USA How is this legal?

[Hank]

Saw on the news this morning a drone video of a fire. I know this is by an airport. SFC to 4200 feet area.
Was on the news, on the web, with his name on it. Can this be done on emergency basis?

 

[licensed pilot]

Perhaps the pilot already had an authorization for this area? I don't see the "emergency" conditions for filming a fire unless the fire dept. is the UAV operator and obtained a Special Governmental Interest procedures COA (formerly emergency COAs). OR I supposse the fire agency could have asked the operator to assist and requested the SGI authorization on that basis...hard to tell.

An individual operator filming a fire in controlled airspace just for kicks doesn't meet SGI criteria. Can you post the ICAO airport code?

 

[Hank]

Monterey RGNL(MRY)

Thanks for your reply. Taking the 107 lets you know we have rules, not grey areas. Don't know all the facts. But if it was me, I know I could not fly. Was wondering if I missed something. This guy is making money at it, Not me.
Also thinking, even though it was probably bought by the local TV station...in the future if the FAA saw things, they would go after the pic not the Station. Am I right? Hope they don't, but just saying.

 

[licensed pilot]

The TV station is not subject to FAA sanctions and fines, the PIC is.

 

[Hank]

Does the FAA do this kind of thing, or do they have to catch you in the act?

 

[Hank]

By the way, Licensed Pilot, I have been in the shadows for a while and have always enjoyed your comments, thank you

 

[licensed pilot]

I read somewhere the FAA has about 1500 aviation inspectors for the entire USA, devoted to more serious aviation & airmen issues. Do the math. IMHO, they'll only act on UAS when they get a good complaint, and, at most, the offender is likely to just get a warning letter.

 

[n5101]

I read somewhere the FAA has about 1500 aviation inspectors for the entire USA, devoted to more serious aviation & airmen issues. Do the math. IMHO, they'll only act on UAS when they get a good complaint, and, at most, the offender is likely to just get a warning letter.

As a commercial pilot you should know that there is a ton of different kind of volunteers and designee's from FAA who have reporting authority.
Aviation is based on self governance and responsibility, with thousands of hours and dollars invested. One would have something to loose if willingly breaks the rules.
On the other hand absence of the above does not really make "remote pilot" the airman and for the right sum of money rules could be broken.
Quite clearly video above was shot without any permissions... No court would hold the $250,000 fine if no accidents or victims involved.
But firefighters are peace officers and are as well as a police officers are actually liable for upholding the law. But most would not follow all the trouble of upholding unreasonable regulations, as you see in this example.
Wouldn't one think that geese and ducks "residing" near airports would need ADSB transponders implanted?
So lets just say it was a very intelligent goose filming the fire. (Until now birds of any weight were exempt from FAR 107 by the way of exclusion: not mentioned there)

 

[Hank]

Awesome, where do I find these pet geese. I want one.

 

[n5101]

(not sure you want it, it was male, fat, in his 50's)

 

[Donnie Frank]

He's flying well outside the perimeter < 100' AGL. I see no problem or safety hazard.

Let's get real folks. If an airplane or helicopter is occupying that air space, a 3 lb. drone is the LEAST of their problems.

 

[Rogueair]

He's flying well outside the perimeter < 100' AGL. I see no problem or safety hazard.

Let's get real folks. If an airplane or helicopter is occupying that air space, a 3 lb. drone is the LEAST of their problems.

Are you kidding me? A 3 lb drone hitting the rotors of a helicopter would be catastrophic

 

[Pescatoral Pursuit]

How is driving 56 in a 55 zone legal?

 

[licensed pilot]

As a commercial pilot you should know that there is a ton of different kind of volunteers and designee's from FAA who have reporting authority.
Aviation is based on self governance and responsibility, with thousands of hours and dollars invested. One would have something to loose if willingly breaks the rules.
On the other hand absence of the above does not really make "remote pilot" the airman and for the right sum of money rules could be broken.
Quite clearly video above was shot without any permissions... No court would hold the $250,000 fine if no accidents or victims involved.
But firefighters are peace officers and are as well as a police officers are actually liable for upholding the law. But most would not follow all the trouble of upholding unreasonable regulations, as you see in this example.
Wouldn't one think that geese and ducks "residing" near airports would need ADSB transponders implanted?
So lets just say it was a very intelligent goose filming the fire. (Until now birds of any weight were exempt from FAR 107 by the way of exclusion: not mentioned there)

"As a commercial pilot you should know that there is a ton of different kind of volunteers and designee's from FAA who have reporting authority." Really, didn't know that. (I was flying before you were born, sonny.).

BTW, Any person can report any pilot misconduct to the FAA.

I fail to see your point.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Are you kidding me? A 3 lb drone hitting the rotors of a helicopter would be catastrophic

Aside from the fact that you missed my point that a full scale bird occupying that space in the first place would have much bigger fish to fry....

Re: Catastrophic... No, it wouldn't.

1. No drone could fight the 2,000+ lbs. of thrust exerted by the helicopter. In case you're geometrically challenged, the helicopter would have to fly up from UNDER the bird. And if there is a helicopter flying around @ 50' AGL near a fire, again, the drone is the least of his problems.

2. Ask any helicopter pilot. A 3 lb. drone would likely bounce off either rotors. What do you think happens when a 10 lb. goose hits the rotors?

Really, man...I prefaced my comment with "Let's get real." Your flaw; you didn't get real. You got "creative."

