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Please explain EI mode and how I should use it

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I’m sure this has been asked before even though I couldn’t find it anywhere and @The Editor is gonna to be upset with me but can anyone explain el mode and how to use it please?

I shoot primarily in cDNG but if there’s a difference for ProRes please let me know.

The only thing that would sorta make sense to me at this point is if in EI mode ISO is always recorded at 100 (or whatever the native iso is) so you can apply gain to the image in post with Camera RAW controls but gain is applied to the image in the live view so you can see what you are doing while filming. Maybe I have it completely and utterly wrong.

Why can I only use full manual camera controls in el mode?

Why is there a green line at 400 EI? Is it trying to say that 400 el is the native iso?

Why would you use EI mode instead of normal mode

Sorry I feel kinda dumb that I can’t figure this out and there seems to be nothing online I can find that explains it in a practical manner.

Thanks
 
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First you have to translate to English. Living in N.M. for many decades, I'm very wise in the ways of Spanish.

"El mode" in English is "The Mode." This should really help clear things up....<;^)

D
 
I’m sure this has been asked before even though I couldn’t find it anywhere and @The Editor is gonna to be upset with me but can anyone explain el mode and how to use it please?

I shoot primarily in cDNG but if there’s a difference for ProRes please let me know.

The only thing that would sorta make sense to me at this point is if in el mode ISO is always recorded at 100 (or whatever the native iso is) so you can apply gain to the image in post with Camera RAW controls but gain is applied to the image in the live view so you can see what you are doing while filming. Maybe I have it completely and utterly wrong.

Why can I only use full manual camera controls in el mode?

Why is there a green line at 400 el? Is it trying to say that 400 el is the native iso?

Why would you use el mode instead of normal mode

Sorry I feel kinda dumb that I can’t figure this out and there seems to be nothing online I can find that explains it in a practical manner.

Thanks
As far as I understand, when you are shooting CineDNG, EL mode affects only your visualization and scopes.

But on the waveform, in EL mode you will see how much of space you will have at the top to prevent highlight clipping. So, you can "overexpose" your footage then bring it back in the post which will help to decrease noise.

I may be wrong, though.
 
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As far as I understand, when you are shooting CineDNG, EL mode affects only your visualization and scopes.

But on the waveform, in EL mode you will see how much of space you will have at the top to prevent highlight clipping. So, you can "overexpose" your footage then bring it back in the post which will help to decrease noise.

I may be wrong, though.
Thanks I’ll look into that. I really wish DJI would explain it so it’s not such a mystery
 
First you have to translate to English. Living in N.M. for many decades, I'm very wise in the ways of Spanish.

"El mode" in English is "The Mode." This should really help clear things up....<;^)

D
It’s ei mode as in “exposure index” I’ve edited my original post to make this more clear. Originally I had eI which does make it look like Spanish work for “the.”
 
I’m sure this has been asked before even though I couldn’t find it anywhere and @The Editor is gonna to be upset with me but can anyone explain el mode and how to use it please?

I shoot primarily in cDNG but if there’s a difference for ProRes please let me know.

The only thing that would sorta make sense to me at this point is if in EI mode ISO is always recorded at 100 (or whatever the native iso is) so you can apply gain to the image in post with Camera RAW controls but gain is applied to the image in the live view so you can see what you are doing while filming. Maybe I have it completely and utterly wrong.

Why can I only use full manual camera controls in el mode?

Why is there a green line at 400 EI? Is it trying to say that 400 el is the native iso?

Why would you use EI mode instead of normal mode

Sorry I feel kinda dumb that I can’t figure this out and there seems to be nothing online I can find that explains it in a practical manner.

Thanks
Post number 3 will explain it perfectly.

EI mode explained

You're welcone
 
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I’m sure this has been asked before even though I couldn’t find it anywhere and @The Editor is gonna to be upset with me but can anyone explain el mode and how to use it please?

I shoot primarily in cDNG but if there’s a difference for ProRes please let me know.

The only thing that would sorta make sense to me at this point is if in EI mode ISO is always recorded at 100 (or whatever the native iso is) so you can apply gain to the image in post with Camera RAW controls but gain is applied to the image in the live view so you can see what you are doing while filming. Maybe I have it completely and utterly wrong.

Why can I only use full manual camera controls in el mode?

Why is there a green line at 400 EI? Is it trying to say that 400 el is the native iso?

