Training

[JakeB826]

Obviously, there is a very clear line between those of you that really know what you are doing and are able to get out in the real world and work at mapping/GIS and the rest of us struggling to get functional. Can anyone spare a few minutes and provide some direction for someone who wants to step up to the professional level?

I am experienced in basic commercial flying (i.e. roofing inspections, real estate, etc) and use an I1/X5/X3 currently. I'm quite willing and able to bump up to a Matrice or even down to a P4 (battery life) when the bottom line supports the expense....my point being that I'm serious about using the right equipment and achieving professional results.

I understand the basic concepts of GIS, etc but how do I step it up to being a functional mapping pilot that is employable? What qualifications are you guys looking for when you bring on new pilots? I am US based and have access to several GIS certificate programs at local community colleges but as of yet haven't seen any UAS centered. Is a GIS certificate program a reasonable starting point? I have no problem working for another entity, I'm not looking to be the next drone startup world dominator, I just have no idea how to get my foot in this door.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jake

 

[MGS]

I started using GIS, Remote Sensing, and Cartography in school back 2010. Fast forward a few years, I've had to go back and start a Masters program in Geographic Information Technology. The GIS aspect is huge, but Remote Sensing is where you're going to learn about;

• Photogrammetry
• Digital Image Processing (NDVI, NIR, IR... Light Band)
• Vegetation Analysis
• Intro to LiDAR
• Automated Feature Extraction
• Spectroscopic Image Analysis
• C4ISR

There's a new field emerging with respect to Certificates and Degrees; Geospatial Services (GIS/Remote Sensing/ Data management). I would consider any opportunity to take GIS/Remote Sensing classes to a huge benefit. Anyone can collect data via a UAV, it's the ability to process and analyze it that makes it actionable.

USGIF
Trajectory

Jerry

 

[JakeB826]

Thank you very much Jerry. I appreciate your time. I got lucky and found out that an old friend is currently in a GIS program at the University of Houston and is going to hook me up with the department head. I'm excited but a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out where to start. I already have two unrelated degrees so the college thing isn't a worry......just the time.

On a related side note, I'm thinking of getting some field practice in the interim. Am I correct in assuming that with my I1/X3 or 5 I can shoot the ortho flights and reconcile the data with drone deploy or pix4d, etc by simply using ground control points and then uploading them for the post-processing? (I got on this thought train by application of my yellow belt in google-fu....I realize I may be off track) If so, is ONE ground GPS unit to mark/measure my GCPs sufficient or do I need a base station and a rover? I can afford to get something like an Emlid Reach RS if it is that simple, a two station setup may be out of reach. Help Anybody?

 

[MGS]

I can't speak about the level of accuracy of the I1 with respect to GCP and GPS, but I can tell you that I did some post-processing of some missions that were flown over Haiti during one of the last disasters.

The data sets were collected with an Inspire 1 running the FC350 camera. I processed fairly large image sets with both Drone Deploy, Pix4D, and DJI Rappid. I was able to produce quality Orthomosaics and Digital Elevation Models. I would guess it's all about the mission parameters with respect to what hardware will suffice.

 

[bluelight.support]

I started using GIS, Remote Sensing, and Cartography in school back 2010. Fast forward a few years, I've had to go back and start a Masters program in Geographic Information Technology.

As stated above, this sector is absolutely massive, I started mapping with an Inspire 2 with X5S with Trimble GNSS system for accurate GCPs. It became apparent very quickly that I needed more help and information to make me any good at this. As I've mentioned on other threads, in my mid 40's I'm now back at university doing a masters degree in crisis management with GIS and remote sensing. No on-line course, youtube video, or anyone on any online forum is going to be able to get you to the level you need to be in Im afraid - this is one you will have to go back to uni to get the right level to be able to help anyone.

As has been stated here, many people think its a case of pick up a drone and drone deploy, click a few points, send the data to the cloud then press a button for a DEM or Point Cloud and give it to the client. You need to be able to manipulate the data into something useful and valid otherwise there is no point.

Mapping is nowhere near a simple as point and shoot, or video, or stills, Ive been researching and learning for the last 2 years and although I can get 1-10cm accurate datasets using my setup, I still decided that a masters was needed to be any good.

 

[MGS]

As stated above, this sector is absolutely massive, I started mapping with an Inspire 2 with X5S with Trimble GNSS system for accurate GCPs. It became apparent very quickly that I needed more help and information to make me any good at this. As I've mentioned on other threads, in my mid 40's I'm now back at university doing a masters degree in crisis management with GIS and remote sensing. No on-line course, youtube video, or anyone on any online forum is going to be able to get you to the level you need to be in Im afraid - this is one you will have to go back to uni to get the right level to be able to help anyone.

