Phantom Angel company - misleading - buyer beware...

[Donnie Frank]

Hey doods;

Hard to review something I haven't received. So instead, I'll review the company.

After reading reviews and watching a couple YouTube videos, I decided to purchase a Phantom Angel. In February. 7 weeks later, I have nothing.

Here's some information you might want to know BEFORE purchasing a Phantom Angel. This information is well-guarded by the company. If you think you're getting your Phantom Angel in 1-2 weeks, think again.

1) The company is based out of Athens, Greece (or at least that's where the product ships from). Who knew, right? They don't tell you this. Anywhere. A site-wide (phantomangel.rocks) word search for the words "Greece" or "Athens" turns up nothing. A Google search turns up nothing. This seems rather odd for a company based out of Greece. Seems this information is well guarded - certainly not transparent.

2) Their FAQ contains nothing about their origin or delivery expectations. Nothing. IF anybody ever asked "Where are you based?" or "When can I expect my Phantom Angel???", Phantom Angel has chosen not to feature those questions in their FAQ.

3) They use a shipping company called "Hellinic Post" (Grecian version of USPS???), whose "tracking information" (huge air quotes there) is terse at best. What should one expect from a company who misspells "Helenic." I assume they base their company name on "Helena" or "Helen of Troy," which are both spelled with a single "L." Interesting.

4) Standard Covid excuses don't wash, as I have received many packages from Asia in half the time it has taken to ship this package from Greece, and have received packages from NY and NJ in half the time this item has been sitting on US shores - presumably in a warehouse somewhere on the East coast, as I have no tracking information.

Timeline...

1) February 25, 2021: Purchased (and paid for) the Phantom Angel.
2) March 7, 2021: Shipping label created.
3) March 12, 2021: The Phantom Angel is received by Hellenic Post. I understand that the Phantom Angel is a bespoke item, but over 2 weeks seems excessive to me. Not a deal-breaker, but this information would be useful from the onset to set expectations.
4) March 25, 2021: "Arrival at outward office of exchange." Apparently this is Greek for "received at the Hellenic Post depot." It "departed" the same day - presumably on a boat.
5) April 3, 2021: "Receive item at inward office of exchange." Again, Greek for "unloaded off the boat and now in a U.S. warehouse." I'll point out it took 9 days to make a 4-day trip. Apparently Covid makes boats sail slower.

That's the last I've heard. 11 days later (7 weeks total), I still don't have my Phantom Angel. And there is no new shipping information. 2 emails since 4/3/21 inquiring about the Phantom Angel have gone unanswered.

I'm sure the Phantom Angel is a fine product. And Alex and John seem like nice enough guys. But I can't help wondering why their shipping location - "Sunny Athens, Greece" according to John - is such a well-guarded secret. I also can't help but wonder why shipping expectations are also so well guarded. Seems it would certainly quell concerns to simply say, "Takes 2 weeks to build and roughly 6 weeks to ship - 8 weeks total."

Whatever your opinion of the product, the company or its owners, the buyer should beware that this item not only ships from a land far, far away, but it ships via a courier that makes USPS look like Fed-Ex. Had I known this, I absolutely would still have purchased the the Phantom Angel. But I wouldn't have set out 40 batteries like little soldiers waiting to go into battle waiting to be maintenanced and set to storage voltage.

Buyer beware...

D

 

[The Editor]

Hey doods;

Hard to review something I haven't received. So instead, I'll review the company.

After reading reviews and watching a couple YouTube videos, I decided to purchase a Phantom Angel. In February. 7 weeks later, I have nothing.

Here's some information you might want to know BEFORE purchasing a Phantom Angel. This information is well-guarded by the company. If you think you're getting your Phantom Angel in 1-2 weeks, think again.

1) The company is based out of Athens, Greece (or at least that's where the product ships from). Who knew, right? They don't tell you this. Anywhere. A site-wide (phantomangel.rocks) word search for the words "Greece" or "Athens" turns up nothing. A Google search turns up nothing. This seems rather odd for a company based out of Greece. Seems this information is well guarded - certainly not transparent.

