Not all do, which is why we've been contacted by a number of courses. In fact I'd say majorityI am not a golfer but don't golf courses give you a pretty good image of the golf course from the air on a brochure?
'Side cash' sounds like your aiming for encouraging recreational pilots to do commercial jobs, where, in most countries, only certified pilots legally could do this type of job. I think it is morally wrong to encourage recreational pilots to break the law. If on the otherhand you are asking commercially rated pilots to take you up on your model i think you will have no chance of success. You need to pay the market rate for such work.
If you get a course in Ireland to do I will give you a price, otherwise under this model I am out.
Ryan,
Thanks for your post. I'm sure the community members will have opinions and comments to chip in on this thread but you have to understand that for commercially licenced operators the costs/overheads are completely different to a spotty hoodie who goes into Radio Shack, buys a Phantom and then drops you some footage.
A) If you can do it in three hours you are either Usian Bolt or you are not doing a site survey, risk assement, checking airspace restrictions and if necessary getting ATC clearance (where appropriate).
B) Indeed, insurance is something as a commercial operator we have to carry but there is an inherent cost each year to that cover and if you are filming half a dozen golf courses and handing the imagery over to dronecaddyapp and receiving no return in the short term that cannot be proportionally off set against your premium. - I factor in ALL costs when I price a job.
C) Depending on how many members a course has - let's say 1,000 for a good size club would (in the first instance) dictate your short term return. Assuming say 60% of members purchase the app would mean $600 to the aerial guy which is less than I personally charge to shoot a golf course.
D) I give up my time for free to moderate this forum and have (hopefully) helped some of the 12,500 members to better understand their aircraft's, find solutions to problems and help some to go on to work towards gaining certification to operate commercially.
Not all do, which is why we've been contacted by a number of courses. In fact I'd say majority
I say side cash, because my intention isn't to make this a full time job for someone if they don't want it to be. For me It's a part time side project. Some people may really enjoy golf and really enjoy arial filming. Like Myself. If you could enlighten me as to what's the market rate in Ireland I'd appreciate that, thanks
Who does the pro tips? Video need to mark hazard distances, etc?New app for golfers help drone owners make some side cash
So you own a drone like many of us here on the forum. How do you turn all those practice hours into some recurring revenue? Depending on what you fly there might be the opportunity to make some cash. DroneCaddyApp is a start up that uses drones combined with a Smart Phone App to help golfers shave strokes.
At each hole the golfer will have access to aerial drone footage and pro tips to determine how to best play the hole. This will help golfers see what's ahead and (hopefully) lower their scores. They can also keep track of their score and score history.
Put your drone and your talent to work with the people at DroneCaddyApp. If you're interested check us out at www.dronecaddyapp.com or send us an email rob@dronecaddyapp.com
Let me know your thoughts below and post any questions!
Mobitee has a great interface that includes flyovers. Each shot can be mapped and you can drag and drop shot markers showing distance needed for each shot. As a golfer and an aerial photographer I can tell you that Mobitee is a more likely solution, even at $24.99 for the app. People pay $300-$500 for GPS watches/handhelds and Mobitee does the same thing, plus more.
The market is split two ways. First the course pays to get the course video. Most of the ones I've seen are just promotional flyovers. I've only seen one hole by hole example. The rest is pure promotion.Shooting a golf course would be worth at least $1000 and possibly more. At any price per app download from that course alone, there's not a chance in hell the pilot is ever going to make the value of their time and investment back.
In most countries the pilot would need to be licensed and you'd need to be the holder of a UOC or equivalent, or they themself would need to be the holder of one.
You want a hell of a lot for almost nothing. I know what my answer is, and it wouldn't be polite.
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Ryan,Well thanks for your input, however this is why these discussion boards exist. If you think the pricing model is wrong then let's discuss rather than slamming it immediately.
A) I can film a course in three hours
B) Insurance is something you should already have so what cost is associated with that?
C) The 1$ might not sound like a lot but it's the idea of residual income. Anytime for however many years someone downloads that specific course app the pilot will get paid. And like I mentioned maybe this is something we can have a constructive conversation about? Like charge the course an upfront fee of $1000 to "build the app" which is technically already done. But this covers the cost of overhead.
thoughts?
Respectfully,
Ryan
At $2k-5k this new idea will not get done. There has to be a better plan on compensation. I agree that our time is valuable, not sure how his will work out.Assuming that any individuals that would be providing footage are licensed and insured in their jurisdiction, this is potentially a good business idea, but as others have pointed out, primarily for the creator of the DroneCaddyApp, not so much for the individuals who might consider shooting that content for the app and doing the actual work. Residual income or no residual income. As somebody who is familiar with the concept of residual income from copyright in the music composing business, I get THAT part of the idea. However, it needs to be enough residual income to justify doing the work. I personally don't want to be cashing $12 cheques (think Jerry Seinfeld's writer's cramp from signing cheques from the residuals for the Super Terrific Happy Hour) every 6 - 12 months from my residual income until the time that I might make $2000 or more that I could have made in a few days work.
I agree with TheEditor, 2-3 hours, as stated on your web site, is nowhere near long enough to do a proper golf course shoot. 2 - 3 days is more appropriate. ...and that's assuming you have good weather and you can shoot safely around the people who are actually playing golf and adding in the factors that Kevin Hancox so accurately pointed out.
