Welcome Inspire Pilots!
Join our free DJI Inspire community today!
Sign up

Some good TB50 news for a change

Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
61
Reaction score
19
Age
53
After a year and a half of flawless operation, a few weeks ago I finally had the dreaded Broken Cell Error.
I have three sets of TB50's, A,B and C labeled.
A set probably had about 38 cycles, B set about 18 cycles and the C around 5 cycles.
A and C sets exhibited the error.
I purchased a Phantom Angel battery Dis-charger and tried cycling them a few times.
The voltage differential got a lot smaller, but not enough to clear the error.
Perhaps if I tried a few more discharge/charge cycles it would have decreased to the point it became acceptable.
I reluctantly updated the firmware and the A set no longer had an error.
The C set showed a lower lever of charge on one pack, but would not take any more charge from the hub.
Using the Phantom Angel, I dis-charged that pack to the storage level and put it back on the charge hub, bringing it up to full chooch.
C set and now working fine with no error.
Just wanted to share my experience with correcting this error and let others know the Phantom Angel is a good tool to add to your toolbox.
Eddie
 
  • Like
Reactions: Donnie Frank
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
24
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia Beach, Virginia USA
Website
www.chriscrumley.com
Ed, you're fortunate. I have 40+ DJI batteries for Inspire 2, M600 and Mavic 2 Pro aircraft. Recently, ALL 8 of my Inspire 2 TB50 batteries swelled to the point they will hardy insert into the DjI Battery Station or the aircraft. None of the remaining 32+ batteries are having this issue. DJI advises to NOT use the swollen batteries, so my solution to doing client work requires about $1,500 for new batteries. DJI, so far, refuses to recall/replace the swollen batteries; they just quote the DJI six-month battery Warranty policy. I contend this is a recall/replace issue and DJI knows a revised TB50 is now shipping.

Imagine all vendors supplying batteries for our home and work delivering batteries with a lifespan of only six months.

This seems to be a candidate for a Class Action Lawsuit. That doesn't help me, but would put DJI on notice to do the right thing when products are defective.

====================================================
After a year and a half of flawless operation, a few weeks ago I finally had the dreaded Broken Cell Error.
I have three sets of TB50's, A,B and C labeled.
A set probably had about 38 cycles, B set about 18 cycles and the C around 5 cycles.
A and C sets exhibited the error.
I purchased a Phantom Angel battery Dis-charger and tried cycling them a few times.
The voltage differential got a lot smaller, but not enough to clear the error.
Perhaps if I tried a few more discharge/charge cycles it would have decreased to the point it became acceptable.
I reluctantly updated the firmware and the A set no longer had an error.
The C set showed a lower lever of charge on one pack, but would not take any more charge from the hub.
Using the Phantom Angel, I dis-charged that pack to the storage level and put it back on the charge hub, bringing it up to full chooch.
C set and now working fine with no error.
Just wanted to share my experience with correcting this error and let others know the Phantom Angel is a good tool to add to your toolbox.
Eddie
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
16
Reaction score
2
Age
72
Location
Medford Oregon
Website
www.skyviewaerialimagery.com
After a year and a half of flawless operation, a few weeks ago I finally had the dreaded Broken Cell Error.
I have three sets of TB50's, A,B and C labeled.
A set probably had about 38 cycles, B set about 18 cycles and the C around 5 cycles.
A and C sets exhibited the error.
I purchased a Phantom Angel battery Dis-charger and tried cycling them a few times.
The voltage differential got a lot smaller, but not enough to clear the error.
Perhaps if I tried a few more discharge/charge cycles it would have decreased to the point it became acceptable.
I reluctantly updated the firmware and the A set no longer had an error.
The C set showed a lower lever of charge on one pack, but would not take any more charge from the hub.
Using the Phantom Angel, I dis-charged that pack to the storage level and put it back on the charge hub, bringing it up to full chooch.
C set and now working fine with no error.
Just wanted to share my experience with correcting this error and let others know the Phantom Angel is a good tool to add to your toolbox.
Eddie
We do you find this Phantom Angel battery Dis-charger? I have not heard of this. I would like to get one and try it.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
61
Reaction score
19
Age
53
Thanks Dobmatt, I thought I had a www for the site, must have forgot to paste it in.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
61
Reaction score
19
Age
53
Hey Chris, I havent had any of the swelling issue, just a little imbalance.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
526
Reaction score
125
Age
61
After a year and a half of flawless operation, a few weeks ago I finally had the dreaded Broken Cell Error.
I have three sets of TB50's, A,B and C labeled.
A set probably had about 38 cycles, B set about 18 cycles and the C around 5 cycles.
A and C sets exhibited the error.
I purchased a Phantom Angel battery Dis-charger and tried cycling them a few times.
The voltage differential got a lot smaller, but not enough to clear the error.
Perhaps if I tried a few more discharge/charge cycles it would have decreased to the point it became acceptable.
I reluctantly updated the firmware and the A set no longer had an error.
The C set showed a lower lever of charge on one pack, but would not take any more charge from the hub.
Using the Phantom Angel, I dis-charged that pack to the storage level and put it back on the charge hub, bringing it up to full chooch.
C set and now working fine with no error.
Just wanted to share my experience with correcting this error and let others know the Phantom Angel is a good tool to add to your toolbox.
Eddie
Ed, you're fortunate. I have 40+ DJI batteries for Inspire 2, M600 and Mavic 2 Pro aircraft. Recently, ALL 8 of my Inspire 2 TB50 batteries swelled to the point they will hardy insert into the DjI Battery Station or the aircraft. None of the remaining 32+ batteries are having this issue.
Good Information on both issues... thanks for the info share.
I personally wasn't aware there was a "swelling issue" with the TB50 (TB55?). This was a TB50 issue only correct, you site the other platforms but assume no swelling issues with Mavic or TB48. For all 8 TB50 to swell, that's interesting and unfortunate. Were they all purchased same time period... as in same production lot?

