I see the police I start kissing azz. Operation is over and out. Ran across that article thought about you Florida guy's. Well hopefully the fine gentlemen in law enforcement are better educated on what's allowed and not allowed.
I see the police I start kissing azz. Operation is over and out. Ran across that article thought about you Florida guy's. Well hopefully the fine gentlemen in law enforcement are better educated on what's allowed and not allowed.Also Popo's have no authority as far as airspace, they can arrive with an FAA official to provide security but that's about all.
Yea I'm not really big on that, I abide by the law not kowtow to it.I see the police I start kissing azz. Operation is over and out. Ran across that article thought about you Florida guy's. Well hopefully the fine gentlemen in law enforcement are better educated on what's allowed and not allowed.
In my earlier post I repeated information given to me but which further investigation shows to be at least partially erroneous.
While flying at Oleta State Park here in Miami on 10/2 a Miami Dade sheriffs helicopter buzzed the area then called the park rangers stating that I had to cease operations because drones could not be flown from the park, while Miami Dade Parks and Recreation parks do have prohibitions on drone flights no such language exists in the rules for Florida's State Parks (Florida State Park Rules | Florida State Parks). It is also not a no fly zone. Of course me being the obnoxious sob I am I did compose a message to the Miami Dade Aviation Department.
Hello,
While flying my drone on October 2d at Oleta State Park, below 200' ft (most of Florida is at sea level plus or minus a few feet), one of your aircraft buzzed the area I was operating in ( even then I was four feet off the ground discharging my battery) and called the park telling them drone flights are restricted there. This is absolutely erroneous, I have been given permission by the rangers and have been flying there for quite awhile. Further the airspace is absolutely not a no fly zone nor were any FAA flight restrictions in place at the time of my flight. I am a retired firefighter and respect the guys have a job to do, kindly insure they know the correct information and not simply make them up on the fly. I will continue to fly my drone there pursuant to FAA and Florida State Park regulations which your pilots can easily acces online.
Florida State Park Rules | Florida State Parks
To the wonderful members of of this forum I apologize for not researching information prior to posting.
Not sure what your zoom level is but Oleta is definitely NOT within the b4ufly buffer zone, by a very large margin. I am legal. my flight level was 154' and 312' down range, even if I went up to 400', I'm a hobbyist and the rules for hobbyists are simple and clear enough. If and when it becomes absolutely necessary I'll consider it. But until the maybe it's those suffering from Drone Madness that should do a bit more studying.Using the B4UFLY app I see four airports that you would need to give airport operators prior notice of your operation in Oleta State Park. Did you do this?
The four airports near Oleta State Park are all helicopter fields. Helicopter will frequently fly lower than 200' as you clearly noted.
While many find this type of prior notice unreasonable you must remember it was Congress intention to protect model airplanes and their air fleilds from the "FAA promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft". This airport operator notification is not unreasonable if you are intending to setup an AMA RC model aircraft flying field.
Model aircraft and their flying fields have safely coexisted with the NAS and other manned aircraft with out incidents such what you have reported. Congress wanted to make sure the FAA did not over regulate RC aircraft that has already been proven to be reasonably safe. This is why they wrote Public Law 112-95 Section 336, to protect model aircraft not UAS.
The the same stroke of the pen Congress wrote into law Section 335 which states "The Administrator of the FAA shall carry out all safety studies necessary to support the integration of UAS into the NAS." The FAA has now done so by writing Part 107.
In the language of PL 112-95 Section 335 and 336 there is a clear distinction between model aircraft and UAS. Have you ever heard a UAS operator call his UAS a model aircraft? Have you ever heard an RC Model Aircraft enthusiast call his airplane a UAS? Do not try to convince your self that a UAS is a model aircraft, no reasonable person would believe you.
The good news is you do not want your UAS to be a model aircraft as the FAA has given you a wonderful gift. What the FAA did do is make it possible to fly a UAS in Oleta State Park under Part 107 as all of this Park is Class G airspace.
It is extremely difficult to legally operate in Oleta State Park under Part 101 and extremely easy under Part 107 as long as you are a certified remote pilot.
Start studying and take the test, I am confident that you would find the remote pilot certificate very useful in situation like this. I am sure that Oleta State Park is a wonderful place to fly a drone and that you can safely fly there. Why not make it legal too?
Y
View attachment 10171
I'm using Hover which I downloaded from the FAA website and I've been flying at Oleta since January and the information I have is totally different
Maybe American English isn't your thingI see no reference to hobbyists in the regulations or PL 112-95. Can you explain what the rules for hobbyist are and enlighten the rest of us?
