Permission from ENAC for flying Inspire over Venice canals?

[niki]

Have some one got a permission from ENAC for flying in Venice?

According ENAC, Venice is a Prohibited flying zone. There are also 2 airport zones overlaping there and also a CTR zone, so I'm getting confused how to apply? Because from what I read for applying to fly in the "speciffic category" over prohibited zone should be used ATM-03 Circular but for flying around airports should be used ATM-09A Circular. Do I have to send both applications or this whole stuff is included and explained in a single application?

Additionally flying in urban areas is covered by PDRA-S01 scenario (overflown area - Controlled ground area that might be located in a populated area) but this scenario doesn't mention the flying in Prohibited zone located in urban area, so do I still apply for authorization for the specific category with PDRA scenario or will have to make my own SORA? Can someone explain the procedure if he went trough it?

And finally there is big possibility to take off and land on a boat, but then the PDRA-S01 doesn't fit as it strictly says that the pilot should not be in a moving vehicle. Now what, what should I do to get all those permissions (flying in urban, prohibited zone from a boat)?

I have read hundreds of pages on EASA as well on ENAC sites and it's already a total mess in my head, so please excuse me if you find my questions too lame would love to hear some advices. Thanks!

 

[rbycapri]

yes needed (yes crazy) apply for each single application,(overlapping areas) register here :
"D-Flight" and there for official Aip maps "Enav"




i wouldn't worry about the boat .
you probably need just to set an in case emergency landing 2nd spot, buffer area if possible.


and yes ENAC is a huge mess.

there is non-english section :

Categoria specifica (Specific category) - Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile

La Categoria Specifica è stata istituita per le operazioni di droni che non rientrano nei criteri della Categoria Aperta, richiedendo una valutazione del rischio e procedure di autorizzazione più rigorose. Esempi includono voli BVLOS, droni con MTOM > 25 kg, voli sopra i 120 mt dal suolo...

www.enac.gov.it

Sicurezza aerea - Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile

Droni Categoria aperta (Open Category) Categoria specifica – Specific Category Il 31 dicembre 2020 è diventato applicabile il Regolamento di Esecuzione (UE) n. 947/2019, relativo a norme e procedure per l’esercizio degli aeromobili senza equipaggio, e sono decadute le...

www.enac.gov.it

CRM or SORA are mandatory

operation authorization & declaration ofc also

SAMWISE: online risk assessment for drone operations

An easy web tool for drone risk analysis in the Specific category supporting SORA methodology and the EASA UAS regulation.

www.online-sora.com

ATM-09A way to go

https://www.enac.gov.it/la-normativa/normativa-enac/circolari/serie-atm/circolare-atm-09a

ask info's here Certified email
[email protected]

Portale Trasparenza ENAC - Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile - Direzione Aeroportuale Nord-Est (fino al 31/12/2021)

Il portale della Trasparenza conforme al D.Lgs. 33/2013 - "Amministrazione Trasparente"

enac.portaleamministrazionetrasparente.it

[email protected]

direction airport north east (venice )



there are less than 15 operators in italy that are specific certified, if you need further consulting just pm !

Report Dichiarazioni/Autorizzazioni Operatori APR

all the best

 

[niki]

yes needed (yes crazy) apply for each single application,(overlapping areas) register here :
"D-Flight" and there for official Aip maps "Enav"




i wouldn't worry about the boat .
you probably need just to set an in case emergency landing 2nd spot, buffer area if possible.


and yes ENAC is a huge mess.

there is non-english section :

Categoria specifica (Specific category) - Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile

La Categoria Specifica è stata istituita per le operazioni di droni che non rientrano nei criteri della Categoria Aperta, richiedendo una valutazione del rischio e procedure di autorizzazione più rigorose. Esempi includono voli BVLOS, droni con MTOM > 25 kg, voli sopra i 120 mt dal suolo...

www.enac.gov.it

Sicurezza aerea - Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile

Droni Categoria aperta (Open Category) Categoria specifica – Specific Category Il 31 dicembre 2020 è diventato applicabile il Regolamento di Esecuzione (UE) n. 947/2019, relativo a norme e procedure per l’esercizio degli aeromobili senza equipaggio, e sono decadute le...

www.enac.gov.it

CRM or SORA are mandatory

operation authorization & declaration ofc also

SAMWISE: online risk assessment for drone operations

An easy web tool for drone risk analysis in the Specific category supporting SORA methodology and the EASA UAS regulation.

www.online-sora.com

ATM-09A way to go

https://www.enac.gov.it/la-normativa/normativa-enac/circolari/serie-atm/circolare-atm-09a

ask info's here Certified email
[email protected]

Portale Trasparenza ENAC - Ente Nazionale per l'Aviazione Civile - Direzione Aeroportuale Nord-Est (fino al 31/12/2021)

Il portale della Trasparenza conforme al D.Lgs. 33/2013 - "Amministrazione Trasparente"

enac.portaleamministrazionetrasparente.it

[email protected]

direction airport north east (venice )



there are less than 15 operators in italy that are specific certified, if you need further consulting just pm !