As has been stated here, many people think its a case of pick up a drone and drone deploy, click a few points, send the data to the cloud then press a button for a DEM or Point Cloud and give it to the client. You need to be able to manipulate the data into something useful and valid otherwise there is no point.

Mapping is nowhere near a simple as point and shoot, or video, or stills, Ive been researching and learning for the last 2 years and although I can get 1-10cm accurate datasets using my setup, I still decided that a masters was needed to be any good.

Well said!

There is also the ability to be able to post-process satellite and aerial imagery with the same skill set when the project requires it.

 

[bluelight.support]

There is also the ability to be able to post-process satellite and aerial imagery with the same skill set when the project requires it.

Yes ... And also bear in mind most clients will NOT want the private imagery on the cloud, so you will need to invest heavily in equipment. We use Dell Workstations and Mac Pro with ESRI Arc GIS, 3D Correlator, Photoscan Pro, 3D Survey, and QGIS, and am currently running a high resolution 0.77cm/px dataset for an emergency client, who when finished will be able to zoom round the site in full 3D/2D and zoom down to cm level and count the blades of grass. The processing on this is so-far up to 172 hours, as each process is actioned, parameters changed and re-procesed to get the best data. If you are not prepared to go to this level, then move along. Im in the UK but had to invest in air conditioning to keep the computers cool with all the processing. 2 years investment so far and I reckon by the time I finished the masters in 2 years time, I will be one of the uk experts in this field and hopefully go on to phd level.

 

[MGS]

Yes ... And also bear in mind most clients will NOT want the private imagery on the cloud, so you will need to invest heavily in equipment. We use Dell Workstations and Mac Pro with ESRI Arc GIS, 3D Correlator, Photoscan Pro, 3D Survey, and QGIS, and am currently running a high resolution 0.77cm/px dataset for an emergency client, who when finished will be able to zoom round the site in full 3D/2D and zoom down to cm level and count the blades of grass. The processing on this is so-far up to 172 hours, as each process is actioned, parameters changed and re-procesed to get the best data. If you are not prepared to go to this level, then move along. Im in the UK but had to invest in air conditioning to keep the computers cool with all the processing. 2 years investment so far and I reckon by the time I finished the masters in 2 years time, I will be one of the uk experts in this field and hopefully go on to phd level.

Your right on point, all the training is leading to a phd program that's all about soil science. The wormhole just keeps getting deeper!

 

[bluelight.support]

all the training is leading to a phd program that's all about soil science

Im very lucky - I found a course which is earth science based yes, but with a focus on remote sensing, as opposed to one which is interested in social factors, etc. Ive checked - no worms in my study!!!

 

[kallred]

I'm very excited to see this thread. As a surveyor, I'm often disappointed with the pilots that are under the impression they can fly an area, push a button to process the data, and automatically get the results they need with no ground control or editing. As someone with a PhD in Geography and a land surveying instructor, I'm a little biased towards education. I'm not saying an advanced degree is necessary, but a deeper understanding from simply how to fly a drone certainly is.

 

[MGS]

Thank you very much Jerry. I appreciate your time. I got lucky and found out that an old friend is currently in a GIS program at the University of Houston and is going to hook me up with the department head. I'm excited but a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out where to start. I already have two unrelated degrees so the college thing isn't a worry......just the time.

I'm glad you posted this question, the very same question is on my mind all the time. The UAV industry is exploding from all different angles and it's hard to pick a direction.
To better answer your question, I've chosen to focus on the geospatial aspects of UAV sourced data. Meaning, I have a passion for GIS and Cartography, but I've had to go back to school to gain a deeper understanding of the Remote Sensing aspects.

I would consider what you're interested in eg. aerial photography, analysis, agriculture, ect. and research what training is available. Industry-wise things are happening so fast there is no clear course of action to take.

Jerry

 

[LevitatedMedia]

I'm glad you posted this question, the very same question is on my mind all the time. The UAV industry is exploding from all different angles and it's hard to pick a direction.
To better answer your question, I've chosen to focus on the geospatial aspects of UAV sourced data. Meaning, I have a passion for GIS and Cartography, but I've had to go back to school to gain a deeper understanding of the Remote Sensing aspects.

I would consider what you're interested in eg. aerial photography, analysis, agriculture, ect. and research what training is available. Industry-wise things are happening so fast there is no clear course of action to take.

