UK UK Pilot travelling to Miami, USA

[A-SCOTT85]

Hi all,

I am a NQE qualified CAA PFAW authorised drone pilot based in the UK.

I have filming job (normal camera not aerial camera) coming up in Miami, USA and there is a small UAS filming requirement in the brief.

Here are some other elements in the equation:

• Technically i'm not "working" in the USA because the company is not based there
• The shoot is on private property

Does anyone know what the rules are here and if there is any way I can make this work?

Thanks in advance!

A-SCOTT85

 

[The Editor]

Hi all,

I am a NQE qualified CAA PFAW authorised drone pilot based in the UK.

I have filming job (normal camera not aerial camera) coming up in Miami, USA and there is a small UAS filming requirement in the brief.

Here are some other elements in the equation:

• Technically i'm not "working" in the USA because the company is not based there
• The shoot is on private property

Does anyone know what the rules are here and if there is any way I can make this work?

Thanks in advance!

A-SCOTT85

Hmmmm.....you ARE working in the USA if you (by your own admission) have a 'filming job' in Miami.
Obviously your PFAW is meaningless and not recognised in the United States as it is UK permission only and bound by the Air Navigation Order.
I would think you have two, rather large(ish) problems.
1. Answering "No" to any immigration question that you will not be working during your stay within the United States
2. Undertaking commercial UAV activity within the US without a valid 333 or having requisite insurance in place that will cover you for 'work' whilst there.

I will bake you a nice sponge cake with a file in and send it to you in Guantanamo Bay.

 

[A-SCOTT85]

Hmmmm.....you ARE working in the USA if you (by your own admission) have a 'filming job' in Miami.
Obviously your PFAW is meaningless and not recognised in the United States as it is UK permission only and bound by the Air Navigation Order.
I would think you have two, rather large(ish) problems.
1. Answering "No" to any immigration question that you will not be working during your stay within the United States
2. Undertaking commercial UAV activity within the US without a valid 333 or having requisite insurance in place that will cover you for 'work' whilst there.

I will bake you a nice sponge cake with a file in and send it to you in Guantanamo Bay.

I will be travelling to the USA as a Visitor for Business using my B1/B2 visa. The most important factor is I will not be paid by an organization within the US.

As I do not know anything about the 333 or how it applies to business visitors who are not conducting domestic commercial work I was hoping for someone to help with a workaround or bring some light (constructively) to the situation.

 

[pixl45]

If you're flying for compensation (now or later), you need a FAA 333 exemption. Period. It doesn't matter where the company that hired you is based -- it only matters where the flying took place.

There's quite a few licensed pilots on this site from Florida... I'm sure one could help you out.

 

[A-SCOTT85]

If you're flying for compensation (now or later), you need a FAA 333 exemption. Period. It doesn't matter where the company that hired you is based -- it only matters where the flying took place.

There's quite a few licensed pilots on this site from Florida... I'm sure one could help you out.

Thank you pixl45.

I will start making contacts with Florida pilots to gauge that possibility.

Does anyone know wether it is possible for a UK pilot to get a 333 and what that entails. Is any of the NQE or PFAW stuff usable in the case?

 

[The Editor]

I will be travelling to the USA as a Visitor for Business using my B1/B2 visa. The most important factor is I will not be paid by an organization within the US.

As I do not know anything about the 333 or how it applies to business visitors who are not conducting domestic commercial work I was hoping for someone to help with a workaround or bring some light (constructively) to the situation.

OK, I got it (sorry for being non constructive ).
Unfortunately your RPAS qualification (NQE issued) is not valid not does it hold in gravitas for FAA purposes.
The 333 holders on here will be able to explain what is involved however, I maybe wrong on this but...... My understanding is you would need to be US resident (as I say I maybe mistaken on that - I'm UK PFAW as well).
The other thing to consider is........
Are you travelling with your RPAS to the States?
If so, as I am sure you are aware, your aircraft serial number(s) are lodged with your liability carrier and the policy is issued for commercial use. Does your specific policy cover you for worldwide commercial activity including the USA?
If so, and if travelling with your own aircraft, my understanding is that all commercially used RPAS now require their own tail number/registration in order for them to be utilised on a commercial basis within the US NAS.

