mavic Zoom. Does anybody have any recommendations for work flow.
as you can see I did a quick map using Maps Made Easy, which I’m guessing allows the drones to carry on where it leaves the last battery?
Any other recommendations for software to use ?
Thanks bob

 

[DronePhD]

Use DroneDeploy. Don't recommend a M2Zoom, but maybe try slowing the flight speed down a lot!

 

[BMCG]

Use DroneDeploy. Don't recommend a M2Zoom, but maybe try slowing the flight speed down a lot!

 

[BMCG]

I know it’s a trade off with battery capacity, zoom having 20+ mins can cover a much larger area, as resolution here is less important. I think it’s for film location

 

[DronePhD]

Curious to know how it goes.

A rolling shutter and adjustable focal length are two poor attributes to have when trying to take hundreds of pics with no blur.

I always use global shutter for mapping.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Hi all,
I’ve been asked to quote for a 3D survey
Please see the attached map grab.

I’d be using my Mavic Zoom.

1) I don't think the Zoom is robust enough to fly in 20 mph winds (which are quite common @ 300' AGL).
2) The 2.7K camera is really hosing you here. Whatever you're making up in flight time you're losing in more flight lines required which equals more photos to process.

Does anybody have any recommendations for work flow.

Shutter Priority
ISO: 200 (Native ISO for Zoom???)
Shutter 1/2000 - 1/1000 (depending on cloudy or sunny) (Pro Tip: Faster shutter = faster flight with less motion blur).
Choose "Sunny" or "Cloudy" white balance, as "Auto" does weird, undesirable things to color temperature.
Make sure you choose "Mechanical Shutter" if that's an option.

Set Flight Time to 24 minutes and keep an eye on your battery. I can't tell you how annoying it is for the drone to come home with only 5 photos left because the timer ran out.

as you can see I did a quick map using Maps Made Easy, which I’m guessing allows the drones to carry on where it leaves the last battery?

Yes.

Any other recommendations for software to use ?
Thanks bob

For mapping, Map Pilot is what I use. The Terrain Aware feature is a deal-maker. No other software I know of uses SRTM data to determine terrain elevations. It's balls-on accurate.

It's worth the extra money to purchase the "Business" version, which gives you ALL the bells and whistles.

D

 

[BMCG]

1) I don't think the Zoom is robust enough to fly in 20 mph winds (which are quite common @ 300' AGL).
2) The 2.7K camera is really hosing you here. Whatever you're making up in flight time you're losing in more flight lines required which equals more photos to process.





Shutter Priority
ISO: 200 (Native ISO for Zoom???)
Shutter 1/2000 - 1/1000 (depending on cloudy or sunny) (Pro Tip: Faster shutter = faster flight with less motion blur).
Choose "Sunny" or "Cloudy" white balance, as "Auto" does weird, undesirable things to color temperature.
Make sure you choose "Mechanical Shutter" if that's an option.

Set Flight Time to 24 minutes and keep an eye on your battery. I can't tell you how annoying it is for the drone to come home with only 5 photos left because the timer ran out.





Yes.




For mapping, Map Pilot is what I use. The Terrain Aware feature is a deal-maker. No other software I know of uses SRTM data to determine terrain elevations. It's balls-on accurate.

It's worth the extra money to purchase the "Business" version, which gives you ALL the bells and whistles.

D

Thanks for the input

 

[DronePhD]

1) I don't think the Zoom is robust enough to fly in 20 mph winds (which are quite common @ 300' AGL).
2) The 2.7K camera is really hosing you here. Whatever you're making up in flight time you're losing in more flight lines required which equals more photos to process.





Shutter Priority
ISO: 200 (Native ISO for Zoom???)
Shutter 1/2000 - 1/1000 (depending on cloudy or sunny) (Pro Tip: Faster shutter = faster flight with less motion blur).
Choose "Sunny" or "Cloudy" white balance, as "Auto" does weird, undesirable things to color temperature.
Make sure you choose "Mechanical Shutter" if that's an option.

