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Still No Competition for I2?

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Is it just me or is there still no competition for the I2, especially at its price point? The (currently unreleased) Autel Evo 2 seems like it's the closest to matching its specs on paper, and the Yuneec Typhoon H+ has some nice specs/capabilities as well, but I'm unaware of any integrated UAS videography systems that can shoot anything but H264/265 or even swap lenses. After the ~$5,000-20,000 I2 system, the next production-quality system would cost at least 2 or 3 times the price (M600 or Alta w/ Cinema Cam).

On one hand it makes me happy that the I2 exists at all, but on the other hand this lack of competition explains why DJI really has us over the barrel when it comes to buying features like the ProRes/DNG licenses or CineSSDs.
 
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It really is too bad that American companies can't better compete with DJI. DJI has a huge advantage regarding their R&D environment. DJI doesn't have to deal with near the red tape and bureaucracy as their American/Canadian/European counterparts. The FAA is one of the reasons all the latest/greatest/innovative drone stuff will always come out of China or Dubai. Thanx, FAA!

D
 
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It really is too bad that American companies can't better compete with DJI. DJI has a huge advantage regarding their R&D environment. DJI doesn't have to deal with near the red tape and bureaucracy as their American/Canadian/European counterparts. The FAA is one of the reasons all the latest/greatest/innovative drone stuff will always come out of China or Dubai. Thanx, FAA!

D

I know that there is a decent amount of red tape involved with flying UAS in America, but I wasn't aware of any burdensome regulations on drone manufacturers themselves. I do believe you based on the apparent lack of any successful American-based drone companies (other than Freefly), but can you elaborate on how the FAA is being a blocker here?
 
I know that there is a decent amount of red tape involved with flying UAS in America, but I wasn't aware of any burdensome regulations on drone manufacturers themselves. I do believe you based on the apparent lack of any successful American-based drone companies (other than Freefly), but can you elaborate on how the FAA is being a blocker here?

About 5 years ago Google actually set up a large R&D facility in Moriarity, N.M. which is just East of my hometown of Albuquerque. The purpose of this facility was to test and develop their new "Solara 50," which was supposed to stay aloft perpetually for 5 years on solar and battery power and deliver Internet access to the masses. It was all the rage in the local papers...millions invested, yada, yada. Well, god forbid one of their test UAV's crashed. Nobody was hurt (of course), but it's my understanding from local sources that the follow-up FAA and NTSB investigations pretty-much put the nail in the coffin for the Solara 50. Almost overnight Google pulled out of N.M. completely and, as far as I know, scrapped the entire project, never to be heard from again. I would bet a paycheck that the U.S.'s "UAV-unfriendly" environment is to blame. Of course, I'm speculating. But my speculation is based on a lot of different data sources both public and private.

Meanwhile, in Dubai, they're developing UAV's with a human payload and guys are strapping rockets to their backs and flying with jet liners. I imagine that FAA would nip that "stuff" in the bud pretty quick. And so, the U.S. is in DEAD LAST in the UAV innovation game. And unless some kind of exception is made or the FAA loosens their grip, it's going to stay that way. And you can quote me on that.

D
 
About 5 years ago Google actually set up a large R&D facility in Moriarity, N.M. which is just East of my hometown of Albuquerque. The purpose of this facility was to test and develop their new "Solara 50," which was supposed to stay aloft perpetually for 5 years on solar and battery power and deliver Internet access to the masses. It was all the rage in the local papers...millions invested, yada, yada. Well, god forbid one of their test UAV's crashed. Nobody was hurt (of course), but it's my understanding from local sources that the follow-up FAA and NTSB investigations pretty-much put the nail in the coffin for the Solara 50. Almost overnight Google pulled out of N.M. completely and, as far as I know, scrapped the entire project, never to be heard from again. I would bet a paycheck that the U.S.'s "UAV-unfriendly" environment is to blame. Of course, I'm speculating. But my speculation is based on a lot of different data sources both public and private.

Meanwhile, in Dubai, they're developing UAV's with a human payload and guys are strapping rockets to their backs and flying with jet liners. I imagine that FAA would nip that "stuff" in the bud pretty quick. And so, the U.S. is in DEAD LAST in the UAV innovation game. And unless some kind of exception is made or the FAA loosens their grip, it's going to stay that way. And you can quote me on that.

