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UK Would I be wasting my money with a PfCO in the UK?

B

BCF

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Here's my problem. I've been flying quads for some 3 years and a few months ago upgraded from my P3Pro to an Inspire 1 Pro - mainly for the increased dynamic range over the P3 and ability to vary aperture, etc, due to my long term interest in photography.

Having retired from the police after 30 years and being something of a perfectionist with my hobbies, together with the possible future registration/regulation of UAVs and pilots, I'm about to pull the trigger on the 3 day course giving me a basic 'qualification' in flying UAVs. But for a bit extra cash I could extend my training and incorporate an Ops Manual/OSC and hopefully get a PfCO to enable me to do some commercial work on my own and in my own time (e.g. weddings - which I have done many with a stills camera, real estate, etc).

Now here's the conundrum - several members on this forum have reported that the CAA do not like giving a PfCO to pilots who operate quads, like me. Others say to the contrary. So, should I stick with the cheaper basic qualification and carry on as a hobbyist or spend some more cash (training, insurance) and a lot of time and effort to produce an Ops Manual/OSC for which, in the end, the CAA may well say "Sorry but no built in redundancy with your Inspire 1Pro so no!."

I'd be very grateful to hear from UK members who have personal experience re this matter.

Many thanks in anticipation.
 
Whilst the CAA might not like quads due to no motor/propeller redundancy there is no problem getting PfCO using them (subject to the appropriate safety procedures in your Ops manual, many of which are common sense). There are plenty of people/companies using Phantom's and Inspires (myself included) with PfCO.

However, I believe that getting on OSC is extremely unlikely unless you have at least six motors props.

The question you need to ask yourself is do you want to do this commercially (valuable consideration) so even doing a job in return for a drink is classed as commercial. If yes, then I would recommend going down the PfCO route. One advantage is that you can then insure your gear which covers any theft/crash etc (subject to flying according to your Ops manual).
 
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As far as I'm aware, there's absolutley no issue with the CAA issuing PfCO's to people with quads like the I1, or even smaller things like phantoms (a friend has literally just recieved his PfCo in the last couple of weeks using a Phantom 3) - where the confusion might have arisen is over the Safety Cases for flying closer to people/objects not in your control - that's where the CAA is more cautious and prefers hex/octa's with lots of redundancy.

The real things that determine if you should go down the route of ground school/ops manual/flight test/PfCO/Insurance are:

- are you more comfortable having done the training and having the bit of paper, if so then do it anyway, irrespective of the next couple of points...
- do you want to do the training & qualification anyway (just 'cause you can :) ) , then do it anyway.
- are you going to stick with hobby/recreational flying, or are you going to sell your services? Selling obviously means you should go the full PfCO route.
- If you want to sell your services, then it obviously adds a level of additional expense initially in the form of doing your PfCO, then PfCO annual renewal fees and insurance which will add up to several hundred quid a year. Are you able to eat those fees, or can you find enough work to recoup them and hopefully make a profit too....? If you can't eat the costs and can't recoup them, then probably best to think about sticking to recreational flying and save yourself a few bob to go towards lenses for your I1 or your next quad.

By the way, I appreciate that different training organisations do things differently, but doesn't your 3 day 'basic qualification' already include the flight test, help creating your ops manual and applying to the CAA for your PfCO? If it doesn't then all it really does is just give you a bit of 'ground school' (which, while not knowing what it's costing you, doesn't sound great value for money)! You might get better value for your time and money checking out a few of the NQE's and finding one that can help you through it all - might be cheaper in terms of time and money!
 
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Thank you guys for the quick response - very much appreciated.

I'm reassured to hear from both of you re the no issue with the CAA regarding quads. Maybe my confusion arose by my assimilating PfCO and OSC.
jborden
- the insurance cover would be a bonus.
NickU
- yes I would be more intrinsically comfortable having done the training.
- I do want to do the training and qualification. It will keep my mind active and, as you say, 'because I can'.
- I'll stick with recreational flying regardless but the ability to occasionally sell my services would be advantageous.
- the fees aren't really an issue and can comfortably be covered. I already have several Olympus lenses for the I1 Pro so equipment capital expenditure is virtually covered.
- the various training organisations I've looked at do indeed, as you allude to, cover the theory, flight test, and some help towards Ops Manual preparation (some more than others!).

Thank you once again guys. Anyone else?
 
BCF said:
Thank you guys for the quick response - very much appreciated.