Speaking of swelling and Mavic series...with the full hard case enclosed, has any one had a swelling Mavic series battery? Does the case swell out preventing inserting into bay or does the case contain the swell and the battery just begins to behave poorly on performance & charge?

On the "Broken Cell" error, what FW were you maintaining on the I2 & batteries.
My "recall" and I may be incorrect; the "Battery Error" was created during the 3 attempts of FW versions during the "supposedly" Battery Failure problem stimulated as a result of 1 UK Tactical unit. I thought the 1st "rushed" FW update to counter the main focus was the FW that initiated and created several battery error issues and 2 versions later corrected the problem. I recall holding off on FW updates during this period, and then later applied a FW past this series of opps & corrections.

Don't recall now where in FW versions: I had 1 of my 16 TB50 (I2 & M210 versions) fail and refuse to accept a charge. I tried a manual "wired" discharge without success, and when I thought it was a "trashed battery", began a process to open and see if I could manually perform a low voltage Balance Charge like can be performed on TB47-48 series to recover & refresh failures. Realizing this wasn't practical and before it lost all charge, I tried a FW update... and it corrected the battery, providing a correctly performing battery that has since been used & cycled 4-5 times.

The "Phantom Angel" device is a great device to discharge, especially if a busy shop for maintenance. Any method to slowly draw the LiPo down is helpful for healthy battery cycling... although I think it's design is to obtain "storage" level, not lower limit for deeper recycling. (Edit- looked it up, and it does perform both storage & deep cycle)

With the DJI batteries being so-called "smart", taking them below the LiPo (LiHV) danger lower limit of 3.0v would be difficult, I believe the cutoff in circuitry is 3.1~3.2v, so by design the smart battery circuit will prevent damage discharge. This doesn't include levels "dipped during load" draws, so still need to land and reduce loads prior to lower voltage limits. Keep in mind, the reported "0 %" on Smart batteries is not zero, it's 0% to the programmed "smart" discharge level of apx. 3.2v, above the LiPo chemical damage voltage 3.0v.

When time allows, about every 3-5 cycles, I'll land and spin motors as a minimal load and take them down to 5-3%, then turn off motors and let it electronically run until 2-1% as no-load. Then place in stack to cool & recharge to 2 LED storage or Full Charge... when fully cooled. A more important policy is to never charge Hot or Warm LiPo batteries, that's the purpose of multiple sets. Charging LiPo gel when warm is probably more damaging than running battery down to lower percentages under load. The "Smart" circuitry includes a temp probe between the gel bags, and will prevent a "Hot" charge and will limit and reduce current loads when hot-warm... you may notice a charge on a busy day takes longer than normal due to charging hot-warm batteries in a rush.

