How long for permission of aerial work

[Heller792]

Hi all, my ops manual was sent to the CAA on the 26th March and I still havnt had anything back yet. What makes it worse is that its impossible to get hold of them even after speaking to someone for the CAA at Gatwick!!!! I have had to turn down work worth £1500 this week because the permission form hasnt arrived.

Anyone else having to wait longer then the 28 days?

Dave

 

[The Editor]

Hi all, my ops manual was sent to the CAA on the 26th March and I still havnt had anything back yet. What makes it worse is that its impossible to get hold of them even after speaking to someone for the CAA at Gatwick!!!! I have had to turn down work worth £1500 this week because the permission form hasnt arrived.

Anyone else having to wait longer then the 28 days?

Dave

Did YOU send it off or did your NQE send it off? I assume your SRG1320 went with it?

Some NQE's have been known to sit on the applications for a while and then send a bulk lot in!

 

[Heller792]

Euro USC Sent me an email on the 26th of March to notify me that it had been passed off and sent to the CAA

 

[The Editor]

Euro USC Sent me an email on the 26th of March to notify me that it had been passed off and sent to the CAA

Yes..... This is the same outfit that is still going directly against CAA instructions and insisting that additional flight assessment's are carried out even for replacement aircraft in the sub 7kg category for which they are charging.
In my opinion, this is criminal.

It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't send off your SRG1320 until April.
Sorry, but I have heard such awful feedback regarding that outfit nothing would surprise me.

 

[Heller792]

I have had an email from Euro saying that there is no longer a need to take a separate exam for each machine now and all that is needed is to update the ops manual and inform insurance. I agree, it was like saying you need a driving test for each car you buy

 

[IrishSights]

I have had an email from Euro saying that there is no longer a need to take a separate exam for each machine now and all that is needed is to update the ops manual and inform insurance. I agree, it was like saying you need a driving test for each car you buy

Heller, I'm with Eurosusc as well and I have not got an email regarding this. Was this very recent? This will save me some cash as they charge £200 extra for a flight test in N. Ireland, much to all our dismay here. Working on my Ops manual for a P2 and an Inspire.

 

[Heller792]

I will see if I can find it, it was also confirmed by the man who did my flight test. They now do 3 levels of pass and they want the CAA to incorporate that into the system for congested areas where only a 1st pilot pass will allow you to gain the congested area cert.

Irish Sights, My ops manual was also for a phantom and inspire, let me know if you need any info

 

[The Editor]

Heller, I'm with Eurosusc as well and I have not got an email regarding this. Was this very recent? This will save me some cash as they charge £200 extra for a flight test in N. Ireland, much to all our dismay here. Working on my Ops manual for a P2 and an Inspire.

My belief is they have been forced into accepting the situation otherwise nobody would use them. Their arrogance would/could be their downfall.

They insisted (quite rightly) that all CAA recommendations and regulations are adhered to except when it didn't suit them for financial reasons (in my opinion).

I would like to see written evidence that they have now fallen in line with CAA instructions.

 

[IrishSights]

Ok. I just been on with Eurousc. There is no change in their policy. If you want a full BNUC-S certificate then both aircraft have to be flight tested with the appropriate charges. For me here in N. Ireland its £550 for flight test + £150 for the extra aircraft +VAT. This is irrespective of the CAA requirement by weight class only. For the CAA, Ops manuals obviously are required to cover both aircraft.

So it depends on what we and/or the insurers want. A PFAW alone (the goal) or a full BNUC-S certification (the means). I think many will do the one test and only have the BNUC-S for one aircraft and apply direct to the CAA for any additional aircraft. For me I think I will go for both under BNUC-S. Its not a huge amount more, although it all adds up in the end, for me its around £1900 incl VAT.

 

[lake_flyer]

Heller, I'm with Eurosusc as well and I have not got an email regarding this. Was this very recent? This will save me some cash as they charge £200 extra for a flight test in N. Ireland, much to all our dismay here. Working on my Ops manual for a P2 and an Inspire.

Not trying to start a side topic here, but I'm sure more I1 pilots would like to use their P2 as a backup....

I'm curious if a P2 can pass the RPAS1 assessment at all. I wanted to have my P2 assessed as well, it's a lot cheaper to bring it as an extra craft when you have the I1 assessed. However, I just read the Assessment Specifications on Eurousc, and guess what:
AMC.RPA.G.5 Emergency descent Demonstrate in the test flight that the RPA is able to descent from maximum specified operating height to 20 m AGL within 36 seconds.

Unfortunately, since there's no way to get our P2's to descend any faster than 2m/sec, with the current software (software updates, as advised by manufacturer, are mandatory to install and test). Originally it was 4m/sec, then they brought down to 3 and 2, as you know.

If DJI would do the same to the I1 we are in trouble.
4m/sec descend is the minimum required for emergency descends.
I'm pretty sure (I guess..) that a CSC procedure to drop altitude fast enough to meet the specs is not allowed

My DJI pro dealer told me the P2, as is, will never get a RPAS1 certificate and that it would not be worth to try. IF you could get it to pass It would be regarded as a self built and then you would have to shell out 1900 pounds for the assessment.
But clearly it is in his best interest to say that, he'd rather sell I1's than P2's.

