TB50 Car Charger?

[Donnie Frank]

Not only is your screenshot of an AC device (as I said), but it's not even a charging hub. It's a single battery "fast charger." How on Earth this device even made it into this conversation regarding car chargers is beyond me. A "charging hub" is generally a device that charges multiple batteries. Don't be fooled by ChinEnglish vernacular. A single charger is NOT a "hub." Surely, you know this.

D

 

[mmarian]

Not only is your screenshot of an AC device (as I said), but it's not even a charging hub. It's a single battery "fast charger." How on Earth this device even made it into this conversation regarding car chargers is beyond me. A "charging hub" is generally a device that charges multiple batteries. Don't be fooled by ChinEnglish vernacular. A single charger is NOT a "hub." Surely, you know this.

D

With all due respect, you need to pay a bit more attention, Donnie.
The Inspire2 charger consists of two parts. The 180W power supply has 120/240V AC input and 26.1V 6.9Amp DC output. The DC output lead is then plugged into the charging hub ( effectively a charger ) which holds 4 TB50 batteries, charging 2 at the time. On my screen shot the first one there is the AC/DC power supply, incorrectly named in ChinEnglish venacular "Charger", and the second one there is correctly named "Charging Hub". These two items are included in the Inspire 2 kit.
So my idea was to connect the charging hub to the 27V/10Amp DC step-up unit mentioned in my previous post. This unit would simply replace the AC/DC 180W DJI power suply when I would want to charge the TB50 batteries with my car battery, (supported by alternator with the engine idling). Am I making sense now?

 

[Donnie Frank]

With all due respect, you need to pay a bit more attention, Donnie.
The Inspire2 charger consists of two parts. The 180W power supply has 120/240V AC input and 26.1V 6.9Amp DC output. The DC output lead is then plugged into the charging hub ( effectively a charger ) which holds 4 TB50 batteries, charging 2 at the time.

The charger sources 180 watts. Period. If you plug into a hub that charges 2 or 4 or 6 or 8 batteries, that 180 watts is split between those batteries. So even bringing up the AC 180 watt charger is completely outside the scope of this conversation. Your screen shot is very ambiguous. If it shows a "hub," there is no clear delineation between the AC charger and the hub. You should show JUST the hub. That said...

Generally these DJI hubs SPLIT the power between batteries instead of PROVIDING power. They generally charge in series, NOT parallel. But we don't know, because the opportunity to be crystal clear was squandered on an ambiguous screen shot that had to be researched to even understand what it was. Turns out, your screenshot had THREE devices. Which one are you referring to??? How about posting JUST that item WITH the specifications or a LINK????

On my screen shot the first one there is the AC/DC power supply, incorrectly named in ChinEnglish venacular "Charger", and the second one there is correctly named "Charging Hub".

So....TWO different devices (THREE actually). Why list the AC device in the context of a "car charger" conversation????? Clear as mud. Is it a serial charger? Parallel??? Who knows??? You were too lazy to link to the ONE item germane to this conversation. The other two items have absolutely NOTHING to do with "car charging DJI batteries." Not a thing.

These two items are included in the Inspire 2 kit.
So my idea was to connect the charging hub to the 27V/10Amp DC step-up unit mentioned in my previous post. This unit would simply replace the AC/DC 180W DJI power suply when I would want to charge the TB50 batteries with my car battery, (supported by alternator with the engine idling). Am I making sense now?

Yes, makes sense now. But is this charging hub a serial or parallel device? Based on the input power spec of (26.1VDC x 6.9A = 180.09 watts), you're able to either quick charge one battery at a time, or super slow charge (90 watts each) TWO batteries at a time, which is well over 2 hours no matter how you slice it. So if you're on a large mapping job or film job, I don't think have to tell you that that is NOT going to cut it. That is NOT a solution. The entire point of MY charger - which works directly off the car battery - is that I can charge THREE batteries at a time @ 100 watts/each (or 180 watts/each if I so choose) to stay up and running all day without interruption. So when you made your suggestion that either of these devices were a "better" idea or "viable alternative," I was confused as hel because your idea doesn't even come close to solving the problem. It's not even in the ballpark. It was as if I asked "What is 2 x 2?" and you answered, "Blue." I concede that your suggestion is better than a cigarette lighter charger, but not by much.

D

 

[mmarian]

The charger sources 180 watts. Period. If you plug into a hub that charges 2 or 4 or 6 or 8 batteries, that 180 watts is split between those batteries. So even bringing up the AC 180 watt charger is completely outside the scope of this conversation. Your screen shot is very ambiguous. If it shows a "hub," there is no clear delineation between the AC charger and the hub. You should show JUST the hub. That said...

