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DJI Lost small claims suit

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This was very interesting to me. It was posted in another forum, but I thought it may help some others here.

I flew my Phantom 3 Professional on Maui in April 2016 shortly after updating the software to V1.8.80. Prior to this, I completed over 100 flights without any issues. About 12 minutes into the flight, a “propulsion output is limited to ensure the safety of the battery” warning popped up on the DJIGo app. I had never seen this error before the software update. I had no idea what this meant or what to do about it, so tried to troubleshoot and then tried to bring my Phantom home. However, its maximum speed seemed to be reduced by about half even when I was trying to fly forward at full speed. A few minutes later, when the Phantom was about half a mile away (it would have been home at that point if the max speed was not reduced), the battery ran down so far that it auto landed. I tried to recover it but was unable to find it.

The battery had less than 25 cycles and was still under warranty, as was the Phantom. I analyzed the flight record and discovered that after the warning appeared, my max speed was limited by about 40% when the elevator input was at max forward, even though my battery drain rate was unchanged.

This cut my range in half during the last 2-3 minutes of flight, very likely resulting in the loss. I contacted DJI tech support for a warranty replacement and uploaded the flight record as requested. A few months of back-and-forth communication followed, during which DJI attributed the loss to the wind, unforeseen environmental factors, and pilot error. DJI never explained what I had been doing differently from previous flights that caused the “propulsion limited…” warning and stated that the warning in no way indicated a problem with the performance of the Phantom. Ultimately, I filed a small claims suit for the cost of the Phantom and accessories (OEM impellers and battery) that I lost. In court, DJI argued that pilot error caused the loss and that a loss was not covered by warranty because there was no way for DJI to examine the Phantom. However, DJI was unable to explain what pilot actions caused the propulsion to be limited. I argued that I lost my Phantom because it’s range was cut in half in the last 2-3 minutes of flight and that DJI never informed Phantom owners about what could cause this or how to prevent it. I also pointed out that complete loss of the Phantom due to hardware failure was covered by warranty. The court ruled in my favor and awarded me the cost of the Phantom, accessories, and court fees.

Needless to say, I’m very disappointed that I had to take the time and effort (six months and over 20 hours of my time) to go to court to get warranty service for my Phantom. I can’t imagine buying another DJI product until there’s a drastic change in DJI customer service policies. I should mention that I did ask for DJI feedback on this before posting, and the feedback was, “we are working on improving both the statement of the warning and our customer service, based on your and other customer’s feedbacks. We are in the process of revising that particular warning involved in this case, for more clear instructions and better wording.”
 
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This was very interesting to me. It was posted in another forum, but I thought it may help some others here.

I flew my Phantom 3 Professional on Maui in April 2016 shortly after updating the software to V1.8.80. Prior to this, I completed over 100 flights without any issues. About 12 minutes into the flight, a “propulsion output is limited to ensure the safety of the battery” warning popped up on the DJIGo app. I had never seen this error before the software update. I had no idea what this meant or what to do about it, so tried to troubleshoot and then tried to bring my Phantom home. However, its maximum speed seemed to be reduced by about half even when I was trying to fly forward at full speed. A few minutes later, when the Phantom was about half a mile away (it would have been home at that point if the max speed was not reduced), the battery ran down so far that it auto landed. I tried to recover it but was unable to find it.

The battery had less than 25 cycles and was still under warranty, as was the Phantom. I analyzed the flight record and discovered that after the warning appeared, my max speed was limited by about 40% when the elevator input was at max forward, even though my battery drain rate was unchanged.

This cut my range in half during the last 2-3 minutes of flight, very likely resulting in the loss. I contacted DJI tech support for a warranty replacement and uploaded the flight record as requested. A few months of back-and-forth communication followed, during which DJI attributed the loss to the wind, unforeseen environmental factors, and pilot error. DJI never explained what I had been doing differently from previous flights that caused the “propulsion limited…” warning and stated that the warning in no way indicated a problem with the performance of the Phantom. Ultimately, I filed a small claims suit for the cost of the Phantom and accessories (OEM impellers and battery) that I lost. In court, DJI argued that pilot error caused the loss and that a loss was not covered by warranty because there was no way for DJI to examine the Phantom. However, DJI was unable to explain what pilot actions caused the propulsion to be limited. I argued that I lost my Phantom because it’s range was cut in half in the last 2-3 minutes of flight and that DJI never informed Phantom owners about what could cause this or how to prevent it. I also pointed out that complete loss of the Phantom due to hardware failure was covered by warranty. The court ruled in my favor and awarded me the cost of the Phantom, accessories, and court fees.