Set Flight Time to 24 minutes and keep an eye on your battery. I can't tell you how annoying it is for the drone to come home with only 5 photos left because the timer ran out.





Yes.




For mapping, Map Pilot is what I use. The Terrain Aware feature is a deal-maker. No other software I know of uses SRTM data to determine terrain elevations. It's balls-on accurate.

It's worth the extra money to purchase the "Business" version, which gives you ALL the bells and whistles.

D

What Timer are you referring to that you can Set?? And how would you avoid missing those last 5 photos? If the UAV hits critical battery levels, you are done no matter how many photos remain. ?

 

[Donnie Frank]

What Timer are you referring to that you can Set??

MapPilot doesn't RTH based on battery capacity. It RTH's based on a timer, which is set by the user. So it's intuitive to set a conservative flight time of say 20 minutes so that your drone lands with roughly 30% battery. The problem (or "feature") is that the timer takes the return trip into consideration. So if the drone is say 2 minutes away, it starts to RTH @ 18 minutes. But it took you 2 minutes to get out there, so you're actually only getting 16 minutes of flight time. This is all fine until you get to your last flight. It may only take 10 seconds to take those last 5 or 10 photos, but the software isn't smart enough to know this. So it simply RTH's at the specified time. So, as you can imagine, it's a colossal waste of time to fly home, change the battery and fly back out to get those last 5-10 photos.

And how would you avoid missing those last 5 photos?

Set the battery RTH to the max time of 24 minutes. The caveat is that this screws with your battery use estimates. The software will estimate less batteries because you've specified more time. So an estimated 2-battery flight might actually require 3 batteries to complete.

If the UAV hits critical battery levels, you are done no matter how many photos remain. ?

Right. But I usually try to land with > 30% capacity left in the battery. But if it comes down to getting those last 5 or 10 photos, I don't mind landing with 25% battery. And honestly, I monitor my telemetry data like a hawk. So it's not like a battery is just going to "sneak up on me." 6 year of professional flying I have been caught twice with not enough battery to get home. This was with my Phantom 1, which had no iPad and no telemetry data. Flight capacity was calculated based on how much juice the battery took to charge (5000mAh battery should ideally take < 3500 milliamps of juice at the end of a flight), which was used to estimate actual flight times. Flight time was monitored via my goggles courtesy my Hero3 record timer. So, as you can imagine, this was a FAR CRY from simply looking at a battery icon with actual remaining capacity right there for the user to see. Mind blowing that anybody runs out of battery ever. Anyway...I got too far out, and then got disoriented in my goggles (amazing how easy that is to do), and consequently ran out of battery before my trusty Phantom 1 made it home.

My point is that running out of battery when I have an iPad right there in front of me reporting remaining battery in real time is not possible with me. So I set the timer to 24 minutes and keep a close watch on the battery. This way I can make executive decisions regarding flight time per battery.

D

 

[Dave Pitman]

MapPilot doesn't RTH based on battery capacity. It RTH's based on a timer, which is set by the user.

Just a heads-up. This statement is true. BUT, there is always "smart RTH" under the hood with Map Pilot with no way for the operator to turn it off. Even if you have it disabled in GO, Map Pilot will still turn it on automatically. Zane explained this to me to my dismay. I do not use SRTH but no way to know for sure that it won't trigger in MP sometime if you are extending your flight time for some reason. Calling it quits with your 25-30%, you should not be bothered by this. Just something to be aware of.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Just a heads-up. This statement is true. BUT, there is always "smart RTH" under the hood with Map Pilot with no way for the operator to turn it off. Even if you have it disabled in GO, Map Pilot will still turn it on automatically. Zane explained this to me to my dismay. I do not use SRTH but no way to know for sure that it won't trigger in MP sometime if you are extending your flight time for some reason. Calling it quits with your 25-30%, you should not be bothered by this. Just something to be aware of.