Generally these DJI hubs SPLIT the power between batteries instead of PROVIDING power. They generally charge in series, NOT parallel. But we don't know, because the opportunity to be crystal clear was squandered on an ambiguous screen shot that had to be researched to even understand what it was. Turns out, your screenshot had THREE devices. Which one are you referring to??? How about posting JUST that item WITH the specifications or a LINK????

View attachment 32672


So....TWO different devices (THREE actually). Why list the AC device in the context of a "car charger" conversation????? Clear as mud. Is it a serial charger? Parallel??? Who knows??? You were too lazy to link to the ONE item germane to this conversation. The other two items have absolutely NOTHING to do with "car charging DJI batteries." Not a thing.





Yes, makes sense now. But is this charging hub a serial or parallel device? Based on the input power spec of (26.1VDC x 6.9A = 180.09 watts), you're able to either quick charge one battery at a time, or super slow charge (90 watts each) TWO batteries at a time, which is well over 2 hours no matter how you slice it. So if you're on a large mapping job or film job, I don't think have to tell you that that is NOT going to cut it. That is NOT a solution. The entire point of MY charger - which works directly off the car battery - is that I can charge THREE batteries at a time @ 100 watts/each (or 180 watts/each if I so choose) to stay up and running all day without interruption. So when you made your suggestion that either of these devices were a "better" idea or "viable alternative," I was confused as hel because your idea doesn't even come close to solving the problem. It's not even in the ballpark. It was as if I asked "What is 2 x 2?" and you answered, "Blue." I concede that your suggestion is better than a cigarette lighter charger, but not by much.

D

No reason getting wound up, Donnie. This discussion was about car charging or a car charger for Inspire2 TB50 batteries. Someone posted a cigarette lighter charger with a lead and dedicated connector for one TB50 battery, as one such option. I found it to be not very useful because I2 needs 2 batteries to fly, so this charger would take about 2.5 to 3 hrs to charge 2 batteries, one after the other. I was looking for a bit better solution and hence asked a question if using the Inspire 2 DJI charging hub plugged into a DC step up 12V to 27V 10Amp regulator would be a bit better solution. That was all. The DJI AC/DC powersupply was mentioned in my post purely as referrence for choosing a step up regulator with car battery voltage input and with simillar output hence the 12 to 27V 10Amps.
FWIW this DJI 180W powersupply which they call Charger "IN2C180" is supplied together with Charging Hub "IN2CH" with Inspire2 kit as standard. Charging a pair of 2 batteries simultaniously (at 90W each) takes about 1.5 hrs. If there is about 30% left in the batteries to start with, it takes about an hour. I assumed, provided my idea with the step up regulator would work and the hub would "take it", that it should charge the 2 batteries faster than with the DJI 180W powersuply because the step up regulator (I posted link to) would provide about 270W to the hub instead of 180W.
I am not saying and have never said that this would be better charging solution than what you have. I am looking myself at how to charge TB50 batteries from car battery and I thought that this might work. All what I would need is the step up regulator for about $30 and a lead with a matching barrel plug for the hub. That I thought would be quite elegant and not expensive car charging solution. That's all. Sorry if I made you upset, not my intention at all. I did not know that you were not familiar with Inspire2 drone and with how its dedicated charger consisting of powersuply and charging hub works..
Here is link with useful info:

Buy Inspire 2/Ronin 2 Battery Charging Hub - DJI Store

Shop for Inspire 2/Ronin 2 Battery Charging Hub on the official DJI Online Store. Find great deals and buy DJI products online with quick and convenient delivery!

store.dji.com

 

[Donnie Frank]

No reason getting wound up, Donnie.

Touché. I just hate these conversations where we're talking past one another. It's frustrating.

This discussion was about car charging or a car charger for Inspire2 TB50 batteries. Someone posted a cigarette lighter charger with a lead and dedicated connector for one TB50 battery, as one such option. I found it to be not very useful because I2 needs 2 batteries to fly, so this charger would take about 2.5 to 3 hrs to charge 2 batteries, one after the other.

Correct.

I was looking for a bit better solution and hence asked a question if using the Inspire 2 DJI charging hub plugged into a DC step up 12V to 27V 10Amp regulator would be a bit better solution.

The only way to know if the 12VDC->27VDC device works in concert with the DJI hub is to FULLY UNDERSTAND BOTH devices. And in order for THAT to happen, you would have to post complete specifications for BOTH of these devices - not just links to Amazon.

