Looking for clarification on Airspace,

[rockjock10]

Hey all, looking for a bit of help reading the sectional chart below. I've outlined an area in Red that I'm trying to sort out whether or not needs additional Airspace Authorization to fly in. Assuming flying inside Red outline, SFC - 400 AGL; is there need for an Airspace COA thru the portal? From what I can tell, it should be okay, but want to bounce this off others who have more experience in reading/understanding this more complicated airspace. I'm only curious about airspace please, not looking for comments on land based authorizations; film permits, state parks etc. Cheers

 

[nabarbieri]

Should be good to go. Nice busy area though, keep alert.

Nik

 

[licensed pilot]

Hey all, looking for a bit of help reading the sectional chart below. I've outlined an area in Red that I'm trying to sort out whether or not needs additional Airspace Authorization to fly in. Assuming flying inside Red outline, SFC - 400 AGL; is there need for an Airspace COA thru the portal? From what I can tell, it should be okay, but want to bounce this off others who have more experience in reading/understanding this more complicated airspace. I'm only curious about airspace please, not looking for comments on land based authorizations; film permits, state parks etc. Cheers
View attachment 17732

concur with nabarbieri, ground elevation not high enough to get you into any controlled airspace.

 

[Casey53]

Correct answer is "NO."

Check it in Airmap: AirMap Web App

That area in red in the above link (Santa Monica Mountains) is a National Recreation Area controlled by the National Park Service which is pretty much anti-drone. I wouldn't be surprised if they could cite you for flying there unless you overflew it from outside their easement (Whatever distance they claim that to be!). I recall something about one ranch or farm in the red zone where they did allow RC aircraft and drones to be flown in (Found it, "Paramount Ranch" below.)

It's listed as a "No Fly Zone" in hivemapper too. Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area Drone No-Fly Zone - Hivemapper Drone Map
https://hivemapper.com/34.068510193...untains-national-rec-57771c9aef2613531014be21
Here is the quote from the Superintendent of the Santa Monica Mountains Recreation Area in this link: https://www.nps.gov/samo/learn/management/upload/SAMO_SUPT_COMPENDIUM_2017_FINAL.pdf
Unmanned Aircraft:
"Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on
lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of
Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area is prohibited except as approved in
writing by the superintendent. The Paramount Ranch North Race Track Loop has been
designated as an approved area for unmanned aircraft based on a historic use pattern.

All users of unmanned aircraft must comply with FAA Regulations (Refer to and comply
with FAA Advisory Circular 91-57A). Use of this area must be closed at any time due to
fire danger or necessary control of airspace."

Note too how far the red boundary extends into LA now too. That extension occurred last year I think.

 

[licensed pilot]

His question was whether he needed an authorization. The correct answer is that he does not. The NPS does not have any control over airspace, only the land.

I must be getting old because I do not see anything in the circled red area designating a national park...

 

[Eshorvath]

His question was whether he needed an authorization. The correct answer is that he does not. The NPS does not have any control over airspace, only the land.

I must be getting old because I do not see anything in the circled red area designating a national park...

Casey is correct, that is a no fly zone. National park. Would not be on the sectional, as manned aircraft are not restricted. Airmap is a great way to check.

 

[licensed pilot]

NPS can only prohibit landing and takeoff within the park and only the FAA can establish any "No fly zones."
His question was whether he needed an FAA authorization. The correct answer is that he does not. The NPS does not have any control over airspace, only the land.

 

[Casey53]

Given the amount of land circled by the OP, flight would be contraindicated due to the VLOS rule as well as the battery time. I know from the Parks Dept. that even though an entrance gate or sign may show "Entering xx Park" that their easement may lie a mile out from that into some BLM or Forest area and the Park Ranger can call the flight on a VLOS violation.

Whenever I see SFC on a "Sectional" map, I immediately know that 90% of that will pertain to launching of a drone given the land use in the area, be it a NFZ, TFR, or some local ordinance they pull out of their hat to shut me down - and have. The upper "To 400 feet" is the other 10% and not of any great concern within the FAA ruling. In the air, one may be fine according to the normal aircraft sectionals, but a lot of low-altitude drone flight we do now has exclusions shown in some sUAV maps based on some NFZ set by some school, prison, stadium, critical infrastructure, or whatever, but SFC is a much bigger hindrance to our flying than what we take it for and should not be omitted, imho.