 

[IrishSights]

Many, many P2s have been tested and approved by Eurousc despite the spec above

 

[apsussex]

They were talking about this on the course, saying if you don`t go with them to do your second craft or even renew without going through them, it affects your insurance. Seems a little unrealistic to me. Also the timescale to receiving your PFAW is becoming worrying and just going to get longer and longer as its to my understannding only a handful of people work in the CAA offices or should I say.. Office!! Then you`ll see more and more people providing services without having a PFAW due to frustration of it all, and there being such a high demand for work in this sector. With no one to actually enforce this as CAA`s workflow is crazy high, I can see it becoming quite a mess really.

 

[Scotflieger]

AMC.RPA.G.5 Emergency descent Demonstrate in the test flight that the RPA is able to descent from maximum specified operating height to 20 m AGL within 36 seconds.

This seems to be an artificially imposed requirement by Eurousc outside the spirit of CAA CAP 722 Mar 15 which addresses safety not RPA performance.

Additionally, the latest CAA requirements are for you to be tested on one type within your weight category (0-7kg, 7-20kg) to be cleared to fly all RPA in that category. If you are tested on a 7-20kg then you will get an automatic permission to fly 0-7 kg as well. The only requirement is to resubmit your Operations Manual for each type for approval.

 

[lake_flyer]

I will see if I can find it, it was also confirmed by the man who did my flight test. They now do 3 levels of pass and they want the CAA to incorporate that into the system for congested areas where only a 1st pilot pass will allow you to gain the congested area cert.

Irish Sights, My ops manual was also for a phantom and inspire, let me know if you need any info

If you have anything you can share about the Inspire1 Ops manual, like a contents overview, or structure that would be fantastic. I need to start writing it but I don't have a clue how it should look like and where to begin. Eurousc offers a workshop for a

Many, many P2s have been tested and approved by Eurousc despite the spec above

That's great to read! Thanks.
So much is still unclear.

 

[IrishSights]

Not trying to start a side topic here, but I'm sure more I1 pilots would like to use their P2 as a backup....

I'm curious if a P2 can pass the RPAS1 assessment at all. I wanted to have my P2 assessed as well, it's a lot cheaper to bring it as an extra craft when you have the I1 assessed. However, I just read the Assessment Specifications on Eurousc, and guess what:
AMC.RPA.G.5 Emergency descent Demonstrate in the test flight that the RPA is able to descent from maximum specified operating height to 20 m AGL within 36 seconds.

Unfortunately, since there's no way to get our P2's to descend any faster than 2m/sec, with the current software (software updates, as advised by manufacturer, are mandatory to install and test). Originally it was 4m/sec, then they brought down to 3 and 2, as you know.

If DJI would do the same to the I1 we are in trouble.
4m/sec descend is the minimum required for emergency descends.
I'm pretty sure (I guess..) that a CSC procedure to drop altitude fast enough to meet the specs is not allowed

My DJI pro dealer told me the P2, as is, will never get a RPAS1 certificate and that it would not be worth to try. IF you could get it to pass It would be regarded as a self built and then you would have to shell out 1900 pounds for the assessment.
But clearly it is in his best interest to say that, he'd rather sell I1's than P2's.

I just reread that spec. It depends what the 'specified height' is. Say 50m decending to 20m in 36 sec is .8m/s is it not? Well under 2

 

[The Editor]

This seems to be an artificially imposed requirement by Eurousc outside the spirit of CAA CAP 722 Mar 15 which addresses safety not RPA performance.

Additionally, the latest CAA requirements are for you to be tested on one type within your weight category (0-7kg, 7-20kg) to be cleared to fly all RPA in that category. If you are tested on a 7-20kg then you will get an automatic permission to fly 0-7 kg as well. The only requirement is to resubmit your Operations Manual for each type for approval.

EXACTLY RIGHT! - EuroUSC were acting outside of direct CAA requirements. Like I say, when it suited them (financially) they ignored the CAA.
Your interpretation of the amendment to CAP722 is spot on.

 

[Scotflieger]

Your interpretation of the amendment to CAP722 is spot on.

It helps having (unofficially) passed my Ground School last week with Resource Group.

 

[axelz]

I have had an email from Euro saying that there is no longer a need to take a separate exam for each machine now and all that is needed is to update the ops manual and inform insurance. I agree, it was like saying you need a driving test for each car you buy

That's interesting as when I queried with them a few weeks ago since hearing of this, they said I must still have separate flight exam per machine. When did you get that response from them? This was their response as of 8/5/15, which was disappointing but hopefully no longer the case.

Any aircraft you wish to fly commercially need to be taken in the flight examination, if we wish to have them on your BNUC-S™ qualification.

 

[lake_flyer]

I just reread that spec. It depends what the 'specified height' is. Say 50m decending to 20m in 36 sec is .8m/s is it not? Well under 2

Yeah, it is unclear what the mean with maximum specified operating height, that would be 120m for every type of drone since they all can go higher.
Or, the maximum specified operating height is determined by the max descend speed, so with a P2 you couldn't go higher than 72+20=92meters.
That could make sense.

 

[IrishSights]

I will see if I can find it, it was also confirmed by the man who did my flight test. They now do 3 levels of pass and they want the CAA to incorporate that into the system for congested areas where only a 1st pilot pass will allow you to gain the congested area cert.

Irish Sights, My ops manual was also for a phantom and inspire, let me know if you need any info

Sent you a PM