Glaring questions; What is the input CURRENT and output CURRENT of your Amazon device? Amazon lists a myriad of current (amperage) ratings (which appear to be output current), but how does it achieve these different ratings? How does it LIMIT current to 1A or 2A??? I see NOTHING in that Amazon ad to show this is facilitated.

More questions....
Are these myriad of current ratings at the INPUT side or the OUTPUT side??? The ad suggests that this is the output current, but then input current would be 22.5A, which would melt those wimpy #14-looking wires. They could save all all a bunch of headache by simply listing the WATTAGE ratings, which would be the same at both ends.

But then the ad says this:



So now we're back to assuming that the 10A rating is the INPUT current. Or we have to assume that this device somehow magically has transcended Ohm's Law and ergo has an output wattage that is greater than its input wattage. Free electricity!!!



More questions....
Is the DJI hub a serial or parallel device? It's been my experience that DJI PASSIVE hubs are always serial. But who knows??? Since the Inspire 2 REQUIRES 2 batteries, I would assume that it charges the batteries in parallel. But I'm not sure.

So the only way we could even remotely entertain the possibility that this combination of Amazon device in concert with the DJI hub as a "solution" is if we make a couple assumptions.

Assumption #1; The Amazon device is 10A on the output side. But see above. There are inconsistencies.
Assumption #2; The DJI hub charges the batteries in parallel, not series.

Based on these assumptions, the math looks good! 270 watts / 2 = 135 watts per battery. This would be a respectable charge.

But there's a problem....

270 watts / 12 = 22.5A on the input side. This would require #10 conductor (wire). Looking at the photo, these do NOT look like #10 conductors to me:


Truth be told, they don't even look like #12 conductors. They look like #14 to me. But who knows?!?! Right? But again, there's this:


#14 wire is rated at 15A, which aligns with my observation AND the required fuse! CONFUSING!!



I hope this explains why I was "wound up." LOTS of blank spaces....LOTS of assumptions....LOTS of missing information. Dare I say even CONFLICTING information in the Amazon ad. Their math is NOT adding up! Dollars to doughnuts they are over-selling the output ratings. I would bet 5 bucks that the output rating is NOT up to 10A. Doing simple Ohm's Law math and assuming an input current limit of 15A, output is going to be closer to 6A-7A with the engine off, and maybe as high as 7.7ish Amps with the engine running.

That was all. The DJI AC/DC powersupply was mentioned in my post purely as referrence for choosing a step up regulator with car battery voltage input and with simillar output hence the 12 to 27V 10Amps.

10A on which end? Input or output? The ad suggests 10A on the output side. If so, then that is max output, which means there is going to be a duty rating. More than likely you can't just run this boost converter 24/7. More than likely it will have a duty rating that may be as low as 50%....and probably not any higher than 80%.

And there still exists that pesky, looming question; How does this device LIMIT current to 1A or 2A or 3A at the output side???

FWIW this DJI 180W powersupply which they call Charger "IN2C180" is supplied together with Charging Hub "IN2CH" with Inspire2 kit as standard.

Correct.

Charging a pair of 2 batteries simultaniously (at 90W each) takes about 1.5 hrs.

Okay....so the charger IS a parallel charger, yes???

If there is about 30% left in the batteries to start with, it takes about an hour. I assumed, provided my idea with the step up regulator would work and the hub would "take it", that it should charge the 2 batteries faster than with the DJI 180W powersuply because the step up regulator (I posted link to) would provide about 270W to the hub instead of 180W.

Your math is sound. But you are assuming that 10A is the output current, which would put input current around 22.5A. If this is true, I would be very concerned with those conductors (wires). The input wires should be #10 or better. But they tell you to install a 15A fuse on the input side. Confusing. Conflicting.

I am not saying and have never said that this would be better charging solution than what you have. I am looking myself at how to charge TB50 batteries from car battery and I thought that this might work. All what I would need is the step up regulator for about $30 and a lead with a matching barrel plug for the hub.

True.

That I thought would be quite elegant and not expensive car charging solution. That's all. Sorry if I made you upset, not my intention at all.

I just got frustrated. I apologize.

I did not know that you were not familiar with Inspire2 drone and with how its dedicated charger consisting of powersuply and charging hub works..

I am not familiar with the Inspire 2 at all, which was one of the sources of frustration. That's why I wanted specifications on all the devices you suggested.