Why would you use EI mode instead of normal mode

Sorry I feel kinda dumb that I can’t figure this out and there seems to be nothing online I can find that explains it in a practical manner.

Thanks
It is DJI "Sensitivity Gamma / Gamut" setting
 
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It is DJI "Sensitivity Gamma / Gamut" setting
I am pretty slow so bear with me here please.

I totally understand that in el mode when recording D-log to the SSD you can monitor in Rec 709 even though you are recording D-log to the SSD. I get that it makes sense.

What I am now confused about is if el mode changes anything when it comes to cDNG?

I wouldn’t have thought so, raw is raw right? But there’s a snippet in the documentation for a linear_to_D_LOG LUT from DJI that seems to imply there is something different about cDNG shot in el mode vs normal mode78D69C5E-F798-4DD3-8AEA-6808E5DA8228.jpeg
https://terra-1-g.djicdn.com/851d20f7b9f64838a34cd02351370894/zenmuse%20系列说明书-0604/DJI_Linear_to_D-Log_LUT_User_Instruction_DaVinci_EN.pdf
 
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I am pretty slow so bear with me here please.

I totally understand that in el mode when recording D-log to the SSD you can monitor in Rec 709 even though you are recording D-log to the SSD. I get that it makes sense.

What I am now confused about is if el mode changes anything when it comes to cDNG?

I wouldn’t have thought so, raw is raw right? But there’s a snippet in the documentation for a linear_to_D_LOG LUT from DJI that seems to imply there is something different about cDNG shot in el mode vs normal modeView attachment 29860
https://terra-1-g.djicdn.com/851d20f7b9f64838a34cd02351370894/zenmuse%20系列说明书-0604/DJI_Linear_to_D-Log_LUT_User_Instruction_DaVinci_EN.pdf
Linear color space is commonly used in vfx productions. Usually the rendered elements in vfx houses are output in linear, which simply mean they are stripped off any gamma curve. Because of that missing gamma a linear image looks very dark. This way the vfx workflow is more easy to match the synthetic output that computer produces to a certain media that was used to record the live footage for the show. And in that matter there are some very popular transforms like linear to alexa Log-C, linear to REDLog, as well some cannon and sony standards. So linear to D-Log is ment to be used in a vfx production to match the gamma of the computer rendered elements to the dji's gamma.
But because usually the drone footage is just a fraction of the whole footage that's shot for the show it's most reasonable the drone footage to be exported in a color space that the main cameras have for the show. As dji are not providing a way their raw files to be read directly as D-Log in the editing softwares it's most common to use Rec709 to Linear on them and then to apply a second transform to match the dji footage to the main cameras gamma, if shot with RED it could be Linear to REDLog and etc.
Shooting in RAW DNG doesnt matter what color gamma profile you'll set as this is interchangeable later in the recorded RAW settings but the ISO is baked in the RAW and cannot be changed any more like RED RAW files can do.
So the exposure is baked in to 10bit per channel which gives the ability to readjust a few f-stops in post when your delivery is ending at 8bit sdr Rec709, but there is no baked gamma curve in the raw, this is in short what DNG RAW files are.
If you are shooting MOV or MP4 on the SD card then the gamma setting matters and is actually very important to be set to D-Log as this gamma becomes baked in to the MOV file and later one can more preciselly adjust the convertion to Rec709 and preserve some detail in the highlight and the shadows. But because those files are 8 or 10 bit, baking the gamma in them makes them useful only in one way - from flat to rec709, the other way or applying multiple gamma transforms will lead to loss of information and color degradation. Thats the idea of not baking the gamma in to the 10bit footage.
 
