Disappointing Range

[F3honda4me]

A quick Google shows you this, but here you go.

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions/Help

Breaking of govt regs IS breaking the law.

And with the new Part 107, the FAA has limited recreational flying to AMA designated flying fields. While I doubt they'd be able to legally restrict recreational flying to AMA field they can still make your life miserable for a while. When the FAA promulgates regulations or rules there is a manner they must do so officially such that it can be catalogued by code, etc. They can't just throw it on a website. If you've looked at cases where people were fined, it had nothing to do with flying out of vlos or over 400' but instead is say violating class D airspace or damaging property etc.

you might want to make sure you understand the law before misstating something as fact.

Sorry but this is incorrect. There is no regulation or rule. To start, 107 doesn't apply to hobbyists. The FAA can put anything they want on their site, it doesn't make it a binding regulation or rule that the people have to follow.

Here is the actual US code in regards to hobbyist flight. First we have the Small UAS Rule (Part 107), however part 107 doesn't apply to hobbyists:

Per the FAA - Part 107 does not apply to UAS flown strictly for fun (hobby or recreational purposes) as long as these unmanned aircraft are flown in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Section 336 of P.L. 112-95). So let's go to the special rule for model aircraft.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf

PL 112-95, also known as Congress Public Law 112-95, section 336 states:

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT. (a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if— (1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use; (2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization; (3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization; (4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport))

In other words, so long as the flight is hobbyist flight, the FAA actually CANT make any rules or regulations regarding it. That's why the FAA did "drone registration" instead, because it's literally the only thing they actually had the power to do when it comes to hobbyist flight.

 

[F3honda4me]

And that number 2 there is the gray area. The FAA does not define what a "nationwide community based organization" is. The AMA is an example of one, but it is not the only one. Since the FAA has no rule or definition of this, the term can be applied extremely broadly. You could create an organization that is you and some friends from other states, and it would fall under that very vague definition. One could join such an organization that does not require LOS. And in regards to the 400 feet AGL, even the AMA doesn't require that. Academy of Model Aeronautics - FAA UAS Frequently Asked Questions
Q: Am I permitted to fly above 400 feet? What if I had to check a box saying otherwise on the federal registration website?
A: Yes. AMA members who abide by the AMA Safety Code, which permits flights above 400 feet under appropriate circumstances, and are protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act.


At the end of the day, the wording on the FAA website has done a great job convincing people that the 400 foot high and LOS guidelines are "rules/regulations", when they are not.

 

[crashburn]

EDIT: After re-reading my post I realized that I am a pompous ***, sorry. Everybody fly safe and have fun.

 

[F3honda4me]

Yea above all else be cognizant and responsible when flying. Common sense goes a long way.

 

[smoak5]

Glad it is clear. Thanks for reminding us of the laws. Now I don't feel so worried that the feds are gonna come down on me. But I totally agree. Common sense is what we need. Don't do anything stupid to ruin it for the thousands (millions?) of us hobbyists!

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

From the link I posted:
'Option #1. Fly in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Public Law 112-95 Section 336). Under this rule, operators must:

• Fly for hobby or recreational purposes only
• Follow a community-based set of safety guidelines
• Fly the UAS within visual line-of-sight
• Give way to manned aircraft
• Provide prior notification to the airport and air traffic control tower, if one is present, when flying within 5 miles of an airport
• Fly UAS that weigh no more than 55 lbs. unless certified by a community-based organization
• Register the aircraft (UAS over 0.55 lbs. and less than 55 lbs. can be registered online at registermyuas.faa.gov; UAS 55 lbs. or greater must be registered through the FAA's paper-based process)'

I' not sure which part you are having trouble understanding. If you insist on interpreting it your way, that's fine.

So, if you're correct and the FAA has essentially no authority over recreational use aircraft, then NONE of the above rules can apply and recreational aircraft can just fly at whatever altitude they want and fly wherever they want as long as they don't interfere with full size aircraft.