Here is link with useful info:

Buy Inspire 2/Ronin 2 Battery Charging Hub - DJI Store

Shop for Inspire 2/Ronin 2 Battery Charging Hub on the official DJI Online Store. Find great deals and buy DJI products online with quick and convenient delivery!

store.dji.com

According to DJI, this is a parallel/serial device:



So while this kind of looks good on paper, there are a couple of problems (as I have indicated above). If you are going to try this, my strong suggestion would be to monitor the temperature of those input wires. I would also monitor charge times. Mathematically, some things are just not adding up.

D

 

[mmarian]

Touché. I just hate these conversations where we're talking past one another. It's frustrating.





Correct.




The only way to know if the 12VDC->27VDC device works in concert with the DJI hub is to FULLY UNDERSTAND BOTH devices. And in order for THAT to happen, you would have to post complete specifications for BOTH of these devices - not just links to Amazon.

Glaring questions; What is the input CURRENT and output CURRENT of your Amazon device? Amazon lists a myriad of current (amperage) ratings (which appear to be output current), but how does it achieve these different ratings? How does it LIMIT current to 1A or 2A??? I see NOTHING in that Amazon ad to show this is facilitated.

More questions....
Are these myriad of current ratings at the INPUT side or the OUTPUT side??? The ad suggests that this is the output current, but then input current would be 22.5A, which would melt those wimpy #14-looking wires. They could save all all a bunch of headache by simply listing the WATTAGE ratings, which would be the same at both ends.

But then the ad says this:
View attachment 32682


So now we're back to assuming that the 10A rating is the INPUT current. Or we have to assume that this device somehow magically has transcended Ohm's Law and ergo has an output wattage that is greater than its input wattage. Free electricity!!!



More questions....
Is the DJI hub a serial or parallel device? It's been my experience that DJI PASSIVE hubs are always serial. But who knows??? Since the Inspire 2 REQUIRES 2 batteries, I would assume that it charges the batteries in parallel. But I'm not sure.

So the only way we could even remotely entertain the possibility that this combination of Amazon device in concert with the DJI hub as a "solution" is if we make a couple assumptions.

Assumption #1; The Amazon device is 10A on the output side. But see above. There are inconsistencies.
Assumption #2; The DJI hub charges the batteries in parallel, not series.

Based on these assumptions, the math looks good! 270 watts / 2 = 135 watts per battery. This would be a respectable charge.

But there's a problem....

270 watts / 12 = 22.5A on the input side. This would require #10 conductor (wire). Looking at the photo, these do NOT look like #10 conductors to me:
View attachment 32677

Truth be told, they don't even look like #12 conductors. They look like #14 to me. But who knows?!?! Right? But again, there's this:
View attachment 32685

#14 wire is rated at 15A, which aligns with my observation AND the required fuse! CONFUSING!!



I hope this explains why I was "wound up." LOTS of blank spaces....LOTS of assumptions....LOTS of missing information. Dare I say even CONFLICTING information in the Amazon ad. Their math is NOT adding up! Dollars to doughnuts they are over-selling the output ratings. I would bet 5 bucks that the output rating is NOT up to 10A. Doing simple Ohm's Law math and assuming an input current limit of 15A, output is going to be closer to 6A-7A with the engine off, and maybe as high as 7.7ish Amps with the engine running.




10A on which end? Input or output? The ad suggests 10A on the output side. If so, then that is max output, which means there is going to be a duty rating. More than likely you can't just run this boost converter 24/7. More than likely it will have a duty rating that may be as low as 50%....and probably not any higher than 80%.

And there still exists that pesky, looming question; How does this device LIMIT current to 1A or 2A or 3A at the output side???





Correct.




Okay....so the charger IS a parallel charger, yes???






Your math is sound. But you are assuming that 10A is the output current, which would put input current around 22.5A. If this is true, I would be very concerned with those conductors (wires). The input wires should be #10 or better. But they tell you to install a 15A fuse on the input side. Confusing. Conflicting.






True.




I just got frustrated. I apologize.





I am not familiar with the Inspire 2 at all, which was one of the sources of frustration. That's why I wanted specifications on all the devices you suggested.






According to DJI, this is a parallel/serial device:
View attachment 32681


So while this kind of looks good on paper, there are a couple of problems (as I have indicated above). If you are going to try this, my strong suggestion would be to monitor the temperature of those input wires. I would also monitor charge times. Mathematically, some things are just not adding up.