Jerry

Jerry,

This may need to be posted elsewhere based on the current topic however it may fall correctly here, I myself am considering jumping into the agriculture market if I can because I am surrounded by varying farm lands. I however much like the OP would like a better understand my deliverables. That being said, being as new as I am to the drone industry I am one of those who just know about Drone Deploy and that's it... Is there any online resources that may better help me gain knowledge as to what's needed and so on to better serve these clients?

Rob

 

[JakeB826]

I appreciate all of the input and info, as well as the other questions raised. It certainly is a daunting hill to start climbing but that is what hills are for .

I am of the sort that while I understand the academics and the coursework path, I also need to get my hands dirty on the practical side. In my prior career as a police officer/accident reconstructionist, I did quite well in the office crunching the numbers but fieldwork, running a hectic scene and getting quality data was where I excelled. This is why I want to fly a toy helicopter and work in the field....nothing against the office based engineers in the least, I'm just cut out to be a field guy. I regret that I didn't know enough back then to educate myself more with GIS but my needs were based on items relative to each other in a space, not how the space was relative to the world.

I'd like to start in general scene mapping/site photography practice which leads me back to my first burning non-academic question.........can I use a single GPS receiver unit to get actionable GCP point data or do I need a base station PLUS the rover? Can I use just one pole unit and get what I need for BASIC data? I am at a point where I have to rely on third party processing until I see what I am producing, then start working the cm number down from there by earning the advanced experience and coursework.

I'm not looking to provide a client 1-2 cm accurate mapping for a fee right now....I'm trying to take the first steps in getting my feet wet with field work. I'm not at a point where I want to throw thousands into gear to play with, however, so learning and working towards providing a needed product (construction progress, less critically precise mapping, etc) seems like a reasonable first goal to shoot for. Is there a single unit solution for accurate GCP data to then tie in with processing or do I absolutely need a base station and rover to accomplish this?

Like Rob said above, I can see the obvious transition into AG work, as well. I appreciate all of the info everyone has taken the time to provide and the non-condescending manner given. It is hard to expose yourself as a newb and ask questions without getting hammered by the online elite, this forum has been a nice change from that.

 

[bluelight.support]

I'm not looking to provide a client 1-2 cm accurate mapping for a fee right now....I'm trying to take the first steps in getting my feet wet with field work. I'm not at a point where I want to throw thousands into gear to play with, however, so learning and working towards providing a needed product (construction progress, less critically precise mapping, etc) seems like a reasonable first goal to shoot for. Is there a single unit solution for accurate GCP data to then tie in with processing or do I absolutely need a base station and rover to accomplish this?

Im 2 years in and still trying to answer this question - the DJI Phantom 4 gives me around 100-120cm accuracy, the Inspire 1 Pro Black gave me around 70cm, and the Inspire 2 around 40-60cm - this is out of the box with no gap or anything like that.

The second you want ground control points that are accurate is where the fun starts - you have the option of realtime (rtk) or post processed. RTK normally use a rover and base - however the base can normally be a part of a service so you actually only need the rover part and pay for access. Im assuming your in the US which brings up another point that you might get free access to rtk realtime data - in the UK we have to pay around £2k per year for access to this.

Post processed data is normally free again, but requires a further processing step in so far as you download the correct data back at the office then input that and your co-ordinate files - merge them together and get a fix point. Depending on how long you remained on the ground control point will depend on the accuracy of the point. For example if I leave the gnss rover on a point for 10 minutes I might get an accuracy of 100cm, if I leave it on there for 1 hour, I might get 1-10cm.

All this, I'm afraid, depends on what gnss system you get - a survey grade one in the uk is around 12k, although cheaper Chinese ones start at around 4k.

Until you are able to advise what you are trying to actually achieve for deliverables and accuracy, I can't really suggest which kit to look at - that call needs to be made first then you get the equipment to accommodate. And yes- it is a nightmare!!

Im ex-emergency services as well - strange how we all seem to gravitate to operational field work

 

[MGS]

Jerry,

This may need to be posted elsewhere based on the current topic however it may fall correctly here, I myself am considering jumping into the agriculture market if I can because I am surrounded by varying farm lands. I however much like the OP would like a better understand my deliverables. That being said, being as new as I am to the drone industry I am one of those who just know about Drone Deploy and that's it... Is there any online resources that may better help me gain knowledge as to what's needed and so on to better serve these clients?