2) Their FAQ contains nothing about their origin or delivery expectations. Nothing. IF anybody ever asked "Where are you based?" or "When can I expect my Phantom Angel???", Phantom Angel has chosen not to feature those questions in their FAQ.

3) They use a shipping company called "Hellinic Post" (Grecian version of USPS???), whose "tracking information" (huge air quotes there) is terse at best. What should one expect from a company who misspells "Helenic." I assume they base their company name on "Helena" or "Helen of Troy," which are both spelled with a single "L." Interesting.

4) Standard Covid excuses don't wash, as I have received many packages from Asia in half the time it has taken to ship this package from Greece, and have received packages from NY and NJ in half the time this item has been sitting on US shores - presumably in a warehouse somewhere on the East coast, as I have no tracking information.

Timeline...

1) February 25, 2021: Purchased (and paid for) the Phantom Angel.
2) March 7, 2021: Shipping label created.
3) March 12, 2021: The Phantom Angel is received by Hellenic Post. I understand that the Phantom Angel is a bespoke item, but over 2 weeks seems excessive to me. Not a deal-breaker, but this information would be useful from the onset to set expectations.
4) March 25, 2021: "Arrival at outward office of exchange." Apparently this is Greek for "received at the Hellenic Post depot." It "departed" the same day - presumably on a boat.
5) April 3, 2021: "Receive item at inward office of exchange." Again, Greek for "unloaded off the boat and now in a U.S. warehouse." I'll point out it took 9 days to make a 4-day trip. Apparently Covid makes boats sail slower.

That's the last I've heard. 11 days later (7 weeks total), I still don't have my Phantom Angel. And there is no new shipping information. 2 emails since 4/3/21 inquiring about the Phantom Angel have gone unanswered.

I'm sure the Phantom Angel is a fine product. And Alex and John seem like nice enough guys. But I can't help wondering why their shipping location - "Sunny Athens, Greece" according to John - is such a well-guarded secret. I also can't help but wonder why shipping expectations are also so well guarded. Seems it would certainly quell concerns to simply say, "Takes 2 weeks to build and roughly 6 weeks to ship - 8 weeks total."

Whatever your opinion of the product, the company or its owners, the buyer should beware that this item not only ships from a land far, far away, but it ships via a courier that makes USPS look like Fed-Ex. Had I known this, I absolutely would still have purchased the the Phantom Angel. But I wouldn't have set out 40 batteries like little soldiers waiting to go into battle waiting to be maintenanced and set to storage voltage.

Buyer beware...

D

Alex is a good guy. He (and his products) have been around for years and as yet, I haven't really heard a bad comment/review on the Angel whatever the model it's made for.
I'm sure your Angel will turn up (probably coming via Suez!!)

 

[AMGPilot]

I'm sure the Phantom Angel is a fine product. And Alex and John seem like nice enough guys. But I can't help wondering why their shipping location - "Sunny Athens, Greece" according to John - is such a well-guarded secret. I also can't help but wonder why shipping expectations are also so well guarded. Seems it would certainly quell concerns to simply say, "Takes 2 weeks to build and roughly 6 weeks to ship - 8 weeks total.

And? They used the word “roughly” and the timeline is 8 weeks. Could be 7 might be 9

I see nothing wrong with this other than your rant of a spoiled child that is so insulated that you can’t fathom that things work slightly differently in other countries

I’m going to guess that you probally never been out of your state

 

[Donnie Frank]

And? They used the word “roughly” and the timeline is 8 weeks. Could be 7 might be 9

Where did/do you see that? I saw nothing on their website to indicate delivery or shipping expectations.

EDIT: I see the disconnect here. The above quote is what they SHOULD say. NOT what they DID say.

I see nothing wrong with this other than your rant of a spoiled child that is so insulated that you can’t fathom that things work slightly differently in other countries

What I can't fathom is the fact that they're not transparent about their company location or where the item ships from or how long it takes to receive. Your comment, however, is emotional and unfounded - like a spoiled child. Are you TRYING to be ironic?