So, if that's the case, and you are flying beyond line of site, how can you tell if you're interfering with full size aircraft should one suddenly come flying by?? Whether an airport is nearby is not an indicator as you can have helicopters flying in the area and may need to land. And flying beyond line of site means that if something should go wrong with the automated systems, you can't control the aircraft to land it safely.

 

[F3honda4me]

From the link I posted:
'Option #1. Fly in accordance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Public Law 112-95 Section 336). Under this rule, operators must:

• Fly for hobby or recreational purposes only
• Follow a community-based set of safety guidelines
• Fly the UAS within visual line-of-sight
• Give way to manned aircraft
• Provide prior notification to the airport and air traffic control tower, if one is present, when flying within 5 miles of an airport
• Fly UAS that weigh no more than 55 lbs. unless certified by a community-based organization
• Register the aircraft (UAS over 0.55 lbs. and less than 55 lbs. can be registered online at registermyuas.faa.gov; UAS 55 lbs. or greater must be registered through the FAA's paper-based process)'

I' not sure which part you are having trouble understanding. If you insist on interpreting it your way, that's fine.

So, if you're correct and the FAA has essentially no authority over recreational use aircraft, then NONE of the above rules can apply and recreational aircraft can just fly at whatever altitude they want and fly wherever they want as long as they don't interfere with full size aircraft.

So, if that's the case, and you are flying beyond line of site, how can you tell if you're interfering with full size aircraft should one suddenly come flying by?? Whether an airport is nearby is not an indicator as you can have helicopters flying in the area and may need to land. And flying beyond line of site means that if something should go wrong with the automated systems, you can't control the aircraft to land it safely.

Once again, the only place you can find any reference to that is that web page. Nowhere in section 336 does the LOS "rule" exist. So the FAA literally lied on their website. I even linked the full bill with the full text of 336.

And the reason the above rules DO apply (excluding the los one) is because they are in the bill congress passed. NOT the FAA!

The FAA has done a great job convincing everyone these are regulations that they came up with when in fact congress is that one that made them.

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

Look, you can interpret anything you want, then sort it out with the FAA later if that makes you feel better. Directly from the document YOU posted above, it clearly defines a 'Model Aircraft in this way:

(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is— (1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
H.R.658—68 (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

Which, by that definition means if you fly BVLOS, you are no longer a model aircraft, but an Unmanned Aerial System which Falls under the regulation, which of course covers BVLOS.

So, no, the FAA didn't lie as much as you'd like to think they did. You can do whatever you want, I'm just telling you that flying above 400 ft and BVLOS is against the law. There is really no disputing that, unless you are a federal judge.

 

[F3honda4me]

Look, you can interpret anything you want, then sort it out with the FAA later if that makes you feel better. Directly from the document YOU posted above, it clearly defines a 'Model Aircraft in this way:

(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is— (1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
H.R.658—68 (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

Which, by that definition means if you fly BVLOS, you are no longer a model aircraft, but an Unmanned Aerial System which Falls under the regulation, which of course covers BVLOS.

So, no, the FAA didn't lie as much as you'd like to think they did. You can do whatever you want, I'm just telling you that flying above 400 ft and BVLOS is against the law. There is really no disputing that, unless you are a federal judge.

Aha! See now you are right in the VLOS and I was wrong. I did not see that they included VLOS as part of the definition. So I stand corrected! I'm glad you pointed it out in the document.

But I still don't see the 400 foot height limit anywhere in the regulations. The fact that even the AMA says you can fly above 400 feet makes me think this is not a rule anywhere as well.

 

[Steve@AerialImagesPro]

It's implicitly stated in this line:
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; Since full size aircraft operate with a floor of 500 ft and 100ft clearance is typical between flight levels, 400 ft is the max height ANY UAS can go (without a COA), otherwise you could interfere with manned aircraft..

At the speed manned aircraft can fly, they can be in your airspace before you realize it. Yes, if you're in the desert or wide open area it is unlikely a manned aircraft will sneak up on you, but the law doesn't leave room for someone to be the judge of that.