D

Thanks for the reply. I think "UAV-unfriendly" is the key word here. So no laws explicitly making it difficult for American companies to develop UAVs, but the FAA's anti-drone culture has left a bad taste in the mouth of big players. Such a shame, as foreign companies are now dominating this landscape as a result.

Getting back to the original point of the post, I'd love to see ANYBODY (even another foreign company) produce something that can provide the I2's feature set (422 or better recording, 360-degree gimbal, redundant batteries and IMUs, single AND dual operator support, and swappable lenses) at ANY price. The more that I think about it, there's truly no other drone at any price point that does what the I2 does. A smallish Freefly w/ an integrated camera/gimbal (or even just a system that's specially optimized for a single camera like the BMPCC6K) would be freaking amazing and would make a ton of money from pros that want options.
 
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About 5 years ago Google actually set up a large R&D facility in Moriarity, N.M. which is just East of my hometown of Albuquerque. The purpose of this facility was to test and develop their new "Solara 50," which was supposed to stay aloft perpetually for 5 years on solar and battery power and deliver Internet access to the masses. It was all the rage in the local papers...millions invested, yada, yada. Well, god forbid one of their test UAV's crashed. Nobody was hurt (of course), but it's my understanding from local sources that the follow-up FAA and NTSB investigations pretty-much put the nail in the coffin for the Solara 50. Almost overnight Google pulled out of N.M. completely and, as far as I know, scrapped the entire project, never to be heard from again. I would bet a paycheck that the U.S.'s "UAV-unfriendly" environment is to blame. Of course, I'm speculating. But my speculation is based on a lot of different data sources both public and private.

Meanwhile, in Dubai, they're developing UAV's with a human payload and guys are strapping rockets to their backs and flying with jet liners. I imagine that FAA would nip that "stuff" in the bud pretty quick. And so, the U.S. is in DEAD LAST in the UAV innovation game. And unless some kind of exception is made or the FAA loosens their grip, it's going to stay that way. And you can quote me on that.

D
All of the above mentioned is probably true, although I wouldn't blame FAA entirely and only for the lack of "Made in USA" or wherever else competition. The robotics obsession is - somehow - exclusive to Asia's modern technocratic culture, therefore Western-ish nations simply can't supply R&D people experienced enough. Moreover, absurdly high cost of development and manufacturing in West is making such enterprise prohibitively expensive, where no bank will put a dime on front. Hence the tenfold price of Alta Freefly UAVs ...

That said, I wouldn't count on anything of Inspire 2 class and price range to come up in nearest future. Even DJI is apparently neglecting this platform in favour of Enterprise industrial solutions. Filmmakers marketing niche happen to be much shallower than everybody was hoping. The concept itself - as revolutionary as it is with X7 camera - will be good for next 2-3 years. Only full frame 6K Hasselblad sensor may make me drooling, but I can't see anything of this nature coming soon. For sure not from Autel or whatever non-Asian brand. IMHO, naturally ...
 
All of the above mentioned is probably true, although I wouldn't blame FAA entirely and only for the lack of "Made in USA" or wherever else competition. The robotics obsession is - somehow - exclusive to Asia's modern technocratic culture, therefore Western-ish nations simply can't supply R&D people experienced enough. Moreover, absurdly high cost of development and manufacturing in West is making such enterprise prohibitively expensive, where no bank will put a dime on front. Hence the tenfold price of Alta Freefly UAVs ...

That said, I wouldn't count on anything of Inspire 2 class and price range to come up in nearest future. Even DJI is apparently neglecting this platform in favour of Enterprise industrial solutions. Filmmakers marketing niche happen to be much shallower than everybody was hoping. The concept itself - as revolutionary as it is with X7 camera - will be good for next 2-3 years. Only full frame 6K Hasselblad sensor may make me drooling, but I can't see anything of this nature coming soon. For sure not from Autel or whatever non-Asian brand. IMHO, naturally ...

I hope you're wrong about this class of drones only lasting another few years. Bridging the gap between prosumer-level drones like the Autel Evo 2 or M2P and the heavy lifters like M600 or Alta is super important, and having a production-quality (4K+ and 422/Raw recording) rig that can fit in the trunk of a car, be deployed in minutes, and flown by a single-operator is obviously useful. I also live in a small apartment, and being able to fit an entire production-ready system in a single case is a must-have.

I've worked on several productions with my I2 where they wish they could afford to hire somebody with a heavy lifter, but it simply didn't make sense with their budget and resources. The I2 was their obvious next-best option.
 