Well....my recollection is that I get the beep @ 30%, but the bird doesn't stop the mission and RTH. I don't know if that's true @ 20%, as I've never taken a mission into the 20% mark. Also worth noting, I fly with legacy version 2.9.2, which may behave differently than the other version I build with, which is version 4.1.8.



The reason for the different versions is the newer version will build inside polygons. The reason for flying the legacy version is camera control is more predictable with that version.

D

 

[Dave Pitman]

Well....my recollection is that I get the beep @ 30%, but the bird doesn't stop the mission and RTH. I don't know if that's true @ 20%, as I've never taken a mission into the 20% mark. Also worth noting, I fly with legacy version 2.9.2, which may behave differently than the other version I build with, which is version 4.1.8.

To review, Smart RTH doesn't look at percentages like the 2 battery warnings do. SRTH is just an algorithm that triggers RTH anytime it thinks that the drone needs to go home now based upon it's decision that it will hit critical battery level before it gets there. That's all fine. Except, it can get it wrong sometimes .

The reason for the different versions is the newer version will build inside polygons. The reason for flying the legacy version is camera control is more predictable with that version.

I think SRTH is on in both (all) versions.

**Off topic alert**
As someone else that is very particular about updating apps, what does v2.9.2 do for you that 4.1.8 does not, specifically? Also curious what version of ios and devices you are running.
Thx!

 

[Donnie Frank]

To review, Smart RTH doesn't look at percentages like the 2 battery warnings do. SRTH is just an algorithm that triggers RTH anytime it thinks that the drone needs to go home now based upon it's decision that it will hit critical battery level before it gets there. That's all fine. Except, it can get it wrong sometimes .

Copy that. All I can say is that I've never had a MapPilot mission interrupted because of battery percentage. I know this to be true because I have pushed at least 1/2 dozen missions past the 30% point before returning home. That said, before setting the timer to 24 minutes, I had many missions interrupted by the auto timer.

I think SRTH is on in both (all) versions.

Perhaps. I won't disagree.

**Off topic alert**
As someone else that is very particular about updating apps, what does v2.9.2 do for you that 4.1.8 does not, specifically?

With v2.9.2 the MapPilot developers got the camera control spot on. Then they screwed it up in subsequent versions. Let me explain.

When I set "Shutter priority" in ANY platform, I expect the Shutter and ISO to remain locked down to my chosen settings, and the aperture to adjust dynamically to compensate for different lighting conditions. v2.9.2 does this perfectly. For whatever reason, Map Pilot screwed it up in subsequent versions. I'll set the ISO to 200, but Map Pilot reports back an ISO of 100. In some versions "Shutter Priority" mode acts exactly like Auto mode, adjusting everything at will, and in a weird manner. I once did a shoot where I set ISO @ 200, Shutter @ 1/1600 in Shutter Priority mode. Almost immediately the ISO jumped to 800, the aperture slammed shut to like f/8, and the pictures were not only dark, but were grainy and had slight motion blur. WTF??? With version 2.9.2, the shutter and camera behave exactly as expected. They got v2.9.2 right, but then screwed it up. I have bitched to Zane about this to no avail.

Also curious what version of ios and devices you are running.
Thx!

As I'm sure you gathered, I HATE updating ANYTHING. My iPads are no different.

Air 1 = iOS 12.1.1 (16C50)
Air Pro, Gen 2 = iOS 12.1.4 (16D57)
Air Pro, Gen 3 (12.9' WiFi) = iOS 12.3.1

While I HAVE updated them, there are 3 things worth noting:

1) Updates are months behind the release date.
2) I always have an exit strategy (full backup in my PC - NOT iCloud - so I can roll back to the previous iOS if I wish).
3) All 3 iPads are in an almost perpetual state of asking permission to update.