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Linear color space is commonly used in vfx productions. Usually the rendered elements in vfx houses are output in linear, which simply mean they are stripped off any gamma curve. Because of that missing gamma a linear image looks very dark. This way the vfx workflow is more easy to match the synthetic output that computer produces to a certain media that was used to record the live footage for the show. And in that matter there are some very popular transforms like linear to alexa Log-C, linear to REDLog, as well some cannon and sony standards. So linear to D-Log is ment to be used in a vfx production to match the gamma of the computer rendered elements to the dji's gamma.
But because usually the drone footage is just a fraction of the whole footage that's shot for the show it's most reasonable the drone footage to be exported in a color space that the main cameras have for the show. As dji are not providing a way their raw files to be read directly as D-Log in the editing softwares it's most common to use Rec709 to Linear on them and then to apply a second transform to match the dji footage to the main cameras gamma, if shot with RED it could be Linear to REDLog and etc.
Shooting in RAW DNG doesnt matter what color gamma profile you'll set as this is interchangeable later in the recorded RAW settings but the ISO is baked in the RAW and cannot be changed any more like RED RAW files can do.
So the exposure is baked in to 10bit per channel which gives the ability to readjust a few f-stops in post when your delivery is ending at 8bit sdr Rec709, but there is no baked gamma curve in the raw, this is in short what DNG RAW files are.
If you are shooting MOV or MP4 on the SD card then the gamma setting matters and is actually very important to be set to D-Log as this gamma becomes baked in to the MOV file and later one can more preciselly adjust the convertion to Rec709 and preserve some detail in the highlight and the shadows. But because those files are 8 or 10 bit, baking the gamma in them makes them useful only in one way - from flat to rec709, the other way or applying multiple gamma transforms will lead to loss of information and color degradation. Thats the idea of not baking the gamma in to the 10bit footage.
Thanks. That does makes sense for the question of what the purpose of the linear to D-Log LUT does and I understand that what I still don't understand is what El mode does differently to cDNG than normal mode.

BTW ISO isn't baked into the other RAW formats that I have used. Red RAW, BRAW, Canon Raw, etc. allow you to choose the ISO in post. Screen Shot 2020-10-30 at 1.57.00 PM.png
From what I tell iso IS baked into DJI's cDNG though. The same footage shot at difference ISO all else the same looks very different.

That is kinda the original main purpose of trying to figure out this EI mode thing. I was thinking maybe in EI mode ISO wasn't baked in like other RAW formats. That doesn't appear to be the case unless it is actually tone curve in the original meta data that is baked in not iso.
 
Which is returning us to my original explanations.

Check waveform graphs for the same scene in normal mode and EI mode. In RI mode, the waveform is much more optimistic regarding your ability to overexpose. The actual RAW would be in core the same for the same expo pair but seems like EI give you more info about overexposing limits without losing details in the highlights.
 
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Which is returning us to my original explanations.

Check waveform graphs for the same scene in normal mode and EI mode. In RI mode, the waveform is much more optimistic regarding your ability to overexpose. The actual RAW would be in core the same for the same expo pair but seems like EI give you more info about overexposing limits without losing details in the highlights.
Yea you were right, I did some tests today and there was no difference between the cDNG in EI vs non EI mode. Also like you said the waveform has way more latitude in the highlights than when EI mode is off.

What I am thinking is that the waveform in EI mode is specifically tuned to help expose D Log. Generally you would want to expose log to the right so the waveform in EI more makes this compensation for you. Shooting cDNG in EI mode using the waveform monitor seems to produce less than ideal results. I was not able to recover all the highlights it says I should be able to get.

Thanks for bearing with me guys I know I’m a bit slow.
 
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Yea you were right, I did some tests today and there was no difference between the cDNG in EI vs non EI mode. Also like you said the waveform has way more latitude in the highlights than when EI mode is off.

What I am thinking is that the waveform in EI mode is specifically tuned to help expose D Log. Generally you would want to expose log to the right so the waveform in EI more makes this compensation for you. Shooting cDNG in EI mode using the waveform monitor seems to produce less than ideal results. I was not able to recover all the highlights it says I should be able to get.

Thanks for bearing with me guys I know I’m a bit slow.
Do you have CineDNG footage exposed by the waveform in EI mode? Can you please check it in DaVinci 17 using the "color managed" science?
- pick the "DaVinci Wide Gamut" preset
- switch to "Custom"
- set "Input Color Space" to DJI D-Gamut / DJI D-Log and output color space to Rec709 (scene)

Will this setting make any difference in interpretation?
 
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Do you have CineDNG footage exposed by the waveform in EI mode? Can you please check it in DaVinci 17 using the "color managed" science?
- pick the "DaVinci Wide Gamut" preset
- switch to "Custom"
- set "Input Color Space" to DJI D-Gamut / DJI D-Log and output color space to Rec709 (scene)

Will this setting make any difference in interpretation?
cDNG can’t be processed directly to D-gamut/D-Log in Resolve so you’d have to RAW process it to linear and then apply a linear to D-Log conversion which I don’t think you can do if the timeline is color managed? I’m not sure. But you know what, I found something interesting!