Also what is a b4ufly buffer zone and what does 312' down range mean? Perhaps this is explained in the hobbyist rules?
Maybe American English isn't your thing
When you started the conversation you suggested I downloaded the Hover app from the FAA. Already have it. Now obviously the app you're using isn't Hover. Please refer to that and you will clearly see by the very app the FAA distributes Oleta is well outside the 5 mile radius of the airports you're seeing. Otherwise believe and do as you see fit I have no intention of this devolving any furtherPerhaps this FAA explanation from the FAA B4UFLY Q&A page will help us understand.
Q. Why is there a 5-mile radius around all airports?
A. The Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Section 336 of Public Law 112-95) specifies that “when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the [model] aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.” This rule applies to operators flying for hobby or recreational purposes only.
When I'm not the firing range I'm flying somewhere. Key Biscayne has a nice area to fly by the old stadium even though there's a seaplane base nearby@SultanGris
You still flying for fun or is it over...
They crushed me Mac I can't risk 10k or 20k.When I'm not the firing range I'm flying somewhere. Key Biscayne has a nice area to fly by the old stadium even though there's a seaplane base nearby
For the record, only when I was flying my drone they'll confiscate your drone and keep it until next summer.kowtow to it.
Not it's not that bad, the seaplane base is pretty much that in name only, they readily give permission to fly, obviously pointing out if you see or hear an approaching aircraft give way, our American Legion owns a bit of waterfront out of established flight paths, and failing that I've got 55 acres in rural South Carolina I can fly my heart out on, and shoot to my hearts content, in fact the hunting club I lease to may ask for videos of deer trails. There is just so many folks trying to reinterpret the rules instead of just reading the plain language, (K.I.S.S) and so many new FAA reinterpretation experts , it's just downright daunting. If Hover shows me a clear patch of sky and I can takeoff from land or sea respecting critical infrastructure and private property I'm flying brother.View attachment 10172
They crushed me Mac I can't risk 10k or 20k.
I'm joking but I'm serious freaking seaplanes heliports hospitals it's over. I'm down in Greensboro NC now. I thought about bringing my drone/baby but for what to get myself in trouble. I got my dirt in early. Part 107 is gone break some pockets.
Talk about firing ranges I've learned to appreciate republican states. Ny is a police state and Nc is freedom. Oddest thing
Last year it was legal to fly in Greensboro things done changed now this blu-fly crap.
Sign sign signs
@William Gaddy thank you for the clarification.So, maybe I can help clear up some confusion here, with the disclaimer that I Am Not A Lawyer, and any advice I give here is taken at your own risk; consult your own attorney. I have here in front of me the ASA's FAR/AIM 2017 Edition, which includes the newly-minted Part 107. I also have a printed copy of the AMA's rules and bylaws, to include the Academy of Model Aeronautics National Model Aircraft Safety Code, which you agree to follow upon becoming a member. All of that is available here:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/memanual.pdf
First, let's review again the 14 CFR Part 101, Subpart E:
(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
So, this part "operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines" does NOT mean that you can only fly at an AMA sanctioned event, and doesn't require that you even be a member of the AMA... only that you follow their guidelines when you, say, fly in your backyard.
When they say "programming of a nationwide community-based organization" this is probably where the confusion comes in.
To quote from [Docket No. FAA-2014-0396] Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, available here: https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf
The FAA is issuing this interpretation because we have received many inquiries regarding the scope of the special rule for model aircraft in section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 and the FAA’s enforcement authority over model aircraft as affirmed by the statute. ...
...See Advisory Circular 91-57, Model Aircraft Operating Standards (June 9, 1981)...
...Section 336(a)(2) requires model aircraft to be operated within a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization. Congress explained that it intended “nationwide community-based organization” to mean, in part, a “membership based association that represents the aeromodeling community within the Unites States; [and] provides its members a comprehensive set of safety guidelines that underscores safe aeromodeling operations within the National Airspace System and the protection and safety of the general public on the ground . . . .” U.S. House, FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Conference Report (to Accompany H.R. 658), 112 H. Rpt. 381 (Feb. 1, 2012) (discussion of special rule for model aircraft). Based on this language, which provides context to Congress’ use of the term “nationwide community-based organization,” the FAA expects that model aircraft operations conducted under section 336(a) will be operated according to those guidelines...