Needless to say, I’m very disappointed that I had to take the time and effort (six months and over 20 hours of my time) to go to court to get warranty service for my Phantom. I can’t imagine buying another DJI product until there’s a drastic change in DJI customer service policies. I should mention that I did ask for DJI feedback on this before posting, and the feedback was, “we are working on improving both the statement of the warning and our customer service, based on your and other customer’s feedbacks. We are in the process of revising that particular warning involved in this case, for more clear instructions and better wording.”
Which country was the action brought in?
 
Hmm, if I was the judge I would ask him why he flew that far out of sight. Since he couldn't see the phantom how could he claim it wasn't a pilot error? If he had the bird in sight he would have had a better chance to save it, actually, he wouldn't have lost it at all. Even at 500m it takes only a minute or 2 to bring the bird home, including landing and shutting down. And that's even aside the fact that he could also have been breaking the law, although I'm not familiar with the law in Maui.
I am very sure DJI has clearly stated always to fly VLOS, in every manual.

This guy was lucky he got away with it, IMHO.
 
This was very interesting to me. It was posted in another forum, but I thought it may help some others here.

I flew my Phantom 3 Professional on Maui in April 2016 shortly after updating the software to V1.8.80. Prior to this, I completed over 100 flights without any issues. About 12 minutes into the flight, a “propulsion output is limited to ensure the safety of the battery” warning popped up on the DJIGo app. I had never seen this error before the software update. I had no idea what this meant or what to do about it, so tried to troubleshoot and then tried to bring my Phantom home. However, its maximum speed seemed to be reduced by about half even when I was trying to fly forward at full speed. A few minutes later, when the Phantom was about half a mile away (it would have been home at that point if the max speed was not reduced), the battery ran down so far that it auto landed. I tried to recover it but was unable to find it.

The battery had less than 25 cycles and was still under warranty, as was the Phantom. I analyzed the flight record and discovered that after the warning appeared, my max speed was limited by about 40% when the elevator input was at max forward, even though my battery drain rate was unchanged.

This cut my range in half during the last 2-3 minutes of flight, very likely resulting in the loss. I contacted DJI tech support for a warranty replacement and uploaded the flight record as requested. A few months of back-and-forth communication followed, during which DJI attributed the loss to the wind, unforeseen environmental factors, and pilot error. DJI never explained what I had been doing differently from previous flights that caused the “propulsion limited…” warning and stated that the warning in no way indicated a problem with the performance of the Phantom. Ultimately, I filed a small claims suit for the cost of the Phantom and accessories (OEM impellers and battery) that I lost. In court, DJI argued that pilot error caused the loss and that a loss was not covered by warranty because there was no way for DJI to examine the Phantom. However, DJI was unable to explain what pilot actions caused the propulsion to be limited. I argued that I lost my Phantom because it’s range was cut in half in the last 2-3 minutes of flight and that DJI never informed Phantom owners about what could cause this or how to prevent it. I also pointed out that complete loss of the Phantom due to hardware failure was covered by warranty. The court ruled in my favor and awarded me the cost of the Phantom, accessories, and court fees.

Needless to say, I’m very disappointed that I had to take the time and effort (six months and over 20 hours of my time) to go to court to get warranty service for my Phantom. I can’t imagine buying another DJI product until there’s a drastic change in DJI customer service policies. I should mention that I did ask for DJI feedback on this before posting, and the feedback was, “we are working on improving both the statement of the warning and our customer service, based on your and other customer’s feedbacks. We are in the process of revising that particular warning involved in this case, for more clear instructions and better wording.”
Without a source to verify this is rather misleading...
 
Here are a couple of attachments he had attached to the post. Looks like it was in Hawaii.

Screen Shot 2016-11-04 at 8.35.23 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-11-04 at 8.37.32 PM.png
 
Would be kinda ironic if after publishing that data to sue DJI he was sued himself for illegally flying in the first place...
 
I had that 'propulsion output limited' message on my screen only once. It was after a zillionth update of Go. The bird was on 1.9.30. When the message popped up I immediately looked at my I1 and noticed it was severely wobbling left to right in forward flight. Never saw that before. I was over the water but only about 100m away, only about 5minutes in flight.
Landed immediately on the lakeshore and as soon as I switched off the I1, the remote started to beep. Go said it needed a remote calibration.
When I came home I performed a calibration and thought It would be good to do the second remote as well. After calibrating both, the I1 didn't recognise them anymore and I had to rebind them (with all the hassle to get them to bind again, firmware down to 1.6 and up again).

Long story short, it turned out that the latest IOS Go update was flawed. After completely deleting and reinstalling Go all problems were gone.
I'm very sure that if I was flying a mile out and far beyond LOS I wouldn't have seen the behaviour of the bird. On the screen the wobbling was not at all visible because of the gimbal corrections.
Probably would have lost it in the lake.