I’m going to guess that you probally never been out of your state

I've been to over 50 countries and roughly 30 of the lower 48 and Hawaii.

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

Alex is a good guy. He (and his products) have been around for years and as yet, I haven't really heard a bad comment/review on the Angel whatever the model it's made for.

Correct. I was very careful to specify my angst was NOT with the product OR Alex or John. My disappointment is simply their lack of transparency regarding their location and delivery expectations.

I'm sure your Angel will turn up (probably coming via Suez!!)

Not via Suez. Hopefully, it does turn up soon.

D

 

[Starz]

Spoiled child? Silly. Probably as far from truth as could be.

 

[Phillip DeVore]

I purchased one earlier this year and it did take a long time for shipping but it arrived and it works exactly as described.
Just be patient and it will arrive on your doorstep soon.

 

[jpalamaro]

Hey doods;

Hard to review something I haven't received. So instead, I'll review the company.

After reading reviews and watching a couple YouTube videos, I decided to purchase a Phantom Angel. In February. 7 weeks later, I have nothing.

Here's some information you might want to know BEFORE purchasing a Phantom Angel. This information is well-guarded by the company. If you think you're getting your Phantom Angel in 1-2 weeks, think again.

1) The company is based out of Athens, Greece (or at least that's where the product ships from). Who knew, right? They don't tell you this. Anywhere. A site-wide (phantomangel.rocks) word search for the words "Greece" or "Athens" turns up nothing. A Google search turns up nothing. This seems rather odd for a company based out of Greece. Seems this information is well guarded - certainly not transparent.

2) Their FAQ contains nothing about their origin or delivery expectations. Nothing. IF anybody ever asked "Where are you based?" or "When can I expect my Phantom Angel???", Phantom Angel has chosen not to feature those questions in their FAQ.

3) They use a shipping company called "Hellinic Post" (Grecian version of USPS???), whose "tracking information" (huge air quotes there) is terse at best. What should one expect from a company who misspells "Helenic." I assume they base their company name on "Helena" or "Helen of Troy," which are both spelled with a single "L." Interesting.

4) Standard Covid excuses don't wash, as I have received many packages from Asia in half the time it has taken to ship this package from Greece, and have received packages from NY and NJ in half the time this item has been sitting on US shores - presumably in a warehouse somewhere on the East coast, as I have no tracking information.

Timeline...

1) February 25, 2021: Purchased (and paid for) the Phantom Angel.
2) March 7, 2021: Shipping label created.
3) March 12, 2021: The Phantom Angel is received by Hellenic Post. I understand that the Phantom Angel is a bespoke item, but over 2 weeks seems excessive to me. Not a deal-breaker, but this information would be useful from the onset to set expectations.
4) March 25, 2021: "Arrival at outward office of exchange." Apparently this is Greek for "received at the Hellenic Post depot." It "departed" the same day - presumably on a boat.
5) April 3, 2021: "Receive item at inward office of exchange." Again, Greek for "unloaded off the boat and now in a U.S. warehouse." I'll point out it took 9 days to make a 4-day trip. Apparently Covid makes boats sail slower.

That's the last I've heard. 11 days later (7 weeks total), I still don't have my Phantom Angel. And there is no new shipping information. 2 emails since 4/3/21 inquiring about the Phantom Angel have gone unanswered.

I'm sure the Phantom Angel is a fine product. And Alex and John seem like nice enough guys. But I can't help wondering why their shipping location - "Sunny Athens, Greece" according to John - is such a well-guarded secret. I also can't help but wonder why shipping expectations are also so well guarded. Seems it would certainly quell concerns to simply say, "Takes 2 weeks to build and roughly 6 weeks to ship - 8 weeks total."

Whatever your opinion of the product, the company or its owners, the buyer should beware that this item not only ships from a land far, far away, but it ships via a courier that makes USPS look like Fed-Ex. Had I known this, I absolutely would still have purchased the the Phantom Angel. But I wouldn't have set out 40 batteries like little soldiers waiting to go into battle waiting to be maintenanced and set to storage voltage.

Buyer beware...