What seems to be happening in this "business", and I think others will agree, is that competition is increasing rapidly, particularly as more and more "professional" UAVs come out at cheaper and cheaper prices. I like TheEditor's term "spotty hoodie" in reference to some of these individuals who may be out there offering their "services" after a visit to the local Radio Shack. I see individuals in my area offering 8 - 10 high rez photos for sale for $150, and if the buyer wants video he'll throw it in for free. That's not good money. It's also unlikely to be good product. However, I see the only way to make any reasonable money in this business is to produce high quality, value added content, using an additional skill set other than just getting good footage and shots. Obviously, editing, sound, music, etc. all fall into the "additional skill sets" category. Golf courses are a potential avenue for good creative content but I would prefer to see them open to individuals who are able to offer creative ideas and deliver on them. The idea that all golf courses might now fall under the umbrella of ONE app, sucks big time because it saps that potential revenue avenue from those of us that want to provide more than just photos and raw unedited video footage.
I have approached a couple of courses in my local area and they have given me permission to work on the property and I've done a couple of test shots to work on my idea for them. If this DroneCaddyApp were to then be the drone delivery medium of choice for these golf courses then there goes my potential income from those golf courses.
The whole thing sort of smacks of Golf Course/Drone Video monopoly. Again, good for DroneCaddyApp, not so much for others.
I'm going through the process of writing a proper business plan for my business. I have to prove some degree of financial viability to make it an actual business. You know, like have an ongoing revenue stream from actual jobs. So I agree with Kirk Voclain and others here. We have to make REAL MONEY or what's the point?
+1 on Mobitee which already has over 37,000 golf courses although it appears that they're using Google satellite imagery rather than UAV footage, Carlsberg, please correct me if I'm wrong.
In conclusion DroneCaddyApp, can you provide some alternative payment structures for those pilots who might be willing to consider this idea that provides a source of income approximately equivalent in a reasonable time frame to what commercial pilots might otherwise make from a golf course shoot? From feedback on this one thread alone that could be anywhere from $2000 to $5000 and should be.
You can't because the 'cart boy' will be undertaking commercial work in an environment where there are members of the public, members vehicles, possibly children etc etc and the 'cart boy' will not carry liability insurance (even if by some chance they did have some cover it would not be for commercial activities).At $2k-5k this new idea will not get done. There has to be a better plan on compensation. I agree that our time is valuable, not sure how his will work out.
Here's what I'd do if dollars get out of hand...hire a cart boy and his drone to fly the course. Probably give him $200 he'd be over joyed. Then get some guy to do the editing and your done. Kiss the idea of doing courses by professionals goodbye.
My point is that unless some adequate compensation is figured out golf clubs will look for an inexpensive way to get this done if needed for promotional purposes.You can't because the 'cart boy' will be undertaking commercial work in an environment where there are members of the public, members vehicles, possibly children etc etc and the 'cart boy' will not carry liability insurance (even if by some chance they did have some cover it would not be for commercial activities).
Any golf course will ask:
Can I see your insurance policy?
Can I see your authorisation to fly commercially?
Businesses are MUCH more clued up now on using aerial production and it is one of the first things I get asked when approaching anybody.
Any commercial operator should be able to produce and should have no hesitation in producing proof of both of the above - in fact I hand it over with a copy of the contract to the client.
Most companies will refuse to use you unless you can satisfy these criteria.
I ran into a young guy with an Inspire 1 that shoots sports footage etc for some companies. I asked him if he was licensed, he said " yeah sure the company got the exemption, but I don't file a flight plan and all that stuff"I have yet to find a public golf course in southeast U.S. that wants to pay more than $300. Most want to offer rounds of golf in exchange for aerials. The private courses are more likely to pay, and almost every one of them already has someone that does it.
Also you do realize that in the US, the FAA is now actively investigating drone footage and fining people major amounts of money if footage was shot by unlicensed pilot.
This includes footage shot by hobbyists and simply posted to YouTube (which makes it commercial).
If you inadvertently use drone footage by some that's not licensed, you cam pretty much kids your business goodbye. And, of course it would be pretty easy to verify videos shot for the app.
So, you're left with pro pilots who already do this for a fee, which means, that you ARE asking hobbyists to make 'side money'. Which is fine, but now you and your app are on the 'radar' so I'm guessing any aerial video you post using your app will be highly scrutinized, not only by government, but by us 'professional' pilots that follows the rules to earn a living.
Hopefully you are licensed, because now you are on the radar as well.
Great post, relevant information.Thanks for responding. Sorry it's taken me a few days to reply I've been busy filming some courses. I actually timed me straight filming the course and I clocked in just under 3 hours. I had to wait a little for someone to clear a hole. I'm not factoring in ALL time (site plan etc) just wanted to share that little tidbit.
Great post, I found it educational and helpful. Quick questions. You say $600 is less then what you charge? What's a good rate to charge if I were to approach a course. With the pitch "hey I'll film your course for X amount, and you'll get the footage plus this app you can sell to golfers." I can take care of the pilot for their time.
Also, If you've already filmed a course in it's entirety then here is a good idea. Re-approach them and say you'll turn that footage into an app for X amount. You supply the footage, we supply the app framework. Not a bad deal for you or I.
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