Never fly beyond LOS. You can't just trust the FPV screen.
And always perform an extra test procedure after any Go update (apart from testing and recalibrating after a FW update).
 
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I had that 'propulsion output limited' message on my screen only once. It was after a zillionth update of Go. The bird was on 1.9.30. When the message popped up I immediately looked at my I1 and noticed it was severely wobbling left to right in forward flight. Never saw that before. I was over the water but only about 100m away, only about 5minutes in flight.
Landed immediately on the lakeshore and as soon as I switched off the I1, the remote started to beep. Go said it needed a remote calibration.
When I came home I performed a calibration and thought It would be good to do the second remote as well. After calibrating both, the I1 didn't recognise them anymore and I had to rebind them (with all the hassle to get them to bind again, firmware down to 1.6 and up again).

Long story short, it turned out that the latest IOS Go update was flawed. After completely deleting and reinstalling Go all problems were gone.
I'm very sure that if I was flying a mile out and far beyond LOS I wouldn't have seen the behaviour of the bird. On the screen the wobbling was not at all visible because of the gimbal corrections.
Probably would have lost it in the lake.

Never fly beyond LOS. You can't just trust the FPV screen.
And always perform an extra test procedure after any Go update (apart from testing and recalibrating after a FW update).

I have to add that, after finally rebinding the remotes I first tried the simulator and still found some strange things. Like not transforming to flight mode. It stayed in transport mode while flying the sim. It refused to fly in GPS mode, stayed in Atti while in P-GPS. That told me that Go was the culprit. After reinstall evertyhing was fine.

So after any Go update I will check the simulator fist, before I do a real test flight.
 
On a side note...I was getting that propulsion output error many times a few months ago on my inspire 1 pro I read up on it and basically it has to do with how recently you charged your battery. I now only use batteries that I have charged within the previous 24 hours and I have yet to see that message again. So flyers beware.
 
We have run into the propulsion error several times recently with our Inspire 1 but don't recall if the batteries were charged within 24 hrs before, but will now keep track of it.

Thanks for the info...jim & kelly
 
On a side note...I was getting that propulsion output error many times a few months ago on my inspire 1 pro I read up on it and basically it has to do with how recently you charged your battery. I now only use batteries that I have charged within the previous 24 hours and I have yet to see that message again. So flyers beware.

We had the same issue with a pilot that flew with a battery that had been sitting and had discharged slightly. The battery time remaining was inaccurate and you get a limited propulsion error and rapid fall in battery life part way through the flight. Our rule is that you must start with a fully charged battery (if it's warm when you take it out it has already started discharging even though all the led's might light up). You can do multiple flights in succession with a battery that was fully charged at initial power up even when it shows only 1/2 power but don't ever start a series of flights with a partially charged battery.
 
We had the same issue with a pilot that flew with a battery that had been sitting and had discharged slightly. The battery time remaining was inaccurate and you get a limited propulsion error and rapid fall in battery life part way through the flight. Our rule is that you must start with a fully charged battery (if it's warm when you take it out it has already started discharging even though all the led's might light up). You can do multiple flights in succession with a battery that was fully charged at initial power up even when it shows only 1/2 power but don't ever start a series of flights with a partially charged battery.
" don't ever start a series of flights with a partially charged battery."
This should be engraved on the forehead of every DJI product owner...
 
I'm the original poster of the info reposted above. (Thanks for the repost ringolong). Here's a link to my post: Prompt information - DJI FORUM
Flight data and analysis are attached. Battery was fully charged at takeoff. Suit was in California, USA. I was flying LOS. LOS doesn't specify max distance.
I should add that DJI offered 50% off a new Phantom 3 a few days before the trial, which I turned down. Let me know if any other questions.
 

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I'm the original poster of the info reposted above. (Thanks for the repost ringolong). Here's a link to my post: Prompt information - DJI FORUM
Flight data and analysis are attached. Battery was fully charged at takeoff. Suit was in California, USA. I was flying LOS. LOS doesn't specify max distance.
I should add that DJI offered 50% off a new Phantom 3 a few days before the trial, which I turned down. Let me know if any other questions.

You won? Did you get replacement, or money back?
 
The court ruled in my favor and awarded me the cost of the Phantom, accessories, and court fees. DJI issued a check within a week of the judgement.
 
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" don't ever start a series of flights with a partially charged battery."
This should be engraved on the forehead of every DJI product owner..

I've had this message with freshly charged batteries. Apparently it can be brought about by doing heavy manoeuvres, such as a long climb at high throttle moving forward. I had it after just such a move
 
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