I'm reassured to hear from both of you re the no issue with the CAA regarding quads. Maybe my confusion arose by my assimilating PfCO and OSC.
jborden
- the insurance cover would be a bonus.
NickU
- yes I would be more intrinsically comfortable having done the training.
- I do want to do the training and qualification. It will keep my mind active and, as you say, 'because I can'.
- I'll stick with recreational flying regardless but the ability to occasionally sell my services would be advantageous.
- the fees aren't really an issue and can comfortably be covered. I already have several Olympus lenses for the I1 Pro so equipment capital expenditure is virtually covered.
- the various training organisations I've looked at do indeed, as you allude to, cover the theory, flight test, and some help towards Ops Manual preparation (some more than others!).

Thank you once again guys. Anyone else?
Click to expand...


OSC is Operating Safety Case, which is basically your way of telling the CAA how you are going to fly and manage sUAV's safely and in accordance with their regulations. An OSC has to be submitted with your application to the CAA for your PfCO. It's also known as your Operations Manual. If you want enhanced flight permissions, such as night flying BVLOS etc. then you would have to submit a OSC to the CAA to have those permissions granted or refused. Regards quad rotor sUAV's I obtained my PfCO with a Phantom 3 Pro.
 
From your answers then BCF, don't waste your time n money on a simpler basic course, find yourself a good PfCO NQE and go for the full hog outright. It'll be less frustrating, cheaper and easier in the long run for you. If you're a perfectionist, then you'll probably not have much trouble with any of the ground school, ops manual, or flight test.

Good luck & enjoy it :)
 
Once again thank you to all responders - your advice is very welcome and much appreciated.

I've looked at several training companies, one of which is very local to me and commutable but home distractions would be an issue. There is a company which provides full board included in their package and a day's instruction in Ops Manual prepararion, and was recommended by a commercial UAV services web site, so home distractions would not be an issue, and have only had 2 student failures out of 600 undertaking their course.

Some companies provide pre-read material - some full course material, others not so much. Is it any wonder my brain's frazzled contemplating the best way forward ?
 
BCF said:
Once again thank you to all responders - your advice is very welcome and much appreciated.

I've looked at several training companies, one of which is very local to me and commutable but home distractions would be an issue. There is a company which provides full board included in their package and a day's instruction in Ops Manual prepararion, and was recommended by a commercial UAV services web site, so home distractions would not be an issue, and have only had 2 student failures out of 600 undertaking their course.

Some companies provide pre-read material - some full course material, others not so much. Is it any wonder my brain's frazzled contemplating the best way forward ?
Click to expand...
As long as you don't go anywhere near EuroUSC you should be fine :p(well you can't really since they have stopped trading in the UK after their NQE status was pulled by the CAA).
I can second Rusta - a good bunch of guys and very thorough.
 
I took my RPQ-s with Resource Group. At the time the course was delivered by means of an online learning portal, a 2 day classroom based course and exam and then the flight assessment. I think they offer a couple of different course delivery styles now though. Found them to be great, lots of assistance when needed and very approachable and knowledgeable staff. The whole process was great for me. It ended up taking me about about 6 months to complete as 2 flight assessments were scrubbed due to bad weather and I had to re-organise. I'd highly recommend them :) As the Editor said though, as long as you stay away from EuroUSC you'll be fine.

Off topic, what's happening with those who got caught up in the mess? Anyone know?
 
Just to echo the above. I would recommend RUSTA and I use an Inspire with no problems. You will just struggle to get an exemption from the standard safe distances with a quad.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
 
I want to say thank you very much to all members who provided their invaluable advice and information.

As an update and, I suppose, to provide closure, this afternoon I signed up for the full course hopefully leading to a PfCO with RUSTA. I've started their
e learning package in preparation for my course.
 
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Hi all after reading all the above posts which are very informative does anybody know of a good NQE in the North West UK that they would or have used I already own a phantom 3 and inspire 1 so would not need flight training in the package thanks for any advice that might be given
 
Ianl said:
Hi all after reading all the above posts which are very informative does anybody know of a good NQE in the North West UK that they would or have used I already own a phantom 3 and inspire 1 so would not need flight training in the package thanks for any advice that might be given
Click to expand...
There is no flight training in any package.
There is however a mandatory flight assessment which will be observed by up to two flight inspectors and will involve flight planning based on sectional air charts, risk assessments, site survey and several emergency procedures which must be actioned without any mistakes as that entails a fail overall.
 
Hi thanks for reply in at least one package I think somewere down South I was reading did include at a extra price flight instruction as a add on ive read so many that's why I'm struggling whether to travel or try and do it from a recommended school closer to were I live bit of a minefield choosing, price differs a bit to and from experience I have learnt that higher doesn't allways guarantee better
 

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