 

[F3honda4me]

It's implicitly stated in this line:
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; Since full size aircraft operate with a floor of 500 ft and 100ft clearance is typical between flight levels, 400 ft is the max height ANY UAS can go (without a COA), otherwise you could interfere with manned aircraft..

At the speed manned aircraft can fly, they can be in your airspace before you realize it. Yes, if you're in the desert or wide open area it is unlikely a manned aircraft will sneak up on you, but the law doesn't leave room for someone to be the judge of that.

That's open to interpretation. We will leave it at that. By your definition we couldn't fly more than a few feet off the ground since helicopters are allowed to fly below 400 feet and are capable of great speeds as well.

And again the AMA which is fully recognized by the FAA even says you can go over 400 feet.

Agree to disagree.

 

[crashburn]

My young son can see a couple of miles on a clear day, I'm old and can't see past my nose. The ground here is very unlevel, and in some places my Go app shows 300 feet but my drones is only 100 feet above the ground, in other places my Go app shows 100 feet and my drone is over 500 feet above ground. So, every time I fly I'm illegal. I'm too old to care, FAA come get me. In the meantime I'm flying and having fun.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[amorrison]

A quick Google shows you this, but here you go.

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions/Help

Breaking of govt regs IS breaking the law.

And with the new Part 107, the FAA has limited recreational flying to AMA designated flying fields. While I doubt they'd be able to legally restrict recreational flying to AMA field they can still make your life miserable for a while.

you might want to make sure you understand the law before misstating something as fact.

* deleted*


Sent from my iPad using InspirePilots

 

[Orange1234]

My young son can see a couple of miles on a clear day, I'm old and can't see past my nose. The ground here is very unlevel, and in some places my Go app shows 300 feet but my drones is only 100 feet above the ground, in other places my Go app shows 100 feet and my drone is over 500 feet above ground. So, every time I fly I'm illegal. I'm too old to care, FAA come get me. In the meantime I'm flying and having fun.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Nothing to worry about I do all my range test over water and farmland and 8 miles away from any airports and kept my aircraft under 400ft sometimes under 200ft had no problems here is my stats with healthydrones over 4250km never had a crash or any problems.
On my inspire 2 I got upto 18,000ft under 200ft over water no signal loss landed with 18% battery winds 4 mph.

 

[VisionAir]

I have a better location where I could probably get more range, but my first test is disappointing

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Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I loose signal to the point where it enters RTH and I am only 300m (1000ft) away (2.4Ghz)

 

[J Nelson]

I am using these external antennas with magnetic base. Zero dropouts. Coverage in all directions. Still breaking batteries in but 30,000ft plus is no problem with these.

2.4 GHz 9 dBi Desktop Omni Antenna - 4ft RP-SMA Connector - RE09U-RSP

 

[dutz]

Same problem here:

I tried with 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz and it's difficult to reach 1.8 km !!! (in CE mode)

And normally it should go up to 3.5km... ???

I really hope they will correct that with an update !!!!

From the official tech specs:
2.4 GHz: 4.3 miles (7 km, FCC); 2.2 miles (3.5 km, CE); 2.5 miles (4 km, SRRC)
5.8 GHz: 4.3 miles (7 km, FCC); 1.2 miles (2 km, CE); 3.1 miles (5 km, SRRC)

 

[Raphael Dahan]

I am using these external antennas with magnetic base. Zero dropouts. Coverage in all directions. Still breaking batteries in but 30,000ft plus is no problem with these.

2.4 GHz 9 dBi Desktop Omni Antenna - 4ft RP-SMA Connector - RE09U-RSP

Nelson, can you please post a pic, to see how you connect the antenna to your RC.
Thanks in advance.

 

[J Nelson]

Nelson, can you please post a pic, to see how you connect the antenna to your RC.
Thanks in advance.

 

[J Nelson]

Sorry the above pic is for my p4p but I mostly use this remote for the inspire 2. It works just fine.