RAWS -Charging For?

[tweaker]

Guys,

Had a client for a big corporation that I made a short video for approx 2 years ago come back to me.

Now the crux is they have bought and paid for the video 2 years ago but are now asking about the RAWS as they are going to make another video- do I hand over said RAWs (left over from their video) or do I charge?

Advice/Ideas from others sought!!

T

 

[The Editor]

Guys,

Had a client for a big corporation that I made a short video for approx 2 years ago come back to me.

Now the crux is they have bought and paid for the video 2 years ago but are now asking about the RAWS as they are going to make another video- do I hand over said RAWs (left over from their video) or do I charge?

Advice/Ideas from others sought!!

T

Oh most definitely. They are your property/copyright.

You can either:

• Offer to do the new video for them (you have probably already thought of that one)
• Sell them to the client with no restrictions (A higher price)
• Sell them under license/copyright contract which means they have to pay you for each use of the footage.

 

[tweaker]

Ed

Thanks -what I am really trying to say is anyone got a magic ball and tell me what to charge for no restrictions / license lol

Mark

 

[red_raven]

Ed

Thanks -what I am really trying to say is anyone got a magic ball and tell me what to charge for no restrictions / license lol

Mark

That question actually depends alot on the market value / the economy you are living and working in. My location makes an advice on the matter from me completely useless for you... [emoji4].

This raw / original files issue have been every photographers nightmare since the first digital image were shot.
No one asked for the film of the camera when they where the medium used, you'll have to get that idea into customers heads and to do so without end up being the ahole in the case can be tricky. I understand people feel that they've already purchased the pictures since they hired you for the shoot. But they'll have to understand that they bought copies of your work.

For me it have been most successful to get that out of the way from start. Because it is really some difference (at least from the customers and even from all general public point of view) if you were hired for a particular job or if you are selling them pictures you took. I can see and understand that view, but being a photographer I also understand very well our side. And how selling the shoot as a whole with all files included would not only get most photographers out of business or greatly raise their market prices. Another problem also could and would come up when customers would use your work either not processed or done so by some other, usually some amateur. And asked about the footage the answer would be that it were your work. That is at very best risky and I don't know anyone who would feel ok about that. Some awful photo or video that have been ruined by bad post processing could really and would harm your reputation and therefor your business.

I go by the rule (with few exceptions I have to mention) that I never deliver the original files.

 

[tweaker]

RR -yes totally agree with you on original files thats how I operate

The background this corporation have a "creative department" and it is they who are asking. The manager and I get on well and as such he is on side. The "creative department" is chancing their arm.

In this game you make up your own rules so to speak I just wanted to sound people out on their "rules" or approaches that have worked for them in the past.

 

[World Media]

The real question is "what will the footage be used for"
Licenses are granted based on use, the price for work used internally only will be less than work licensed for use on a TVC ( for television broadcast).
Firstly understand what they will use it for, establish how much it might cost them to re-shoot the footage and come to something you feel comfortable with.
I am often asked for the raw footage from all sorts of filming and NEVER provide it.
As said previously on this forum , you fully own the footage and provided a licence for its limited use in the video you made for this client previously.

If they have a creative department then they can afford to pay and SHOULD pay

 

[tweaker]

The real question is "what will the footage be used for"
Licenses are granted based on use, the price for work used internally only will be less than work licensed for use on a TVC ( for television broadcast).
Firstly understand what they will use it for, establish how much it might cost them to re-shoot the footage and come to something you feel comfortable with.
I am often asked for the raw footage from all sorts of filming and NEVER provide it.
As said previously on this forum , you fully own the footage and provided a licence for its limited use in the video you made for this client previously.

If they have a creative department then they can afford to pay and SHOULD pay

Worl Media thanks for your detailed response.
Someone who clearly knows his/her stuff -much appreciated.

 

[niki]

As soon an artist is hired by someone else to shoot and cut a movie for him all rights are going to the employer who paid for it to happen. All materials used, video footage, Graphics and animation, sound and anything else used for the creation of the movie.
All details are sorted by contracts. If some wants to have the rights then he should be Co producer (to invest with funds for the production).
Some companies I have worked with also want all sources to be stored in backup for 10 years.
At least that's how it's in Bulgaria , but we are working with international clients too and those rules apply to all.

 

[tweaker]

The RAWs will be used in web based production by their in house creative team.