Rob

Since I finished my Bachelor's in 2010 online training resources have improved exponentially, there are so many great options now. For example, I use to only be able to access the University's software and servers from inside the lab. These days, you can log in through a portal have full access to all kinds of resources allowing you work around jobs, family, and all the stuff life throws at you.
I would search for anything "Remote Sensing", Digital image processing is where I started learning how to process data using various spectral light bands for crop analysis. Drone Deploy, has a ton of crop health analysis tools and with some training, you could produce good deliverables.
In my opinion, Community Colleges are an awesome resource to start with.
Jerry

 

[JakeB826]

Thanks bluelight, that is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for.....unfortunately I always tend to stick on the questions that aren't an easy black and white answer.

I am in the US, Houston, TX more precisely. The environment isn't the greatest but the UAS work opportunities here are starting to really emerge. I have read just a little on the service based GPS systems, I'm thinking that's what I'll be reading up on tomorrow.

When I was writing the previous post I thought of analogy with surveyors and engineers being like a precise mechanical pencil...I'm more like a moderately sharp no 2 pencil....and trying desperately not be a crayon. It is funny how we end up doing this kind of thing after the civil service life, I guess it is the need to be out getting into stuff but still trying to provide something decent at the end of the day. I can't imagine how tough it is to be in that line of work in Europe these days, glad you made it out ok.

 

[JakeB826]

Thank you Jerry, I really appreciate your input.

 

[RMartin]

Thank you very much Jerry. I appreciate your time. I got lucky and found out that an old friend is currently in a GIS program at the University of Houston and is going to hook me up with the department head. I'm excited but a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out where to start. I already have two unrelated degrees so the college thing isn't a worry......just the time.

On a related side note, I'm thinking of getting some field practice in the interim. Am I correct in assuming that with my I1/X3 or 5 I can shoot the ortho flights and reconcile the data with drone deploy or pix4d, etc by simply using ground control points and then uploading them for the post-processing? (I got on this thought train by application of my yellow belt in google-fu....I realize I may be off track) If so, is ONE ground GPS unit to mark/measure my GCPs sufficient or do I need a base station and a rover? I can afford to get something like an Emlid Reach RS if it is that simple, a two station setup may be out of reach. Help Anybody?

I am flying an I1v2 with an X3 for orthos and 3D work in support of construction and mapping and it performs the job. The Inspire does well in the heat and humidity of TX and manages to stay on track in fair winds. The big problem is legs. At best I am getting about 15 minutes of flight time out of a TB47. I can program my flight paths and counter the short legs, but it takes about an hour of flight to cover 20-28 acres.
If you are planning on support specific small sites, the I1 will do you well. If you are flying very large tracts, you are probably going to be better off going to a pro UAS outside of DJI. The price tag is hefty $20,000+, but the coverage (200+ acres per battery/ 45-55 minutes of flight per battery) greatly surpasses what the prosumer drones offer.
Regarding GPS, the I1 is only good to about 1-5 meters of accuracy which for mapping and/or construction is laughable. Adding GCPs into the equation can nail that accuracy down to the instrument you are using to set the control. I personally use a Trimble Geo 7X with a Zephyr antenna to set my GCPs. We have a mapping package installed, which is one step below survey grade, and we are consistently obtaining 0.5" of accuracy with our ortho work.
To answer your question, the initial budget for the chance in tasking should include a decent GPS unit and there are a lot on the market. Mapping grade should suffice for the time being. Adding a base station is going to increase the budget a lot. You are also going to need the software to download and post-process the GPS data which (you guessed it) is sold separately. Another option is to subscribe to a RTK network so that you can skip the post-processing and gather GPS data in real time but you will also need a data puck (such as an Alcatel mobile hotspot) in order to access the RTK network in the field.
For the image work after the fact, we use Pix4D but I have trialed Correlator3D and AgiSoft. I preferred Pix4D mainly because of the ease of use and the hardware requirements matched my workstation.

Finally and in closing (sorry for being a windbag), GIS is where its at right now. The money is on the IT side in programming and writing scripts but analyst do do that shabby either. I received my BS in Geography/GIS in 2012 and its a great field to be in. The smart move would be to enroll in a community college and obtain a certificate (which is a hell of a lot cheaper than a four year degree). If you decide that you like the field after a few years, you can always go back for a masters (UT) or go crazy and look at A&M's drone program at Corpus ( Home | Lone Star UAS Center of Excellence & Innovation ).

 

[MGS]

That program looks pretty cool for the innovation side of the industry. I live in a place that is all about UAV DoD development.

 

[RMartin]

That program looks pretty cool for the innovation side of the industry. I live in a place that is all about UAV DoD development.

Texas is a good place to be in the industry. The weather is more conducive to flight almost year-round and the economic climate is still on the upswing. Your area should be showing a real need for inspections at the moment after the hurricane. Insurance companies will be needing drone services for quite a while during the cleanup process.