 

[A-SCOTT85]

OK, I got it (sorry for being non constructive ).
Unfortunately your RPAS qualification (NQE issued) is not valid not does it hold in gravitas for FAA purposes.
The 333 holders on here will be able to explain what is involved however, I maybe wrong on this but...... My understanding is you would need to be US resident (as I say I maybe mistaken on that - I'm UK PFAW as well).
The other thing to consider is........
Are you travelling with your RPAS to the States?
If so, as I am sure you are aware, your aircraft serial number(s) are lodged with your liability carrier and the policy is issued for commercial use. Does your specific policy cover you for worldwide commercial activity including the USA?
If so, and if travelling with your own aircraft, my understanding is that all commercially used RPAS now require their own tail number/registration in order for them to be utilised on a commercial basis within the US NAS.

Thank you. And yes very constructive!

At this stage I am starting to consider bringing in a Miami based operator for this part of the shoot.

If anyone has any good recommendations i'd love to talk to them!

 

[SanCap]

I am FAA approved, a licensed pilot and Insured, I am about 2.5 hours away from Miami. If I can help please contact me.

 

[Dennis VanHoose]

Hi all,

I am a NQE qualified CAA PFAW authorised drone pilot based in the UK.

I have filming job (normal camera not aerial camera) coming up in Miami, USA and there is a small UAS filming requirement in the brief.

Here are some other elements in the equation:

• Technically i'm not "working" in the USA because the company is not based there
• The shoot is on private property

Does anyone know what the rules are here and if there is any way I can make this work?

Thanks in advance!

A-SCOTT85

Hi A-Scott85, I'm not a licenced pilot or have a 333, but I have lived in the Miami area for 60 plus years. I own an Inspire V.2 X3 also an Osmo handle for the camera, (delivering tomorrow). I have done video production over the years and can help you out with location info if you need. I live near Fort Lauderdale but work in Miami near the Beach.

 

[A-SCOTT85]

Thank you everyone for your input. After some very informative conversations with @SanCap he has discovered after speaking to Miami Approach Control that this particular shoot will not be possible as it conflicts with Miami's class B airspace.

A great example of mission planning due-diligence.

 

[SanCap]

Thank you everyone for your input. After some very informative conversations with @SanCap he has discovered after speaking to Miami Approach Control that this particular shoot will not be possible as it conflicts with Miami's class B airspace.

A great example of mission planning due-diligence.

If any one in the Miami area knows how to do a legal aerial shoot in the area of the Miami River and 95, please let me know. I would sure like to learn how to do this. I am sure I could apply for another COA for that area but that could take up to 90 days.

 

[The Editor]

If any one in the Miami area knows how to do a legal aerial shoot in the area of the Miami River and 95, please let me know. I would sure like to learn how to do this. I am sure I could apply for another COA for that area but that could take up to 90 days.

Hi Jim, I think you may struggle since to my knowledge MIA is a class B with a Mode C veil imposed.
That's going to be surface to 10,000 feet and extend 30NM outwards.

 

[SanCap]

Hi Jim, I think you may struggle since to my knowledge MIA is a class B with a Mode C veil imposed.
That's going to be surface to 10,000 feet and extend 30NM outwards.

Their approach control told me their Class B extends 6 Statute miles out (in the area of concern) and My COA says 5 Nautical Miles which equates to me being inside the nautical mile limit by .2 NM. So close yet so far!

 

[The Editor]

Their approach control told me their Class B extends 6 Statute miles out (in the area of concern) and My COA says 5 Nautical Miles which equates to me being inside the nautical mile limit by .2 NM. So close yet so far!

Yup but it also has a Mode C veil which will extend standard limits out to 30NM.
Mode C veil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unless I am missing something MIA comes under one of the 37 (probably more now).
You guys will know best whether a tail number allocation means you would also need to abide by the mode C regulation of transponder on board but it sure looks that way.

 

[SanCap]

Yup but it also has a Mode C veil which will extend standard limits out to 30NM.
Mode C veil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unless I am missing something MIA comes under one of the 37 (probably more now).
You guys will know best whether a tail number allocation means you would also need to abide by the mode C regulation of transponder on board but it sure looks that way.

I think you are correct, I think it states what you said in FAR 91 appendix D.

 

[jhardway]

Editor I think when you bring up the mode c veil, its a very interesting topic that can be look at in many ways. I agree with you mainly because if the FAA is going to stay true to there rules then you would have to somehow waiver around it. However like many issues in the UAV FAA 333 rule world I feel the mode c veil is one of these things that you will get mixed responses from with ATC.

In reality I do not think anyone truly knows, and even though the mode c veil is a topic on my radar. I live within a B class airport it has not been an issue, nor has it been talked about as an issue. I have had conversations with the local FSDO about doing operations with in these areas and that has not been mentioned. I feel it is one of these things when it is a situation that is convenient for an FAA person they will use it when needed.

