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DJI NFZ / GEO. Should DJI Restrict Commercial Operators?

Should DJI allow gov't certified operators to opt out of their NFZ / GEO system with verification?

  • 1. No, DJI knows Best

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2. Yes, DJI has no role in restricting Government Certified operators.

    Votes: 42 100.0%
  • 3. Don't really care one way or the other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    42
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**Please note that we are talking here about operators that have fulfilled all of their countries requirements and have received proper certification to operate commercially within that countries regulations.**

If you are certified by your country as a commercial sUAS operator, Do you think that DJI should restrict your use of your DJI drone regardless of the fact that your government does not request or require DJI to have this restriction in place.

DJI has a system in place for certified operators to request individual unlocking of airspace restricted by their software. This unlock usually takes about 2 days to obtain, and lasts for 30 days. There is no way to test that the unlock actually will work until you are on site. Use of DJI drones in an emergency scenario within DJI's restricted airspace areas would be restricted for at least this 2 day period.

Brendan Schulman, vice pres. of legal for DJI, and the admin of this program, has been asked to permanently or annually unlock the sUAS of certified operators upon proof of certification by whatever means DJI feels necessary to allow commercial operators piece of mind that their equipment will fly for them in the course of their work. Mr. Schulman has thus far refused. And in addition, he has been unwilling to state specifically why he feels DJI China should be the final authority as to if a DJI craft, operated by a certified operator, will fly. His canned response has been to the effect that DJI wants to balance safety and flexibility. And that their system, while not mandated by any jurisdiction, is reasonable.

Mr. Schulman and various others have told those of us that are lobbying for this release from DJI, that very few certified operators have complained about this restriction, so therefore most must believe that what DJI is doing must be okay.

What do you think?
 
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What do you think?

I think it's 100% crappola !!!
If the FAA mandated ALL drone companies to do this, then whatever, ..... but that's not the case.
DJI has no right to "forcefully" practice their parenting skills on us.
They should stick to solving their horrendous prop and firmware bug problems.

Who's with me on his one??
 
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**Please note that we are talking here about operators that have fulfilled all of their countries requirements and have received proper certification to operate commercially within that countries regulations.**

If you are certified by your country as a commercial sUAS operator, Do you think that DJI should restrict your use of your DJI drone regardless of the fact that your government does not request or require DJI to have this restriction in place.

DJI has a system in place for certified operators to request individual unlocking of airspace restricted by their software. This unlock usually takes about 2 days to obtain, and lasts for 30 days. There is no way to test that the unlock actually will work until you are on site. Use of DJI drones in an emergency scenario within DJI's restricted airspace areas would be restricted for at least this 2 day period.
Who is better qualified to determine any individuals circumstances? If I went through flight training and then developed our program from the ground up, I would hope that I am informed enough to be able to determine whether or not I was authorized to fly in any particular patch of airspace at any given time. After all, I personally filed for the CoAs and received the authorization to fly from the FAA; something some hack in China is completely unaware of. I certainly am not going to rely on a programmer in another country to determine this for me.
 
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I've been stating for a year that dji does not have the right to turn off, shut down, the property we have puchased from them. I'm a retired federal express pilot, holding the highest ATP ratings, with 15 type ratings! I believe I understand the airspace rules well enough to determine and legally accept liability deciding if I can fly my drone in a certain location and altitude! What do others think?

Frankly , I suspect dji and the Chinese government are likely capturing images and data of our flights! Just think it through? If dji can shut down a unit , it has control over the unit and knows the gps location. How many of you have seen a message press c1 to contact dji while flying? I see it frequently around the wash D.C. Area. Such a message means dji knows exactly the location and alt of the unit!
 
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I've been stating for a year that dji does not have the right to turn off, shut down, the property we have puchased from them. I'm a retired federal express pilot, holding the highest ATP ratings, with 15 type ratings! I believe I understand the airspace rules well enough to determine and legally accept liability deciding if I can fly my drone in a certain location and altitude! What do others think?

Frankly , I suspect dji and the Chinese government are likely capturing images and data of our flights! Just think it through? If dji can shut down a unit , it has control over the unit and knows the gps location. How many of you have seen a message press c1 to contact dji while flying? I see it frequently around the wash D.C. Area. Such a message means dji knows exactly the location and alt of the unit!
Completely agree! I will go further and add that DJI or the FAA do not have the right or authority to control any aircraft. FAA rules and regulations apply to the pilot in command.
Can you imagine a device used to shutdown or prevent from flying a Cessna 172 or Cherokee 140?
 
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Every part 107 pilot should know that.
Not sure where this thread is going. Anyone violently opposed to DJI software restrictions should not buy DJI. NFZ opt out is quite simple. End of problem.
I purchased my Inspire and 3 Phantoms before NFZ was implemented.
People buying DJI products are not told in advance that their purchase will not work in certain conditions and that is deceiving.
Like you, many of us are licensed pilots and owners of full size aircraft. I am also a CFI and abide by FAA regulations but the last thing I would want is manufacturers controlling where I can fly.
Full size aircraft manufacturers don't do it, then why should DJI?
That is the point of the OP...
 