 

[licensed pilot]

"Whenever I see SFC on a "Sectional" map, I immediately know that 90% of that will pertain to launching of a drone"

Nope. Sectional charts have been around since Lindbergh learned to fly. SFC just means air traffic control has an interest in being aware what flies in that immediate airspace around the airport . Simply a portion of the inverted wedding cake at class B/C airports.

" Given the amount of land circled by the OP, flight would be contraindicated due to the VLOS rule as well as the battery time. I know from the Parks Dept. that even though an entrance gate or sign may show "Entering xx Park" that their easement may lie a mile out from that into some BLM or Forest area and the Park Ranger can call the flight on a VLOS violation."

Understood, that's a pilot planning issue. Not the airspace question OP asked.

"NFZ set by some school, prison, stadium, critical infrastructure"

Who cares what some school claims as their NFZ. Apps are full of little circles telling you where you can't fly, 90% meaningless. I am a certificated pilot, I rely on Sectionals, not little apps aimed at hobbysts. I recently flew a job near Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. The area is infected with little circles; schools, heliports...so what. I obtained my FAA authorization via LAANC and that's the only authorization I need. In my state (AZ) state law addresses critical infrastructures and only a nut case, or a criminal, would fly over a prison.

 

[Eric Braun]

NPS can only prohibit landing and takeoff within the park and only the FAA can establish any "No fly zones."
His question was whether he needed an FAA authorization. The correct answer is that he does not. The NPS does not have any control over airspace, only the land.

This is correct. We've been trying to get a permit to fly in the GGNRA for a long time. They refuse. The lady who handles permits is really nice, though. But her hands are tied. She says, "Hire a boat. Take off from there. Then you can fly over the GGNRA."

 

[Ravenflight]

NPS can only prohibit landing and takeoff within the park and only the FAA can establish any "No fly zones."
His question was whether he needed an FAA authorization. The correct answer is that he does not. The NPS does not have any control over airspace, only the land.

My understanding was that the FAA restricts commercial flights over national parks, wildernesses and tribal lands below at least 2000' AGL but possibly as high as 5000'. Even at 2000' that's well above the max height for drone operations without a waiver. I am not a licensed pilot and an only recently licensed remote pilot though so I could be wrong. Also, I think this rule doesn't apply to GA flights and may not apply to drones at all. I'll update with the regs if I find them.

 

[licensed pilot]

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC91-36d.pdf

Only a flight "advisory," not a federal aviation regulation (FAR). And tribal lands are mentioned only if within or abutting such national parks.

 

[Ravenflight]

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC91-36d.pdf

Only a flight "advisory," not a federal aviation regulation (FAR). And tribal lands are mentioned only if within or abutting such national parks.

There's also this: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...btitleVII-partA-subparti-chap401-sec40128.pdf

But it appears to apply only to commercial air tour operations. The AC you linked is probably what I was thinking of though. For drones, given the NPS operational restrictions, you either have to stick to the park perimeter, get an FAA wavier for BVLOS flight (or, conceivably, a wavier to operate your UAS from a moving aircraft) or just get permission from the local park administrator to fly there. The latter seems like the easiest option but I haven't actually tried to do it yet.

 

[licensed pilot]

We are back to the original question. The OP wanted to fly in a specific area. A review of what he posted showed no airspace restriction. National parks do not have the authority to control airspace, only landing and take off. The issues of how close can the OP take off is tangential to the airspace question, and a part of pilot decision making process.

 

[Ravenflight]

We are back to the original question. The OP wanted to fly in a specific area. A review of what he posted showed no airspace restriction. National parks do not have the authority to control airspace, only landing and take off. The issues of how close can the OP take off is tangential to the airspace question, and a part of pilot decision making process.

Naturally the NPS does not have authority to control airspace. I don't think anyone has suggested anything so silly. But the FAA does have the authority to control airspace and the question as I understood it involved determining exactly what the FAA has done to control airspace over national parks. The answer to that question is not a simple "nothing."

 

[licensed pilot]

Naturally the NPS does not have authority to control airspace. I don't think anyone has suggested anything so silly. But the FAA does have the authority to control airspace and the question as I understood it involved determining exactly what the FAA has done to control airspace over national parks. The answer to that question is not a simple "nothing."

Asked and answered...

 

[licensed pilot]