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EL Mode after Latest Firmware

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#1
Just installed the latest firmware. Could not complete it with my iPad Mini 4 (3 tries). Finally completed it with DJI Assistant. Had to refresh the firmware with each set of batteries.

Noticed changes in most settings and a new EL mode in the video controls that enables log and allows 100-1600 which I presume is ISO. I tried 100 and 400 and could not see noise difference indoors. Need more testing.

On a positive note - there were no distracting pop-ups on the screen when I change ISO, shutter speed and F Stop!

Does anyone have additional information?

Thanks in advance.

Barry
 
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#2
My RC sticks needed calibration as the percentages were off on the first go round. I also did a IMU, compass, and the VPS plate calibration for good measure.
 
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#5
Anyone else missing EV when shooting in manual in DLog with El Mode?

View attachment 16955

Positive is that we're no longer locked to ISO 500 in DLog as @BarryBittman mentioned, here you can see 100 :)

CineCore 2.1 seems to clean up noise nicely even with the X5S.
I see the same, no EV when shooting in manual in DLog with El Mode.
 
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#6
So I guess the meter makers like Sekonic will need to come out with a new EI scale on their meters to satisfy this?

DJI is making this far too difficult, imho.
 
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#7
I'm not sure why people expect to have EV (Exposure Compensation) in manual mode. Only way to change EV is in Auto mode, or A (Aperture priority) and S (Shutter priority). The whole point of Manual mode is to purposely select both ISO, shutter and aperture, so how would one change those settings in manual mode by use of EV?

BTW, manual is the only mode selectable in EI, but if EI is off, one can use all modes and EV is available in all modes, including manual (it changes the ISO as EV is changed, so 1 stop changes only).

I suggest that users play around with all the different combination of settings in both EI on and off to understand the options available.

Not so different from most DSLR cameras, BTW.
 
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#8
I'd guess that it's basically because ISO is locked at 500 which is the native ISO according to DJI, hence by changing the EI up or down, you are effectively manipulating the EV± value and under or overexposing the image.

Effectively same thing, just a different way of denoting it I guess.
 
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#9
I'd guess that it's basically because ISO is locked at 500 which is the native ISO according to DJI, hence by changing the EI up or down, you are effectively manipulating the EV± value and under or overexposing the image.

Effectively same thing, just a different way of denoting it I guess.
ISO is no longer locked at 500 with the FW update.
 
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#10
Lots of folks complained when we were locked at 500. Now we have the opportunity to change the effective iso with dlog.

I don’t think this is complicated. Use the histogram and expose a bit to the right.

I personally appreciate DJI’s willingness to make this available.
 
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#11
Exposure Index (EI) works in the way that there is valid Log curve set only for one base (native) sensitivity (ISO) while other sensitivities are derivatives of that baseline. There is whitepaper on new D-Log D-Gamut published next to X7 camera, while it is for X5S and X7 is not metioned there.
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/zenmuse+x7/20171010/D-Log_D-Gamut_Whitepaper.pdf

So, by reaidng this whitepaper I see that baseline sensitivity is ISO 1600, where curve tops at value 1023. You can use lower sensitivityu, as low as ISO 100 to supress noise in shadows on expense of dynamic range. When using these lower senisitvity curves, max value will drop as well - so opting for lower EI works similar as ofseting in post.
 
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#12
I've been using the update for a few days now and I find the footage to be less noisy and the color looks better. Even when I have a little noise very little luma NR is removing it in Davinci Resolve 14 Studio. For exposure I am using the Wave Form monitor. It works really well for me. If you aren't familar with it, the wave form monitor can be turned on in the Camera settings, near the top of the list. It shows in the FPV window and can be turned on and off, as you need it.
 
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#13
I've been using the update for a few days now and I find the footage to be less noisy and the color looks better. Even when I have a little noise very little luma NR is removing it in Davinci Resolve 14 Studio. For exposure I am using the Wave Form monitor. It works really well for me. If you aren't familar with it, the wave form monitor can be turned on in the Camera settings, near the top of the list. It shows in the FPV window and can be turned on and off, as you need it.
May I aks you which EI sensitivity did you test - 100, 200, 400, 800 or 1600? It seems from the whitepaper that curve scales so max. value shifts down as you chose lower EI - what waveform value did you choose for middle gray and what was your highlight value?
Then, did you test how new D-Log works when coded 8bit H264 on SD card?
My experience is that former D-Log 500 was optimized for 8bit H264, while new EI curve seems to make many problems with 8bit H264...
 
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#14
First I want to say that I have read a number of your posts and clearly you have a much deeper knowledge and understanding of this than I do. I also wanted to thank you for translating the white paper for us. So here goes...