Ok so the FAA says you can fly Part 101 if you adhere to AMA's or some other organization's guidelines. Nowhere do they say you have to be a member. Let's look at AMA's rules, to see if you can only fly at AMA sanctioned events if you DO follow their "rules":
1. Model aircraft will not be flown:
(a) In a careless or reckless manner.
(b) At a location where model aircraft activities are prohibited.
Nope, you just have to follow their rules (which generally mirror Part 107). If an LEO or an FAA inspector shows up, however, it'd be good to have an AMA card, a logbook, and a ops manual to smooth things over. Let alone a Part 107 cert.
Cheers
There appears to be some folks who spent tons of money for flight certification but lacks basic knowledge of terms and colloquialisms like Flight level, downrange, or hobbyists. There are dictionaries for that and once those basic ideas are grasped this is an excerpt copied and pasted from the federal register.
4. MODEL AIRCRAFT
The NPRM proposed that part 107 would not apply to model aircraft that satisfy all of the criteria specified in section 336 of Public Law 112-95. Section 336(c) defines a model aircraft as an “unmanned aircraft that is—(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.” Subsection 336(a) specifically prohibits the FAA from promulgating rules regarding model aircraft that meet all of the following statutory criteria:
K.I.S.S
- The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
- The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
- The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certificated through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;Start Printed Page 42081
- The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
- When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.
Thanks for the edumaction Dave.NPRM Stands for "notice of proposed rule making". This is no longer a proposal and has now been incorporated into the FARs and are now under Part 101 of the regulations. All the items you mentioned are incorporated into Part 101 now.
While the Hover app you mention does include some airports it does not included all airports. Nor do they claim to include all airports. An airport is defined in Part 1 of the regulations as "an area of land or water that is used or intended to be used for the landing and takeoff of aircraft, and includes its buildings and facilities, if any."
Hover as does DJI uses maps provided by airmap.io
Unfortunately airmap.io have ignored the regulations in deciding what airports to include on the map. In addition they have created no-fly zones that do not correspond to Part 101, Part 107, the NPRM you mentioned or P.L. 112-95. Best I can tell they are basically doing their own thing.
The FAA has created an app call B4UFLY. You can down load it free of charge but if you are within 5 miles of an airport you get the message: "You are within 5 miles of an airport. By Law you must notify the airport operator and the air traffic control tower (if one is present) of your flight."
Most of my city, as I am sure most of yours, will provide this ominous message in the B4UFLY app. From what I can tell the FAA B4UFLY app matches the regulations and Hover, DJI and airmap.io do not.
Fortunately for Part 107 operators it is based on airspace. If you are within class G airspace as is most of my city you may fly without notifying any airports of your flight. Unfortunately in some class G airspace DJI will not let you leave the ground as they are using the airmap.io data and blocking flights.
Part 101, based on P.L. 112-95, is overly restrictive for model aircraft because of the five mile rule. You can blame Congress for this, remember the FAA did not write P.L. 112-95 but the FAA must follow the law as it is written.
Fly for FunNPRM Stands for "notice of proposed rule making". This is no longer a proposal and has now been incorporated into the FARs and are now under Part 101 of the regulations. All the items you mentioned are incorporated into Part 101 now.
While the Hover app you mention does include some airports it does not included all airports. Nor do they claim to include all airports. An airport is defined in Part 1 of the regulations as "an area of land or water that is used or intended to be used for the landing and takeoff of aircraft, and includes its buildings and facilities, if any."
Hover as does DJI uses maps provided by airmap.io
Unfortunately airmap.io have ignored the regulations in deciding what airports to include on the map. In addition they have created no-fly zones that do not correspond to Part 101, Part 107, the NPRM you mentioned or P.L. 112-95. Best I can tell they are basically doing their own thing.
The FAA has created an app call B4UFLY. You can down load it free of charge but if you are within 5 miles of an airport you get the message: "You are within 5 miles of an airport. By Law you must notify the airport operator and the air traffic control tower (if one is present) of your flight."
Most of my city, as I am sure most of yours, will provide this ominous message in the B4UFLY app. From what I can tell the FAA B4UFLY app matches the regulations and Hover, DJI and airmap.io do not.
Fortunately for Part 107 operators it is based on airspace. If you are within class G airspace as is most of my city you may fly without notifying any airports of your flight. Unfortunately in some class G airspace DJI will not let you leave the ground as they are using the airmap.io data and blocking flights.
Part 101, based on P.L. 112-95, is overly restrictive for model aircraft because of the five mile rule. You can blame Congress for this, remember the FAA did not write P.L. 112-95 but the FAA must follow the law as it is written.
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