Worth noting, the roll back isn't straight forward. Instead of creating an actual image of the iPad, the backup still has to go out to the Internet to get apps (legacy or otherwise) from the Apple servers. This is how I came to know that Apple archives ALL versions of ALL apps. They simply don't allow the public access to them. However, you CAN get them if you know the hack.

D

 

[Dave Pitman]

With v2.9.2 the MapPilot developers got the camera control spot on. Then they screwed it up in subsequent versions. Let me explain.

Thanks for the detail. I've been using 4.1.5 on shutter priority and it has been working well. As first priority, it uses my selected shutter, ISO 100, and adjusts aperture as needed. When it gets too dark with wide open, it clicks the ISO to 200 and adjusts the aperture as needed. It seems to be reliable.
Nothing wrong with holding on to the version that you are most happy with though.

I have bitched to Zane about this to no avail.

He (they) can be pretty stubborn and somewhat narrow in their thinking sometimes, IMHO.

Air 1 = iOS 12.1.1 (16C50)
Air Pro, Gen 2 = iOS 12.1.4 (16D57)
Air Pro, Gen 3 (12.9' WiFi) = iOS 12.3.1

My pads (Air 2 wifi, 9.7 6th gen wifi) are both on 12.1.3
Both MP and Drone Deploy have had many many performance problems with ios 13. Zane assures me that 13.4 has pretty much cleared everything up but I'm not willing to risk what is working well.
Note that Zane says they no longer test new versions on ios 12, so I guess it's up to us now!

2) I always have an exit strategy (full backup in my PC - NOT iCloud - so I can roll back to the previous iOS if I wish).
3) All 3 iPads are in an almost perpetual state of asking permission to update.

Worth noting, the roll back isn't straight forward. Instead of creating an actual image of the iPad, the backup still has to go out to the Internet to get apps (legacy or otherwise) from the Apple servers. This is how I came to know that Apple archives ALL versions of ALL apps. They simply don't allow the public access to them. However, you CAN get them if you know the hack.

I have done the same. Although of note, I recently used this method to move a legacy copy of Drone Deploy that worked well from one ipad to the other that had a newer version that was broken. Everything went well except that the restore process also tried to update the OS to 13. I was able to stop it but I wasn't expecting it to do that.

Thanks for sharing your process.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Thanks for the detail. I've been using 4.1.5 on shutter priority and it has been working well. As first priority, it uses my selected shutter, ISO 100, and adjusts aperture as needed. When it gets too dark with wide open, it clicks the ISO to 200 and adjusts the aperture as needed. It seems to be reliable.

They may have fixed this problem since v4.0.7. As you can see in this screen capture, despite the EV rising to 1.0, the aperture remained wide open:



I use these small jobs to test contemporary versions of the software I like. Ultimately, I reflew this job with v2.9.2, and got correct exposure.

Nothing wrong with holding on to the version that you are most happy with though.

It's funny, but when it comes to building missions, the new "bells and whistles" are great. But when it comes to deploying missions, the older version doesn't choke on the new mission files and flies super predictably with very predictable camera results.

OH!!! I almost forgot one of the biggest deal-breakers for modern versions of MapPilot. The developers STOPPED access to the Flights.plist file! ARGH!!! When I asked Zane WTF happened to the .plist file, he said something like, "Apple informed us that this was a security risk." WHAT?!?!??!??!?! So that is the other reason I absolutely, positively can't dump my legacy versions.

He (they) can be pretty stubborn and somewhat narrow in their thinking sometimes, IMHO.

Yep. I once wrote to Zane, "Can you please put customer needs over and above what Apple wants??" His one word answer, "No." So there you go. I guess we're just not that important.

My pads (Air 2 wifi, 9.7 6th gen wifi) are both on 12.1.3
Both MP and Drone Deploy have had many many performance problems with ios 13. Zane assures me that 13.4 has pretty much cleared everything up but I'm not willing to risk what is working well.

Heckin'-A. I doubt I'll move any of my iPads to iOS 13 EVER.