D

I have two of their units, one was drone specific e.g. Inspire 1 batteries, the second, and I believe the proprietor's name is Alex, recommended the somewhat universal model with appropriate cabling/plugs for Phantom/I1, I2 batteries. I best remember my wait time about a month before I received the product (might have been shorter, I was in no rush). Suffice it to say, products work flawlessly, and pleased with the purchase.

 

[Brian Fist]

I am sure the product is great, otherwise we all wouldn't have even ordered it. (I also ordered one about 2.5 weeks ago)

I believe the whole issue here is the lack of transparency in regards to the logistics of the purchase.

It is a trend happening on Facebook, on eBay, and on tons of independent vendor sites around the internet, and that trend is about hiding details about the transaction you are making.

We, here in the USA, have gotten VERY used to a system of immediate responses, automated checks and balances and the ability to know every little piece of information about anything we do. And ALL of that is for the better of the consumer.

Has that built an environment of "super competitiveness" in businesses, sure. But it also has allowed for consumers to be more willing to "take chances" on newer products, new innovations and technologies and in general a level of "security" about the transactions we conduct.

Why shouldn't the producers of the "Phantom Angel" products tell EXACTLY where they are located?

Why shouldn't they state realistic shipping expectations of the services they have available and HAVE to use based on geographic location?

Why don't they have a more involved and engaging product portal that allows for a level of confidence that you are dealing with a company that actually WANTS to come across as professional?

My own correspondence with the people involved with the product was professional and timely. Exactly what I expected. But the whole web-presence leaves a LOT to be desired, as does the order process itself. I understand they want to engage with the customer to make the most informed decision as to what model they are ordering and making sure it fits their needs. But there is a whole group of "Prosumers" that don't need the hand holding and find that level of interaction somewhat unnecessary, especially if the website does a deep-dive into specifics and options (which it really does not).

Ultimately the US "Prosumer" is no different than any other fast-moving enterprise here in the USA. We want to move quick, make informed decisions and let our spending power do the talking in regards to acquiring what we need to get the job done in the shortest time possible.

I think that attitude is at odds with the way a LOT of the rest of the world wants to operate outside of some of their businesses. People wonder why the US is so aggressive and demanding and "NOW NOW NOW" on stuff. It is because of the fact that we understand that opportunities are what you make of them and would rather move quickly (sometimes at a cost) to make the most of those opportunities before someone else can before us. Sure is it "uber-competitive"? You bet. But it does allow us to set the pace for expectations and ultimately results.

Basically, we expect to be informed. Give us the information. If we decide to pass on products because the business model employed isn't aggressive enough, or that because of the locale that the product will take far too long to acquire, that is a decision we want to make up-front. If it hurts the business because of where they are geographically located, too bad. It is our money we are spending.

The trend if you cannot compete is to conceal and hide the information that would put you at a disadvantage. For better or worse, that is just deceptive business practices. And that is what is at the heart of this initial post. It is taken as actual deception that they are not forthcoming with where the product ships from and how long it will take to acquire.

Honestly, it is an actual business PRACTICE by a bunch of foreign companies (mostly form China) to "run out the clock" on credit card charges so that disputes can't be opened and charge-backs applied. They will take and order, give status updates including tracking information, and then not ship for many weeks. Then it takes many weeks to receive the product, and once you get it, even if it does work, it won't be reliable, and they are hoping it will be past the time when you can do a credit card dispute or charge-back on the purchase by the time it actually either is received or when the product fails. eBay had a huge problem with that a while ago and was forced to press the vendors on there to actually ship immediately so that the product was received within the window allowed to be able to dispute a purchase. As a result a TON of products from China are received within 2-3 weeks here in the USA. Amazon does the same thing with their overseas vendors and there are no issues. (And if issues arise they are dealt with by the organization that took the order, not the vendor selling the product, again protecting the consumer)