Miami River and 95, that is a very tight city dwelling area, there is a park right to the west of 95, but then you would have to get city or Dade County permission. The distance to the center of the airport is 5mi on the nose. With the current 333 limitations I do not think it would be easy to pass. It's probably doable but I am not sure how you would go about working it.

I would say contact the local Miami FSDO office, tell them what you need to do and then ask them how to go about doing it. I have a feeling it will end up in a COA, if so then it may only take about 2 weeks. Again it all depends on who's desk it ends up on.

 

[SanCap]

Editor I think when you bring up the mode c veil, its a very interesting topic that can be look at in many ways. I agree with you mainly because if the FAA is going to stay true to there rules then you would have to somehow waiver around it. However like many issues in the UAV FAA 333 rule world I feel the mode c veil is one of these things that you will get mixed responses from with ATC.

In reality I do not think anyone truly knows, and even though the mode c veil is a topic on my radar. I live within a B class airport it has not been an issue, nor has it been talked about as an issue. I have had conversations with the local FSDO about doing operations with in these areas and that has not been mentioned. I feel it is one of these things when it is a situation that is convenient for an FAA person they will use it when needed.

Miami River and 95, that is a very tight city dwelling area, there is a park right to the west of 95, but then you would have to get city or Dade County permission. The distance to the center of the airport is 5mi on the nose. With the current 333 limitations I do not think it would be easy to pass. It's probably doable but I am not sure how you would go about working it.

I would say contact the local Miami FSDO office, tell them what you need to do and then ask them how to go about doing it. I have a feeling it will end up in a COA, if so then it may only take about 2 weeks. Again it all depends on who's desk it ends up on.

You are absolutely correct when you say that you will get mixed responses from within the FAA! I contacted Tampa FSDO about another flight I needed to do that was in the Miami FSDO area. My FSDO UAS inspector in Tampa said just call the tower and let them know your intentions. I did that and was flatly denied, and was referred to Danielle Corbet in the Miami FSDO (954-641-6117). She told me that I needed a separate COA and I could ask for a multi county area for the COA, but I should call the Southern Region Head honcho in Atlanta (404-305-5577). I was flatly denied in regards to a multi county COA, and was back to getting a COA for my intended flight and applied for one. We will see how long it takes. I understand this is all new for the FAA but the misinformation within the FAA is overwhelming. One hand does not know what the other is doing and there is no consensus in what is the proper way to do things legally. This is a huge learning experience for all of us.

 

[The Editor]

Some good discussions here and it will be interesting to see how everything pans out with the FAA (eventually).
What I find strange is over here in the UK the CAA and ATC have to treat commercial UAV operators with what's known as 'equivalence'. This means that a certified operator requesting permission to operate in controlled airspace must be treated the same as any other aircraft and therefore will not be denied permission - there maybe logistical juggling or permission maybe granted say to only 200 feet but there will not be a flat denial.
It's interesting to see how different countries aviation authorities operate.

 

[pixl45]

Some good discussions here and it will be interesting to see how everything pans out with the FAA (eventually).
What I find strange is over here in the UK the CAA and ATC have to treat commercial UAV operators with what's known as 'equivalence'. This means that a certified operator requesting permission to operate in controlled airspace must be treated the same as any other aircraft and therefore will not be denied permission - there maybe logistical juggling or permission maybe granted say to only 200 feet but there will not be a flat denial.
It's interesting to see how different countries aviation authorities operate.

I was in Southeast Florida for a month over Christmas, and found that there was virtually no flyable space -- so many airports, so much restricted space. There's a sliver of beach that's legal to overfly up around Boca, but municipal regs prevent take off/landing. There are a few RC clubs in the area, which if you join wil allow you some unrestricted flight, but the area is quite small. There's a guy that chases cruise ships in and out of Fort Lauderdale harbour with his Inspire, and he is certainly in strictly controlled airspace -- the Fort Lauderdale Airport is right there. Idiots abound. Plus there are regular heli-tours in the area that fly quite low.

 

[SanCap]

Some good discussions here and it will be interesting to see how everything pans out with the FAA (eventually).
What I find strange is over here in the UK the CAA and ATC have to treat commercial UAV operators with what's known as 'equivalence'. This means that a certified operator requesting permission to operate in controlled airspace must be treated the same as any other aircraft and therefore will not be denied permission - there maybe logistical juggling or permission maybe granted say to only 200 feet but there will not be a flat denial.
It's interesting to see how different countries aviation authorities operate.

Your UK system makes sense, our FAA treats our copters as aircraft, I have to have a 333 exemption, pilots license and communication devices. I have to file notams and obey airspace regulations so why not let us operate in the NAS like manned aircraft with some sensible regulations.