Note that Zane says they no longer test new versions on ios 12, so I guess it's up to us now!

I gotta say...based on some of the bugs I've experienced (which have been many), they don't do much testing. BUT...it's $50 software that's pretty incredible, so I try not to ***** too much.

Thanks for sharing your process.

You bet. NP.

D

 

[Dave Pitman]

They may have fixed this problem since v4.0.7.

I think they fixed it in 4.1.0

OH!!! I almost forgot one of the biggest deal-breakers for modern versions of MapPilot. The developers STOPPED access to the Flights.plist file! ARGH!!!

Yep, I hated that as well. It was so beautifully simple. They have kind of almost got their mission plans back to a usable share and backup state by implementing their "sync" function. But the xml (.plist) worked best.

 

[Donnie Frank]

I think they fixed it in 4.1.0

Yep...it seems to behave much better in the latest version. I also forgot to mention that the camera settings were locked down during flight. Another deal breaker. If a big cloud darkens my mapping area too much, I can dynamically change the Shutter values in 2.9.2. The aperture keeps right up. In v4.0.7, the camera settings were locked out during flight. Total deal breaker. That said...

All those problems seem to be gone in the latest version. The one problem/bug that DID still exist was I had ISO set to 200, but Map Pilot was reporting ISO as 100. This was just 2 days ago. I wish I had screen captured that anomaly.

Yep, I hated that as well. It was so beautifully simple.

I use legacy iTunes to simply drag-n-drop the Flights.plist file to my Google Drive, which then propagates out to all my computers. So a year from now I could call up the same missions.

Also, I can instantly remove all missions (one job I had 24 missions!!!), and then instantly bring them back. Zane actually argued that this ability was "useless to most users." He said that deleting 40 GD missions ONE AT A TIME was "just fine." Maddening. No thanx. I'll continue to use the Flights.plist file, thank you very much.

They have kind of almost got their mission plans back to a usable share and backup state by implementing their "sync" function. But the xml (.plist) worked best.

I do use "sync" to get the missions into the later version. The hack is to drag the .plist file to my Air Pro Gen 2 iPad via iTunes, and then use "Sync" to share it over to the Gen 3 iPad running v4.1.3." And it works both ways, since I like using the new interface to BUILD missions. I sync them over to the old iPad and then drag the .plist file over to my Google Drive on my PC. It's a great system because the missions automatically propagate to my laptop, which goes out with us on every shoot. So on the off chance I forgot to load the missions, it takes mere minutes to load them into my older iPad. I just like the Gen 3 because it's a 12.9" iPad, and my other two are the 9.7" models. The older my eyes get, the more I like the bigger eyepad. HA!

D

 

[Dave Pitman]

Also, I can instantly remove all missions (one job I had 24 missions!!!), and then instantly bring them back. Zane actually argued that this ability was "useless to most users."

Their mission organizational functionality is a mess. If you delete an unneeded mission plan, you have to delete it everywhere indiviually else it might sync back again. Long ago I asked about allowing directories for organization. Zane said; "we have something better coming up" What he was referring to turned out to be "boundary groups". Totally useless for me. My clients projects are not necessarily in the same geogarphic vicinity. I sometimes think you must have to sacrifice common sense to be a software engineer. Zane flat out told me one time that everything about Map Pilot and MME processing is aimed toward bumbling noobs and they do not plan to change that. Disappointing for sure. But the terrain awareness is still the best. Good on you for keeping .plist control alive. That ship sailed for me, unfortunately. At least you can archive your missions the way that works for you.

Anyway, I've hijacked this poor OP's thread long enough. I like your style and rest assured you're not alone in lamenting when apps go backwards. I am older as well, and I remember when newer versions of software didn't always break the things that were working. I think it was the result of "testing" which seems to have fallen by the wayside with these newer developers. DD, which I also use sometimes, is just as bad about introducing problems in the interest of "improvements".