My test was fairly simple in nature. I wanted to get an idea if there was much noise difference between 100, 200, 400, 800, and 1600. So I shot clips at each setting and adjusted with NDs and aperture. I was really only working with the highlights and keeping an eye on the shadows. I adjusted until I had a solid white line at the top of the wave form monitor and then backed it down until that went away. It was about 896 on a scale of 0-1023 and the shadows were touching the top of the 256 range. What I found in my simple test was that all the ranges appeared to have less noise than my ISO 500 footage. I also saw the increase in dynamic range most significantly at 1600. I didn't realize that 1600 was the baseline for this Log until I read you comment above. Thank you!

What I really want to do is take my video reference card in the back yard and record that at each ISO setting, and exposure for middle gray and noting where the highlights and shadows fall. Do you know what IRE to use for exposing for middle gray with this new curve?

I haven't tested the h.264 yet because I don't use it much. It sound like you are seeing problems with the new curve and H.264.
 
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#15
First I want to say that I have read a number of your posts and clearly you have a much deeper knowledge and understanding of this than I do. I also wanted to thank you for translating the white paper for us. So here goes...

My test was fairly simple in nature. I wanted to get an idea if there was much noise difference between 100, 200, 400, 800, and 1600. So I shot clips at each setting and adjusted with NDs and aperture. I was really only working with the highlights and keeping an eye on the shadows. I adjusted until I had a solid white line at the top of the wave form monitor and then backed it down until that went away. It was about 896 on a scale of 0-1023 and the shadows were touching the top of the 256 range. What I found in my simple test was that all the ranges appeared to have less noise than my ISO 500 footage. I also saw the increase in dynamic range most significantly at 1600. I didn't realize that 1600 was the baseline for this Log until I read you comment above. Thank you!

What I really want to do is take my video reference card in the back yard and record that at each ISO setting, and exposure for middle gray and noting where the highlights and shadows fall. Do you know what IRE to use for exposing for middle gray with this new curve?

I haven't tested the h.264 yet because I don't use it much. It sound like you are seeing problems with the new curve and H.264.
Thanks @CP Anson for your info.
 
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#16
First I want to say that I have read a number of your posts and clearly you have a much deeper knowledge and understanding of this than I do. I also wanted to thank you for translating the white paper for us. So here goes...

My test was fairly simple in nature. I wanted to get an idea if there was much noise difference between 100, 200, 400, 800, and 1600. So I shot clips at each setting and adjusted with NDs and aperture. I was really only working with the highlights and keeping an eye on the shadows. I adjusted until I had a solid white line at the top of the wave form monitor and then backed it down until that went away. It was about 896 on a scale of 0-1023 and the shadows were touching the top of the 256 range. What I found in my simple test was that all the ranges appeared to have less noise than my ISO 500 footage. I also saw the increase in dynamic range most significantly at 1600. I didn't realize that 1600 was the baseline for this Log until I read you comment above. Thank you!

What I really want to do is take my video reference card in the back yard and record that at each ISO setting, and exposure for middle gray and noting where the highlights and shadows fall. Do you know what IRE to use for exposing for middle gray with this new curve?

I haven't tested the h.264 yet because I don't use it much. It sound like you are seeing problems with the new curve and H.264.
Than you for detailed info, I really appreciate your input.

To my best knowledge, middle gray output as well as top white output should vary as you change EI sensitivity - output drops as you lower sensitivity due to curve scaling. According to the whitepaper, for EI 1600 middle gray shoud sit at value 408 what is approximately 40IRE. For lower EI middle gray would be mapped to some lower value - exact data is not published while I did not test it either... So, I kindly ask you to share your findings if you make that chart tests.

Regarding baseline sensitivity, while base response curve is defined as EI 1600, I guess by reading the whitepaper that it is optimized for 15 stops of DR, what is above capabilities of X5S. As X5S has theoretical DR of 12.8 stops it seems that EI which has best balance of DR and noise for X5S is EI 400 - marked with green line in GO App.

Just as an sidenote - your info confirms that new EI Log curves are optimized for 10bit ProRes encoding, while it seems to me that 8bit H264 proxies shoud be recorded in some Rec709 flavor in order to be usable.
 
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#18
Wow, I had no idea of all these camera changes on new Firmware. I had to upgrade it because my drone was throwing tons of random errors all of a sudden.

First reaction on my X5S is this image looks a little flatter than older DLOG, this reminds me of very flat SLOG2 which should work well for grading when in ProRes codec.

Anyone else have any feedback on ISO & Dynamic Range. Does ISO 100 have worse dynamic range than ISO 400. I see this green line on the ISO slider, is that the X5S native ISO?
 

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