Like it or not, we are in a world of immediate results. And, quite frankly, us "impatient Americans" are to blame, and we accept such honors willingly and with pride. We have maximized modernization with an expectation of quality and thoroughness. All things that can only help evolve business and the way we live, for better or worse. It is the kicking and screaming in protest of those that don't want to be pushed, pulled, expected and demanded that they do things on OUR terms that end up causing the problems. The answer to that simply is "don't play the game if you don't like the rules". The rule of modern consumerism is offer a product that does what you say it will, at a competitive price, produced with sufficient quality, tested, packaged and shipped in a timely manner in the best way possible to get it into the hands of the consumer as quickly as possible. That does not seem to be very strange, weird, overly demanding or out of the realm of expectation. It is not something that isn't done by many many companies both big and small every day. Heck, there is an entire system of sub-services that exist SOLELY to make sure all of it goes off without a hitch.

It is about the choices the company that produces the product chooses to make that ultimately decide the majority of the consumer experience. And attention to shipping, information dissemination, order taking, and ultimately customer satisfaction are all factors that any business must consider and put serious effort into. Us "Prosumers" only expect what we, ourselves end up providing.

 

[The Editor]

Im afraid the Varuca Salt attitude of “I want it and I want it now“ just doesn’t wash with other cultures. The US of A isn’t the Centre of the known Universe and sometimes people just have to be patient.

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[jpalamaro]

I've dealt with Alex, use two of his Phantom Angels, and they work like a charm. I suspect he's a small 'cottage industry' company that does this asa sideline and more than likely chief engineer, product developer, fabricator, expediter, website designer, accountant, etc. Give the guy a break, and 'buyer beware' based one one's experience may not be legally libelous, but certainly provocative without supporting evidence.

 

[The Editor]

I've dealt with Alex, use two of his Phantom Angels, and they work like a charm. I suspect he's a small 'cottage industry' company that does this asa sideline and more than likely chief engineer, product developer, fabricator, expediter, website designer, accountant, etc. Give the guy a break, and 'buyer beware' based one one's experience may not be legally libelous, but certainly provocative without supporting evidence.

Exactly right - he’s basically a ‘one man band’ and Phantom Angels are not his main job/source of income.

I do not believe he’s ever let anyone down and he always tries to put something right if there’s an issue.

Patience is a virtue........

 

[Brian Fist]

The Editor, quite frankly, attacks on people in other cultures (including comparing people of the USA to impertinent snots, directly such as the Varuca Salt character in the original Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory) is a violation of the rules of the forum, for which I believe moderators are also supposed to follow.

I quite succinctly gave a very capitalistically view pointed explanation of why a consumer of the product is outraged at the lack of transparency of the ordering process, and you, in turn, attacked in a deriding and nasty manner that lacks of any sort of professionalism. That is not acceptable, nor appreciated, and quite frankly, I expected more of you in terms of professionalism.

I think you need to seriously look at who you are attacking in regards to peoples contributions to this forum. Since both myself and Donnie Frank have given more technical expertise than just about anyone else to a wide range of members. I would imagine that either one of us deciding that we are no longer appreciated would be the last thing this forum would want.

This thread shows that quite a few members make personal attacks to Donnie Frank and you have done nothing to "moderate" such actions, and, in fact, have added to the aggressions, including myself as one of your victims.

Your opinions of other cultures is unappreciated and unwanted.

 

[rotorfan]

I ordered one a couple years ago that took a long time to receive, but I did get it. It was dead on arrival. Emailed Alex who responded quickly and was very apologetic. He offered me 3 solutions 1. refund 2. return and repair or 3 send detailed instructions on repairing my self. I chose option 3 and it has worked flawlessly since. The - wire had become detached for whatever reason so a quick re solder did the trick.
Be patient it will show up. Waiting for a new toy does suck but its worth the wait!

 

[The Editor]

The Editor, quite frankly, attacks on people in other cultures (including comparing people of the USA to impertinent snots, directly such as the Varuca Salt character in the original Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory) is a violation of the rules of the forum, for which I believe moderators are also supposed to follow.

I quite succinctly gave a very capitalistically view pointed explanation of why a consumer of the product is outraged at the lack of transparency of the ordering process, and you, in turn, attacked in a deriding and nasty manner that lacks of any sort of professionalism. That is not acceptable, nor appreciated, and quite frankly, I expected more of you in terms of professionalism.