Report Dichiarazioni/Autorizzazioni Operatori APR

all the best

Hey dude, many thanks for the time you spent to provide all that info! I still have a couple of questions if you don't mind?

This SAMWISE site is a great tool, it helped me to get better idea over the SORA stuff.

I'm already registered operator in another EU state (Bulgaria), so I guess I should apply to ENAC by email only as the d-flight portal asks me to register as new operator so to be able to apply declarations and for authorizations, but according EASA, operator can be registered only in one EU state?

Also from what I read on EASA site, I should first apply with declaration for operating in the speciffic category to my local state authorities? This declaration should contain the resulted SORA level and the mitigations that will be taken in to account? Then with the eventual permition from my local authorities to send this local permition along with ATM-09A to ENAC for further flight authorisation? Is all that correct?

 

[rbycapri]

well all of the above ! +


try send an email also to d-flight portal (wich is also mandatory registration) stuff they will reply in 24h usually if your are subscribed (less than 30 € year)!

usually all this will take from 15 to 40 days and they will reply few days before the proper shooting day...i know its pain in the arse.

gl

 

[niki]

well all of the above ! +


try send an email also to d-flight portal (wich is also mandatory registration) stuff they will reply in 24h usually if your are subscribed (less than 30 € year)!

usually all this will take from 15 to 40 days and they will reply few days before the proper shooting day...i know its pain in the arse.

gl

Cool, thanks man! I've read about this 40 day process, crazy stuff

 

[niki]

Hey @rbycapri we'll have to also fly over Burano island. According d-flight, 99% of the island is orange zone with 25m height limit in the open category which is enough for what we're gonna shoot there. But I'm wondering what is the practice in Italy to fly in such a zones with A2 license, do I have to inform the local police station prior my operation or I just go and fly?

 

[rbycapri]

Hey @rbycapri we'll have to also fly over Burano island. According d-flight, 99% of the island is orange zone with 25m height limit in the open category which is enough for what we're gonna shoot there. But I'm wondering what is the practice in Italy to fly in such a zones with A2 license, do I have to inform the local police station prior my operation or I just go and fly?

Yes you are Ok, and well its just a "notify" you are not obligated, but this will prevent you from any stop and go while shooting. best way is to notify local polizia/local carabinieri/local polizia municipale/ Then you are good to go! I always remind myself that 80% paperwork , 10% preparations 10% actual fly (yes pilot's life aint easy task here, LOL! ) BTW show us some images on BTS i really would like to see !

View attachment 31467

 

[niki]

It turns out that I cannot send email to ENAC as they only operate with PEC emails (posta elettronica certificata). So I can't even ask them a question, thats simply ridiculous.

So I've started learning what is this and how to obtain it. I have tried 4 different companies and I'm stuck on all of them as they are asking for different things that I simply cannot fill/select in their appliaction forms. Things like place of birth or place of residence, I can choose only Italian cities there. Or some are not recognizing my company's VAT number as valid. But finally I found a PEC service provider that works for foreign individuals:

http://www.register.it

I can register at least as individual and it's free for the first 6 months, but still no way to make it for my company as the form doesn't recognize my VAT number. And now is the funny part of this PEC madness, I'll have to wait 5 days for my application to be approved and then another 7 days for an administrator to activate the PEC email service.

Now about D-Flight portal,
I have wrote email to them at [email protected] without any responce, so far almost 2 weeks. I have registered there anyway just to be able to see the maps and geo zones. They offer "Ask us" service or something like that which cost 29 Euro to ask them one question, okey I bought that service too but I can't find any way to use it on their site, how do I apply or activate it is unclear, it is also not covered in their User Manual.
I cannot apply for authorisation trough D-Flight as I'm not UAS operator who is registered in Italy, their UAS operator form doesn't accept already registered operators it simply generates a new operator code (Italian one) for the registered user account. But according EASA, I can register only in one EU state, which is obviously my country as I'm existing operator there. It's still not clear for me do I need to buy UAS registration plate for 94 Euros from D-Flight? Why do I need this as I can't apply for flying permission from D-Flight portal anyway? Also this UAS registration number is automatically assigned to the automatically created UAS opreator ID (Italian) which again controverses with EASA rules for registering UAS operators.

Our shooting dates are 1st and 2nd of November, but as it goes so far it look I'll not be able to obtain permission from ENAC for flying over Venice by then. And following all this there is no way so far to get some confirmation from the officials that I can fly over Burino island in the open category and if I need to do something additional for being legal.

 

[rbycapri]

It turns out that I cannot send email to ENAC as they only operate with PEC emails (posta elettronica certificata). So I can't even ask them a question, thats simply ridiculous.