 

[atcsllc]

It's possible that the Pilot in Command was working for the News Agency, also possible that the news agency has a standard operating procedure regarding contract drone operations and it is also possible that the Pilot filed the correct authorizations to fly in this emergency situation. From the footage that was shot by the UAS the pilot is maintaining separation from the emergency responders while also maintaining an altitude of below 400 ft AGL. The footage is professional and not in my opinion interfering with the Fire department. It could also be possible that the Emergency Responders designated a Visual Observer and an individual to view the Live Aerial footage and then relay critical information to the Firefighters in order to assist in controlling the burn. The downwash of a manned helicopter is quite significant and in this case would add fuel to the fire, however, a small UAS does no produce enough downwash to induce more air to the fire so it makes sense that in this particular event that it is advantageous to enlist the services of a Commercial UAS pilot.

There are many Public and Government entities that contract with RPIC's across the country, the FAA does not prohibit that type of activity as long as the RPIC complies with the regulations of both the FAA Part 107 and the local authorities.

 

[Eric Braun]

Aside from the fact that you missed my point that a full scale bird occupying that space in the first place would have much bigger fish to fry....

Re: Catastrophic... No, it wouldn't.

1. No drone could fight the 2,000+ lbs. of thrust exerted by the helicopter. In case you're geometrically challenged, the helicopter would have to fly up from UNDER the bird. And if there is a helicopter flying around @ 50' AGL near a fire, again, the drone is the least of his problems.

2. Ask any helicopter pilot. A 3 lb. drone would likely bounce off either rotors. What do you think happens when a 10 lb. goose hits the rotors?

Really, man...I prefaced my comment with "Let's get real." Your flaw; you didn't get real. You got "creative."

A drone hit the tail rotor of an MD500 at the Baja 500. It's path was under the main rotor disk. It produced severe shaking but the pilot managed to land OK. They trailered the heli out.

Point is, to be efficient, the heli needs to move a lot of air at slow speed. So the heli gets its 2,000 pounds of lift from a large rotor disk. Do the math of what percentage of that lift affects a drone. You'd have to know the area of the top of the drone.

Heli pilots don't want any part of their aircraft hit by a solid object... I can tell you that for sure!

 

[atcsllc]

Aside from the fact that you missed my point that a full scale bird occupying that space in the first place would have much bigger fish to fry....

Re: Catastrophic... No, it wouldn't.

1. No drone could fight the 2,000+ lbs. of thrust exerted by the helicopter. In case you're geometrically challenged, the helicopter would have to fly up from UNDER the bird. And if there is a helicopter flying around @ 50' AGL near a fire, again, the drone is the least of his problems.

2. Ask any helicopter pilot. A 3 lb. drone would likely bounce off either rotors. What do you think happens when a 10 lb. goose hits the rotors?

Really, man...I prefaced my comment with "Let's get real." Your flaw; you didn't get real. You got "creative."

Back in 1984 I was stationed in Stuttgart Germany, our unit had about 20 UH1 Hueys (Bell 204) and 15 OH58 Kiowas (Jet Ranger) We were doing Aerial Gunnery missions with our Hueys at Graphonwier with 60 cals and mini guns and we had several OH-58's Scouting targets, the Huey I was on went NOE (Nape of the Earth) literally 50 ft AGL and passed through a section of dense Fir trees with a forest dirt road cut through the trees, the rotor diameter of a Huey is 48 feet and the width of the dirt road from side to side was 54 feet, the pilot literally sneazed and moved the cyclic stick ever so slightly which sent us off heading by 7 feet, both rotor blades struck trees effectivly turning the Helo into a very large hedge trimmer.
At the point of contact, we noticed a slight vibration but that was all, the pilot corrected his heading and pulled pitch while reducing throttle which really puts a load on the blades by the way. As we came to a hover and landed without incident we then went out to have a look at the FOD damage done to the Blades, on each blade the upper surface was ripped off about 1 foot from the tip of the blade, my point being is that even such damage as a blade strike or both blades the Huey kept flying and we landed safely, a small UAV would have the same effect as a pebble bouncing off a windshield, it may cause a crack but it wouldn't be catastrophic.

 

[Rogueair]

Case in point, a clipboard, (lighter than a drone) caused this crash
Fatal Idaho Fish and Game helicopter crash caused by biologist's clipboard

 

[Donnie Frank]

A drone hit the tail rotor of an MD500 at the Baja 500. It's path was under the main rotor disk. It produced severe shaking but the pilot managed to land OK. They trailered the heli out.

Here's the damage:

Catastrophic? Worth noting, assuming the helicopter was following a race, I can only assume an air speed of AT LEAST 60 mph, if not closer to 80 or 100 mph. I don't think we would see that kind of air speed 100' over a fire within city limits.

Point is, to be efficient, the heli needs to move a lot of air at slow speed. So the heli gets its 2,000 pounds of lift from a large rotor disk. Do the math of what percentage of that lift affects a drone. You'd have to know the area of the top of the drone.

Sure...but the vortex gets more powerful as you move outward. So...while I concede that MAYBE on its best day a very powerful drone might be able to ascend directly under the hull of the helicopter, I don't think a hull strike would cause any damage. Should the drone move even 3' outside the hull's radius, it would be hit with the brunt of the vortex, which would undoubtedly either slam it to the ground or, at the lest, push it 40 or 50 feet below the helicopter. It would be an interesting experiment/study.

Heli pilots don't want any part of their aircraft hit by a solid object... I can tell you that for sure!

Agreed. But my original point was that no helicopter pilot would be in that air space. The rotor wash alone would probably wreak havoc with fire-fighting efforts. Therefore, flying a drone where no helicopter would ever fly under any conditions seems safe to me.

Hopefully, we can agree on this point.