I do not want to over sell but also I do not want to undersell my work

Only ever resold my RAWs a couple of years ago for exclusive use -but what is a ball park figure you would be shooting for exclusive copyright for web use?

How longs a piece of string.....

 

[Skydog]

It's all about your "contract" or "production agreement" as I like to call it. If you don't have a legal and binding document signed by both you and the client then it gets sketchy.
I never do a shoot without one. Our standard production agreement states that we will provide a "finished production" to client - not the raw footage. The agreement also states that the original medium is ours. If the client later wants to utilize that footage everything is renegotiated - but at a lower cost since we already have the footage - but if they want to do the edit/grading themselves I am not as flexible and also require credit for footage acquisition.
Some clients have asked that the raw footage be included in the agreement - and we do that but at a higher cost. That cost is determined by the overall scope of the project and how much you want the job. Everything is negotiable.

 

[World Media]

As soon an artist is hired by someone else to shoot and cut a movie for him all rights are going to the employer who paid for it to happen. All materials used, video footage, Graphics and animation, sound and anything else used for the creation of the movie.
All details are sorted by contracts. If some wants to have the rights then he should be Co producer (to invest with funds for the production).
Some companies I have worked with also want all sources to be stored in backup for 10 years.
At least that's how it's in Bulgaria , but we are working with international clients too and those rules apply to all.

All of what you say describes a "work for Hire " agreement. That is totally different from producing a finished packaged product of the type the OP describes. the two are very different.

 

[niki]

All of what you say describes a "work for Hire " agreement. That is totally different from producing a finished packaged product of the type the OP describes. the two are very different.

I'm talking about work done for commercials by me that are broadcast on TV channels where I was hired as a freelancer by advertising agencies as well for bluray/dvd movies that also can be seen on TV's and theaters where I'm working as part of a team and the company I'm hired from is "hired" by another company.
If the OP doesn't have contract then the country law is in charge and he should consult with local lawyer so to decide what he can do in such a case. But usually all that is sorted by contracts.

 

[Skydog]

I'm talking about work done for commercials by me that are broadcast on TV channels where I was hired as a freelancer by advertising agencies as well for bluray/dvd movies that also can be seen on TV's and theaters where I'm working as part of a team and the company I'm hired from is "hired" by another company.
If the OP doesn't have contract then the country law is in charge and he should consult with local lawyer so to decide what he can do in such a case. But usually all that is sorted by contracts.

When you call yourself a freelancer - you are basically saying SUBcontractor and as such you would not have any rights to the footage. Your name is not on the original contract. The ad agency you are working for is the contractor and would hold those rights under normal circumstances - unless you had a special provision in your agreement with the ad agency... which is not likely to happen.

 

[niki]

Im talking about serious business and ther is no other way to do a job for someone without signing a contract. My contracts are with both the agencies and the client who hired the agencies. There is no fake contract and my name is present in the original one.
All you talk about "completely finished package" what the hell is that if the commercials we are doing are not a finished product?
Also if the OP doesn't have a contract with his client what a business is that? A childhood play with drones for friends?

 

[Skydog]

"Serious business?" "Fake contracts?" wha???

 

[niki]

"Serious business?" "Fake contracts?" wha???

Yes, my last contract is with Universal, the previous was with Sony Pictures. And as I said before I don't have the rights to use the footage and graphics made by me in any way for anything else (personal or for another client), also I can't publicly show my work till the movie is released, also can't use any of the footage even the parts that wasn't cut in the final film because it's all property of the client. And if one want to have a good relations with the clients who work with will have to follow the rules in business and that is by signing contracts and NDA's (non disclosure agreements).

 

[World Media]

I'm talking about work done for commercials by me that are broadcast on TV channels where I was hired as a freelancer by advertising agencies as well for bluray/dvd movies that also can be seen on TV's and theaters where I'm working as part of a team and the company I'm hired from is "hired" by another company.
If the OP doesn't have contract then the country law is in charge and he should consult with local lawyer so to decide what he can do in such a case. But usually all that is sorted by contracts.

I think the OP was the production team from film to editing .... that's the case for many on the forum and for others its work for hire where the drone film is part of a larger piece of work.
Many forum members are film-makers or small production teams that have added a drone to their arsenal ...... and many are drone operators that have essentially become cameraman ( albeit in the sky).
The latter group will often be classified as work for hire, which includes the kind of work you described doing yourself. The former group are likely to retain the copyright as an artist/creator for the work they produce.