The "Smart" batteries removes a lot of LiPo attention compared to traditional LiPo paks. But a little cycle maintenance still has benefit in LiPo health.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
38
Reaction score
4
Age
34
Ed, you're fortunate. I have 40+ DJI batteries for Inspire 2, M600 and Mavic 2 Pro aircraft. Recently, ALL 8 of my Inspire 2 TB50 batteries swelled to the point they will hardy insert into the DjI Battery Station or the aircraft. None of the remaining 32+ batteries are having this issue. DJI advises to NOT use the swollen batteries, so my solution to doing client work requires about $1,500 for new batteries. DJI, so far, refuses to recall/replace the swollen batteries; they just quote the DJI six-month battery Warranty policy. I contend this is a recall/replace issue and DJI knows a revised TB50 is now shipping.

Imagine all vendors supplying batteries for our home and work delivering batteries with a lifespan of only six months.

This seems to be a candidate for a Class Action Lawsuit. That doesn't help me, but would put DJI on notice to do the right thing when products are defective.

====================================================
Do the TB50s have discharge days? Apparently, the M2 batteries didn't have discharge days until the latest update in late September 2019.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
526
Reaction score
125
Age
61
Do the TB50s have discharge days? Apparently, the M2 batteries didn't have discharge days until the latest update in late September 2019.
The Go4 app allowed setting discharge up to I believe 10 days max within a range. I don’t recall my M210 not being able to set discharge days initially, the FW update didn’t add that feature... may have changed the range of days, if so I don’t recall.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
38
Reaction score
4
Age
34
The Go4 app allowed setting discharge up to I believe 10 days max within a range. I don’t recall my M210 not being able to set discharge days initially, the FW update didn’t add that feature... may have changed the range of days, if so I don’t recall.
Need to change it to 4 or less.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
526
Reaction score
125
Age
61
Need to change it to 4 or less.
There's a technical argument that it shouldn't exceed 24-48 hrs... which indicates 1-2 days max.
Although I personally sway, and without any substantiated fact I tend to go longer at times.
I have mine set for 4-5 days, for basically the reason if I charge up on Friday evening for weekend construction site, Ag fields, or various activities... then it rains or something delays plans. I often won't get to the projects until Mon-Wed. I never start a mission on partially depleted batteries, so applying the 1-2 day policy would mean recharging an unused battery possibly several times a week if weather, activities or intended number of batteries wasn't utilized.

Again, without fact...I personally feel if batteries are stored in a cool environment (my mid-west basement normally 68 degrees), I question if there's any "more" damage caused an extended full charge period (4-5 days) vs recharging to cap the batteries off every few days.

Again, as indicated above in previous post... To my knowledge, the "most" damaging to a LiPo battery is performing a quick Recharge to full capacity while battery is Hot to Hot/Warm, knowing surface temp feeling warm would be hot/warm within the interior gel. I question if some battery issues indicated over several threads are more attributed to practice of charging and attention to maintenance cycling the battery every recommended 10-20 charge cycles (I target 5, max 10).
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
38
Reaction score
4
Age
34
There's a technical argument that it shouldn't exceed 24-48 hrs... which indicates 1-2 days max.
Although I personally sway, and without any substantiated fact I tend to go longer at times.
I have mine set for 4-5 days, for basically the reason if I charge up on Friday evening for weekend construction site, Ag fields, or various activities... then it rains or something delays plans. I often won't get to the projects until Mon-Wed. I never start a mission on partially depleted batteries, so applying the 1-2 day policy would mean recharging an unused battery possibly several times a week if weather, activities or intended number of batteries wasn't utilized.

Again, without fact...I personally feel if batteries are stored in a cool environment (my mid-west basement normally 68 degrees), I question if there's any "more" damage caused an extended full charge period (4-5 days) vs recharging to cap the batteries off every few days.