I was drafting a response to you and I decided to Google D-Gamut and I found this white paper on D-Log and D-Gamut and it actually provides some information about EI mode I’ve never seen before from DJI!


It says:

The D-Log curve encodes 7.8 stops above 18% gray (4200%) to 1.0.
The D-Log curve’s EI value is measured as 1600 on DJI Zenmuse X5S. It is scaled to generate a set of log curves for different exposure indices, as shown in the following figure:2DC1D2E9-4D5E-4C48-B2A9-B755DEE2DF02.jpeg
The maximum value of the curve depends on the EI value. When EI value is below 1600, the output code value will not reach saturation level (e.g. 1023 for 10bit). This is the necessary compromise to achieve better signal-noise-ratio. For EI above 1600, the output code value will be beyond saturation level if calculated by the linear-log conversion function, thus an s-shape function is applied to keep output code value in valid range.”

If I’m understanding this correctly it’s basically saying that in EI mode the D-Log gamma curve is different based on the EI value. The white point is substantially different at EI 100 than at EI 1600 but the black point isn’t as substantially different, though it is different at the various EI values. At EI 3200 the gamma curve is different entirely.

At EI 1600 the white point is the same in D-Log as it is in cDNG but the black point is always different.

If the waveform monitor is taking these different curves into account I think this could account for the difference between cDNG and D-Log using the same waveform monitor to expose in EI mode?

I looked up the white paper for other Log gamma curves from other manufacturers and I couldn’t find another flavor of log that changes curve based on EI/ISO. At least with Sony in EI mode it’s only the monitor LUT that changes with different EI values. The recorded footage doesn’t change at all. Maybe this is why DJI’s EI mode is so mysterious? It also explains why so much tweaking is required in post even when the D-Log to rec. 709 LUT is applied.

For the record I don’t really know what I am talking about I’m just giving my interpretation of the research I found. Would love for somebody who does know what they are talking about to chime in and let me know if I’m totally in left field
 
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On closer inspection Arri Log C works the same way where the gamma curve is different for each exposure index. I am sure that’s where DJI got the idea.
 
cDNG can’t be processed directly to D-gamut/D-Log in Resolve

Yes, you are totally right! Seems like the Input Color Space for CINEDNG doesn't affect the result in the color managed workflow, my bad, I missed this point. Thank you for the reminder :)
 
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I am pretty slow so bear with me here please.

I totally understand that in el mode when recording D-log to the SSD you can monitor in Rec 709 even though you are recording D-log to the SSD. I get that it makes sense.

What I am now confused about is if el mode changes anything when it comes to cDNG?

I wouldn’t have thought so, raw is raw right? But there’s a snippet in the documentation for a linear_to_D_LOG LUT from DJI that seems to imply there is something different about cDNG shot in el mode vs normal modeView attachment 29860
https://terra-1-g.djicdn.com/851d20f7b9f64838a34cd02351370894/zenmuse%20系列说明书-0604/DJI_Linear_to_D-Log_LUT_User_Instruction_DaVinci_EN.pdf
EI mode A/K/A Exposure index ,
DJI does not recommend going over 1600.
In addition if your using Davinci Resolve and go from Linear to D-Log LUT you will also need to add a transform to whatever Color Space your looking to work or deliver in.
Meaning Rec.709 Vs. Rec.2020 and delivering in P3 D65 (as an example).
Davinci Resolve Studio 17 has added DJI Gamut and Log as an IDT (Input Device Transform) to recognize the DJI footage.
 
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Exposure
That's a big subject
In film, the ISO of a film was the number that you would base your exposure on. Meaning F Stop and Shutter Speed. There is a simple rule one can use in a pinch.
The "Sunny Sixteen Rule".
ISO 125 film can result in a middle gray exposure with F16 and 1/125 second exposure. You can also use any combination. F11 at 1/250. F22 at 1/60. F32 at 1/30. F4 at 1/2000.
Change the ISO to 1000. One starts with F16 at 1/1000.
I am not the expert on sensors. But it makes sense to me, each has a sweet spot where a certain ISO / EI will result in the best spread of high and low values about that range.
One can drive themselves looney in this endeavor. My thoughts are to look at what the Mfgr of the camera states is the range. Then conduct some tests to see what works best for you.
Btw, a Kodak Gray Card might be very useful in this quest.
 
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