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I purchased my Inspire and 3 Phantoms before NFZ was implemented.
People buying DJI products are not told in advance that their purchase will not work in certain conditions and that is deceiving.
Like you, many of us are licensed pilots and owners of full size aircraft. I am also a CFI and abide by FAA regulations but the last thing I would want is manufacturers controlling where I can fly.
Full size aircraft manufacturers don't do it, then why should DJI?
That is the point of the OP...
Stupid me, I thought the OP was just running a survey. BTW, A page from the P4 manual below. If a customer doesn't bother to read a manual free to anyone, perhaps they shouldn't own a drone...
NFZ.JPG .
 
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These are not toys. And I am not a DJI shrill. Any one who doesn't understand they are going to be up in the national airspace and won't be bothered to read a manual available for free, shouldn't own these.
BTW, how many car owners know their every move prior to a collision is permanently recorded by an on-board "black box," (EDR) available to police (I used to reconstruct car crashes for a living), attorneys and pretty much anybody after the insurance pays you for your car. How many people ask? Same thing for a drone buyer who doesn't do her/his homework.
 
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The OP asked "Should DJI Restrict Commercial Operators" and my opinion is definitely NO!
Regarding your car comment, does the car keep you from going anywhere?
 
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Stupid me, I thought the OP was just running a survey .
Yes, the point of the thread was to gauge what the consensus is on this topic. There has been a thread on RCG since DJI's GEO (not the original NFZs) became available. There has been a lot of "discussion" on that thread about all of this. To distill it down would be.

DJI (and other manufacturers) adding geofencing to their products is not necessarily a bad thing in order to keep the idiots and first time buyers from going out and getting in trouble.

Regarding certified operators, many of us certified guys have proposed that DJI verify our certification and let us opt out of GEO and NFZs on our aircraft. Mr. Schulman has steadfastly remarked that he doesn't consider their system to be any hinderence to certified ops, and that "individual unlocking" is available by submitting and application with DJI and waiting a couple to a few days. If you are contracted to provide sUAS ops in support of emergency response, for example, this scheme does not work. Also, GEO is not perfect, and you can get to a location that you thought you had received an unlock for only to find a problem.

My, and others, opinion is that the certified operator is responsible and the final authority for a flight. GEO changes nothing in this regard, and can only be a problem and not a solution to anything. DJI should verify and unlock, period, end of story. Since certificates expire, they could limit the unlock period to the certificate time or even annually would be reasonable.

The reason for running the survey in here, is that Brendan Schulman, and various others in that discussion have stated that the major % of certified operators around the world using DJI gear don't really care if DJI NFZs exist or not. And that it is just a few of us taking this position. I disagree. I believe if asked, most certified ops understand that they are responsible for every aspect of a mission and GEO can only lead to problems for them and not help them in any way.
 
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Yes, the point of the thread was to gauge what the consensus is on this topic. There has been a thread on RCG since DJI's GEO (not the original NFZs) became available. There has been a lot of "discussion" on that thread about all of this. To distill it down would be.

DJI (and other manufacturers) adding geofencing to their products is not necessarily a bad thing in order to keep the idiots and first time buyers from going out and getting in trouble.

Regarding certified operators, many of us certified guys have proposed that DJI verify our certification and let us opt out of GEO and NFZs on our aircraft. Mr. Schulman has steadfastly remarked that he doesn't consider their system to be any hinderence to certified ops, and that "individual unlocking" is available by submitting and application with DJI and waiting a couple to a few days. If you are contracted to provide sUAS ops in support of emergency response, for example, this scheme does not work. Also, GEO is not perfect, and you can get to a location that you thought you had received an unlock for only to find a problem.

My, and others, opinion is that the certified operator is responsible and the final authority for a flight. GEO changes nothing in this regard, and can only be a problem and not a solution to anything. DJI should verify and unlock, period, end of story. Since certificates expire, they could limit the unlock period to the certificate time or even annually would be reasonable.

The reason for running the survey in here, is that Brendan Schulman, and various others in that discussion have stated that the major % of certified operators around the world using DJI gear don't really care if DJI NFZs exist or not. And that it is just a few of us taking this position. I disagree. I believe if asked, most certified ops understand that they are responsible for every aspect of a mission and GEO can only lead to problems for them and not help them in any way.

I also believe that our lawmakers in the US would not be comfortable knowing that a Chinese company is restricting US based commercial operators, and very well may be collecting telemetry and other "meta data" about mission flown with DJI aircraft. So, let your representatives know your thoughts in addition to your friends here.
"I also believe that our lawmakers in the US would not be comfortable knowing that a Chinese company is restricting US based commercial operators, and very well may be collecting telemetry and other "meta data" about mission flown with DJI aircraft. So, let your representatives know your thoughts in addition to your friends here."
I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about our Iphones than our Phantoms...
upload_2017-4-8_14-18-51.png
 
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I think you all underestimate the level of attack we've been under by China for years... this is purely to harm the west.
 

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