Again, as indicated above in previous post... To my knowledge, the "most" damaging to a LiPo battery is performing a quick Recharge to full capacity while battery is Hot to Hot/Warm, knowing surface temp feeling warm would be hot/warm within the interior gel. I question if some battery issues indicated over several threads are more attributed to practice of charging and attention to maintenance cycling the battery every recommended 10-20 charge cycles (I target 5, max 10).
The owner of the TB48s that I bought 4 from, had them at 1 day. It flies like brand new. I set to 4 because, sometimes I decide to fly a couple days later. It's just, when you fly during it's discharge time, it might drop the voltage and confuse the battery. I had critically low voltage at 60%. I had control all the way down. I had modded my Inspire 1 Pro (X3) to descend max at 8.0 m/s. If I had it stock, I probably would have been f*. I flew it again after and it was fine. Now I run a voltage on all my batteries. I used to not run it thinking it would tax the battery less as the calls to check battery aren't there but it's critical to know the voltage.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
526
Reaction score
125
Age
61
The owner of the TB48s that I bought 4 from, had them at 1 day. It flies like brand new. I set to 4 because, sometimes I decide to fly a couple days later. It's just, when you fly during it's discharge time, it might drop the voltage and confuse the battery. I had critically low voltage at 60%. I had control all the way down. I had modded my Inspire 1 Pro (X3) to descend max at 8.0 m/s. If I had it stock, I probably would have been f*. I flew it again after and it was fine. Now I run a voltage on all my batteries. I used to not run it thinking it would tax the battery less as the calls to check battery aren't there but it's critical to know the voltage.
The display showing voltage or not display doesn't effect battery, the voltage is part of the data stream regardless. Actually the percentage is the questionable one, it's a calculation algorithm to display the percentage instead of reading the voltage directly... has several variables based on estimation of various conditions. The percentage isn't the accurate one and DJI probably would avoid several FW issues if they didn't attempt to calculate percentage and simply displayed voltage. The percentage was created for the End User convenience, the voltage is the actual accurate measurement.

Modifying decent rate is popular tweak, just keep it in mind that the flare up time is increased too. Several have smacked a roof top or ground due to rapid decent and longer flare up.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
38
Reaction score
4
Age
34
The display showing voltage or not display doesn't effect battery, the voltage is part of the data stream regardless. Actually the percentage is the questionable one, it's a calculation algorithm to display the percentage instead of reading the voltage directly... has several variables based on estimation of various conditions. The percentage isn't the accurate one and DJI probably would avoid several FW issues if they didn't attempt to calculate percentage and simply displayed voltage. The percentage was created for the End User convenience, the voltage is the actual accurate measurement.

Modifying decent rate is popular tweak, just keep it in mind that the flare up time is increased too. Several have smacked a roof top or ground due to rapid decent and longer flare up.
The rapid descent is awesome with upper gimbal tilting. You can't get that effect unless you do it or speed ramp.

I'm used to the fast descents because I was in drones and RC helis that have Zero GPS hold. GPS Hold was a luxury w/ the Naza but I couldn't afford it. I got Feiyu-tech instead. It was awesome with that.


Also, I've learned from my laptop that even though I disconnected with 100% battery, it drops to 93%, it blinks a lot like something is critically wrong, master caution, then it shuts down. I turn it back on and it says critically low voltage, plug in. Remember, it was 100% then dropped to 93%. I take it seriously. It's good I didn't disable the low battery warning landings at the firmware. :) Learning things from elsewhere saves other areas of life before they become too late. : )
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
526
Reaction score
125
Age
61
The rapid descent is awesome with upper gimbal tilting. You can't get that effect unless you do it or speed ramp.

I'm used to the fast descents because I was in drones and RC helis that have Zero GPS hold. GPS Hold was a luxury w/ the Naza but I couldn't afford it. I got Feiyu-tech instead. It was awesome with that.


Also, I've learned from my laptop that even though I disconnected with 100% battery, it drops to 93%, it blinks a lot like something is critically wrong, master caution, then it shuts down. I turn it back on and it says critically low voltage, plug in. Remember, it was 100% then dropped to 93%. I take it seriously. It's good I didn't disable the low battery warning landings at the firmware. :) Learning things from elsewhere saves other areas of life before they become too late. : )
Very nice, didn't know you were into RC heli and stunt flying. I've tried RC Heli and enjoy it but I'm no where close to that flying... would like to be but haven't learned how.

Would highly agree, flying RC Heli... provides a lot of useable skill and understanding the GPS only drone flyers don't understand or frankly don't want to apply.

Nice RC Heli flying... impressive!
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
38
Reaction score
4
Age
34
Very nice, didn't know you were into RC heli and stunt flying. I've tried RC Heli and enjoy it but I'm no where close to that flying... would like to be but haven't learned how.

Would highly agree, flying RC Heli... provides a lot of useable skill and understanding the GPS only drone flyers don't understand or frankly don't want to apply.

Nice RC Heli flying... impressive!
If you are going to do it, get the latest RealFlight w/ controller to practice. A lot of people crash taking up their helis up for the first time. The idea is to never crash. It takes a lot of work to rebuild it back to stock.

I was heavily into sims w/ good physics engines before I got into RC. A lot of things are pretty much the same but obviously in real-life there are wind, improperly built equipment that isn't perfectly balanced, and other factors.
 

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
19,752
Messages
193,058
Members
29,122
Latest member
190jetjock