So I've started learning what is this and how to obtain it. I have tried 4 different companies and I'm stuck on all of them as they are asking for different things that I simply cannot fill/select in their appliaction forms. Things like place of birth or place of residence, I can choose only Italian cities there. Or some are not recognizing my company's VAT number as valid. But finally I found a PEC service provider that works for foreign individuals:

http://www.register.it

I can register at least as individual and it's free for the first 6 months, but still no way to make it for my company as the form doesn't recognize my VAT number. And now is the funny part of this PEC madness, I'll have to wait 5 days for my application to be approved and then another 7 days for an administrator to activate the PEC email service.

Now about D-Flight portal,
I have wrote email to them at [email protected] without any responce, so far almost 2 weeks. I have registered there anyway just to be able to see the maps and geo zones. They offer "Ask us" service or something like that which cost 29 Euro to ask them one question, okey I bought that service too but I can't find any way to use it on their site, how do I apply or activate it is unclear, it is also not covered in their User Manual.
I cannot apply for authorisation trough D-Flight as I'm not UAS operator who is registered in Italy, their UAS operator form doesn't accept already registered operators it simply generates a new operator code (Italian one) for the registered user account. But according EASA, I can register only in one EU state, which is obviously my country as I'm existing operator there. It's still not clear for me do I need to buy UAS registration plate for 94 Euros from D-Flight? Why do I need this as I can't apply for flying permission from D-Flight portal anyway? Also this UAS registration number is automatically assigned to the automatically created UAS opreator ID (Italian) which again controverses with EASA rules for registering UAS operators.

Our shooting dates are 1st and 2nd of November, but as it goes so far it look I'll not be able to obtain permission from ENAC for flying over Venice by then. And following all this there is no way so far to get some confirmation from the officials that I can fly over Burino island in the open category and if I need to do something additional for being legal.

yes all of these.

You know the pain that is killing pro pilots in italy right now.
its far more easier do it illegal way some ppl say..ofc they are reckless.

As i see you should fly in specific catergory then,probably under SAIL III or SAIL ll maybe.

if your shoot november you are really in a urge now, pec is a cerfified email,legal equivalent of a traditional registered letter, but it takes a week to identify you (covid smart work, wont help that)

also i told you once you manage to fill the application they will reply "only few days before" the proper shooting days i know its madness.


Supporto then register for free and hit the link -->
support portal here
https://dronesd.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portals


token to ask the expert :

D-Flight Market Place

D-Flight Market Place

www.d-flight.it

token .


i understand the frustration, i
if this still wont work i can let you talk to a professional but he doesnt speak english so well
i can help i wont charge anything, he prolly will if the mission is achievable.

in your case probably you need to register as operator all over again, it will take lots of paperwork and time wasted probably, think about it.

 

[niki]

if this still wont work i can let you talk to a professional but he doesnt speak english so well
i can help i wont charge anything, he prolly will if the mission is achievable.

Many thanks for your offer to help! My PEC email was ready in Friday night, so I sent my email to ENAC in Monday, yesterday. Now I'm waiting for their responce
As we don't have much time left, we decided to shoot only in Burino and forget about Venice as it should be much easier to establish a shoot in the open category than those specific SORA madnesses for Venice. Now I'm just waiting for confirmation from ENAC that I can execute this operation over Burino as a foreign A2 license holder and eventual recomendations from ENAC for such a case.

token to ask the expert :

D-Flight Market Place

D-Flight Market Place

www.d-flight.it

token .

I already bought the d-flight token for 29 euro, but I don't know how to use it. They just took the money, sent me a confirmation email and that's it, I can't found on their site where I apply and type my question. I have wrote to their [email protected] to ask them about that too, but there is no responce so far about 2 weeks and more have passed.

 

[rbycapri]

Many thanks for your offer to help! My PEC email was ready in Friday night, so I sent my email to ENAC in Monday, yesterday. Now I'm waiting for their responce
As we don't have much time left, we decided to shoot only in Burino and forget about Venice as it should be much easier to establish a shoot in the open category than those specific SORA madnesses for Venice. Now I'm just waiting for confirmation from ENAC that I can execute this operation over Burino as a foreign A2 license holder and eventual recomendations from ENAC for such a case.



I already bought the d-flight token for 29 euro, but I don't know how to use it. They just took the money, sent me a confirmation email and that's it, I can't found on their site where I apply and type my question. I have wrote to their [email protected] to ask them about that too, but there is no responce so far about 2 weeks and more have passed.

i call it burocracy madnesses. haha.

as for the ticket you pay anyway, it should be trough portal/email. if they didnt reach you can ask for a refound its written in theyr policy.

Supporto register here for free and hit the link -->
support portal service desk here-->
https://dronesd.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portals
you register then write (it has english version top right -->profile-->set language).

you made the wisest choise flying over burino instead.

next month i will have to fly over in a shooting military area , betwen muntains multiple Notam, CTR, ATC, ghost areas and National Parks, under Military control. They even asked me wich size and brand of slips i used to wear 10 years ago, talking about madness in my case at least is ok.

Fly safe !