I think you need to seriously look at who you are attacking in regards to peoples contributions to this forum. Since both myself and Donnie Frank have given more technical expertise than just about anyone else to a wide range of members. I would imagine that either one of us deciding that we are no longer appreciated would be the last thing this forum would want.

This thread shows that quite a few members make personal attacks to Donnie Frank and you have done nothing to "moderate" such actions, and, in fact, have added to the aggressions, including myself as one of your victims.

Your opinions of other cultures is unappreciated and unwanted.

I certainly wouldn’t call it succinct - more verbose at 1,100 words!
When you’ve quite finished your little rant we‘ll move on shall we. (Rhetorical).

 

[Donnie Frank]

Spoiled child. Silly. Probably as far from truth as could be.

Silly, emotional, child response. I don't lie.

In the industry we call this "evidence." I even left the tracking number there so you can track it yourself if you wish. I'm not lying or exaggerating.




Would you like to see my CC statement for the February 25th payment date?

"The best combatant of bad information is good information. The best combatant of good information is dismissal."

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

Im afraid the Varuca Salt attitude of “I want it and I want it now“ just doesn’t wash with other cultures. The US of A isn’t the Centre of the known Universe and sometimes people just have to be patient.

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I see your point. But Brian Fist made excellent points, as well.

And I feel the need to reiterate points I made in my original post:

1) That I concede the product is a good one (based on research, not personal experience).
2) I concede that the owners are good people (based on both research and personal experience).
3) That my complaint is NOT how long the item is taking to reach my home. I can't stress this enough.

All that said, my complaint is with the lack of transparency regarding location and shipping expectations. Nothing more, nothing less. 8 or 9 weeks is FINE, as long as I'm told this UP FRONT so that my EXPECTATIONS are set accordingly.

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

I've dealt with Alex, use two of his Phantom Angels, and they work like a charm.

Please read the last 2 paragraphs of my original post. I literally go out of my way to state that my complaint has nothing to do with the product or the owners.

I suspect he's a small 'cottage industry' company that does this asa sideline and more than likely chief engineer, product developer, fabricator, expediter, website designer, accountant, etc.

Yep. I tend to support these cottage industries.

Give the guy a break, and 'buyer beware' based one one's experience may not be legally libelous, but certainly provocative without supporting evidence.

So your position is that setting customer shipping expectations is completely unreasonable and adds too much to the "work load" to be a viable request? And furthermore, there's no evidence to show my original claims that the item has taken 7 weeks (so far) to reach my home???

Well...here's some evidence. I'm purposely leaving the tracking number so you can track the item yourself.



I'll remind you that all I asked for is "transparency." Nothing more. Nothing less. Just one line somewhere on the website, "Items take 7-9 weeks to receive." Your take seems to be that this is an unreasonable expectation.

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

Exactly right - he’s basically a ‘one man band’ and Phantom Angels are not his main job/source of income.

I do not believe he’s ever let anyone down and he always tries to put something right if there’s an issue.

Patience is a virtue........

Sure. But I feel I keep repeating myself that 8 weeks delivery isn't unreasonable and NOT the center of my complaint. My complaint is that they don't set expectations. One sentence on their website; "Items take 7-9 weeks to receive" seems like a VERY reasonable expectation to me.

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

I ordered one a couple years ago that took a long time to receive, but I did get it. It was dead on arrival. Emailed Alex who responded quickly and was very apologetic. He offered me 3 solutions 1. refund 2. return and repair or 3 send detailed instructions on repairing my self. I chose option 3 and it has worked flawlessly since. The - wire had become detached for whatever reason so a quick re solder did the trick.
Be patient it will show up. Waiting for a new toy does suck but its worth the wait!

I will reiterate (per the last 2 paragraphs of my original post) that I have no issue with the product, the owners or even the shipping time. My issue is that shipping EXPECTATIONS were not set via a single sentence somewhere on the website that might read; "Items take 7-9 weeks to reach their destination." This seems like a very reasonable expectation to me.

D