D

The conclusion I guess one can draw from these exchages is that or least in principle what I am proposing is not a bad idea. My inspiration was to find a simple car charging solution where one would utilize what every I2 owner already has, the Charging hub. The only missing piece is how to power the hub. Its label says INPUT 26.1V DC 6.9Amp. I do not know if this is max input it can handle and pass through to the batteries or they simply put it there to match what is on the label of the 180W powersuply OUTPUT 26.1V DC 6.9Amp. And that is a million dollar question. Only way to find out is to connect it to something simillar to what I found on Amazon, the step up regulator or construct something of that kind. The worst can happen, I guess is that the hub gets destroyed if the input voltage will be marginally higher, 27V instead of 26.1V as would be the case with this Amazon product or if the input current is 10Amp, again higher than the 6.9Amp shown on the label. That is, as you pointed out, if this Amazon product is even capable of supplying 10Amp on its output at 27V.
Well, it will take one brave person to test my theory. I will think about that if it is going to be me ... Truly I have not real need for charging with car battery, as most of my jobs do not require it. And if I would need to charge in the field I have a Yamaha 1000W portable generator which I could use.
More than anything this was an excercise in brainstorming and I very much appreciate your valuable input to this debate, Donnie. Thank you

 

[Donnie Frank]

The conclusion I guess one can draw from these exchages is that or least in principle what I am proposing is not a bad idea.

Perhaps. Some research is required. There's lots of ambiguity from both DJI and Amazon, which would make me approach this idea with caution. They're not giving you answers. So you will have to find them on your own.

My inspiration was to find a simple car charging solution where one would utilize what every I2 owner already has, the Charging hub. The only missing piece is how to power the hub. Its label says INPUT 26.1V DC 6.9Amp. I do not know if this is max input it can handle and pass through to the batteries or they simply put it there on the label, as it is matching exactly what is on the label of the 180W powersuply OUTPUT 26.1V DC 6.9Amp. And that is a million dollar question.

Exactly. Bingo. Who knows, right??? DJI has NEVER been forthcoming with information. You can see the progression of DJI's ambiguity in their firmware release notes. Early notes for the Inspire 1 were more honest and comprehensive than latter release notes, which seem to leave out a lot of important data. This is why so many users are caught with their pants down after a firmware update.

Only way to find out is to connect it to something simillar to what I found on Amazon, the step up regulator or construct something of that kind. The worst can happen, I guess is that the hub gets destroyed if the input voltage will be marginally higher, 27V instead of 26.1V as would be the case with this Amazon product or if the input current is 10Amp, again higher than the 6.9Amp shown on the label.

Bingo. And welcome to my world. Sometimes we have to destroy stuff to learn. It's all in the name of science...<:^/ I've burned up hundreds of dollars (if not thousands) destroying hardware to find answers that didn't previously exist.

That is, as you pointed out, if this Amazon product is even capable of supplying 10Amp on its output at 27V.

It may actually work out in your favor that Amazon has oversold the output rating. Dollars to doughnuts, that is what they have done.

Well, it will take one brave person to test my theory. I will think about that if it is going to be me ... Truly I have not real need for charging with car battery, as most of my jobs do not require it.

Necessity is the mother of invention. I designed and built my charger because I had to. At the time I was working out of a Honda Civic with over 200,000 miles on the odometer and I didn't want to tax the vehicle any more than I had to. So having an efficient device that would charge batteries all day long away from infrastructure was something I needed. I belong to a very small percentage of drone pilots with this requirement.

And if I would need to charge in the field I have a Yamaha 1000W portable generator which I could use.

This was our original solution when my partner and I would take his Tahoe. There was plenty of room in there. Not so much with the Civic Wagon, which I honestly didn't feel comfortable hauling a generator in the back of.

More than anything this was an excercise in brainstorming and I very much appreciate your valuable input to this debate, Donnie. Thank you

Ditto. Again, sorry I got frustrated and irritated. My family tree is loaded with high strung people who also have anger management issue. My mother is a worse-case-scenario in that regard. I work on that shortcoming every day.

D

 

[seattlenativemike]

While we are talking hacks, has anyone put a larger nvme ssd in the cinessd case?

 

[syazoo]

There is easy ways to deal with this. I also like the inverter idea. Based on draw calculations, I should start my vehicle every ........ whenever the inverter says so. 5 minute set up. Paid $75 for the 1000 watt inverter. I use my M210 charger and two P4P chargers to charge two at a time ..... so total 4 at a time.
Process: Open hood, clip inverter to battery, run extension cord, plug chargers into power strip. Plenty of overhead to charge Ipad's, Phone and what ever else you have. This does not have to be complicated. If a customer will be stopping by, just organize neatly. This photo was recent mapping 1760 acres. Batteries were never an issue. I took 6 TB55's and 5 Phantom batteries. I started the van for 15 minutes three times. I think the highest draw number was 380 watts. The inverter has a display and I also had a kilowatt in line.