I hope you're wrong about this class of drones only lasting another few years. Bridging the gap between prosumer-level drones like the Autel Evo 2 or M2P and the heavy lifters like M600 or Alta is super important, and having a production-quality (4K+ and 422/Raw recording) rig that can fit in the trunk of a car, be deployed in minutes, and flown by a single-operator is obviously useful. I also live in a small apartment, and being able to fit an entire production-ready system in a single case is a must-have.

I've worked on several productions with my I2 where they wish they could afford to hire somebody with a heavy lifter, but it simply didn't make sense with their budget and resources. The I2 was their obvious next-best option.
You're absolutely correct about advantages of Inspire class drones used in budget productions, no doubt. What I'm trying to say is that the marketing niche in this category is not big enough to justify R&D efforts of DJI, not to mention much smaller players with limited resources. Inspire 2 is amazingly advanced and affordable piece of technology, but it's not really a gold mine like everybody was hoping. Both sides (manufacturers and buyers) quickly realized that the business is not here. Small fraction only, talented and lucky ones, was able to establish and maintain solid position in TV or video production industry. The majority is struggling to survive on oversaturated market ...
 
I would also add that the industry really cannot compete with Boeing, Northrop Grumman, etc for engineers. Sure a startup company like 3DR can offer stock or bonuses if the company succeeds but so can BA and they might actually be worth something someday. And you get the advantage of having a 9-5 job while still getting to work on cutting edge stuff. Because Asian aircraft manufacturers aren't as well established (Boeing's recent problems have caused a drop in US GDP, for example), DJI can compete for talent.

But I think the larger problem with photography drones is one of payload, not the aircraft itself. I'm building a hexcopter that will carry a small mirrorless camera (Canon EOS-M6). Not only is the camera much heavier than it needs to be, (because people like heavy apparently), it is nearly impossible to control remotely with any reliability. Same thing with small GoPro-style cameras. Sony and Olympus had the right idea with the QX100 and the Air, but didn't move at "cell phone" pace and they weren't able to keep up with built-in cameras on iPhones and Pixels (and no API, so you're stuck with the half-baked app). And forget about flying a Blackmagic Pocket on anything less than an Alta, and even if you could there's that remoteability problem again. Unless the mainstream camera makers figure out that they could take the resources they're dumping into reimagining the touchscreen, dump the button madness and put that energy into a great API (and let the app guys build applications), we're going to be stuck with DJI.

BTW, I've been playing around with Garmin's VIRB cameras for a few months now. They have an excellent JSON based API that allows for nearly everything to be controlled over a WiFi connection, Bluetooth or ANT+ (and getting access to it is a free .pdf download). While not in the same league as an X7, it at least shows what can be done when a company that isn't primarily a camera maker thinks about how to build cameras.
 
All of the above re: Inspire2 competition rings true. Not discussed is the US Government and many Fortune 500 companies averse to Chinese based electronics and information of any kind being harvested by China. The National Parks has grounded all their DJI drones. While DJI has created a program to insure there a closed data system to insure US Govt contracts, there remains a market for US made drones from the ground up...with all the components originating from US "silicon valley" makers. One drone I recently flew, made by Terraview, purports to be fully US built...It is a brilliantly made aircraft but its price point currently is around $15-17K. Way beyond an I2. That may change.
 

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Elon Musk, please read this thread and start to think about something of brilliant and less expensive in this trade too!
 
All of the above re: Inspire2 competition rings true. Not discussed is the US Government and many Fortune 500 companies averse to Chinese based electronics and information of any kind being harvested by China. The National Parks has grounded all their DJI drones. While DJI has created a program to insure there a closed data system to insure US Govt contracts, there remains a market for US made drones from the ground up...with all the components originating from US "silicon valley" makers. One drone I recently flew, made by Terraview, purports to be fully US built...It is a brilliantly made aircraft but its price point currently is around $15-17K. Way beyond an I2. That may change.
There is, was, and will be many successful attempts to build commercial UAV on North American soil, by a handful talented and competent nerds ... The point is that no one will be as affordable as Inspire 2, assuming at least equal capabilities. The $25K price tag for awesome AltaX drone without camera is no answer for OP ...
 
I would also add that the industry really cannot compete with Boeing, Northrop Grumman, etc for engineers. Sure a startup company like 3DR can offer stock or bonuses if the company succeeds but so can BA and they might actually be worth something someday. And you get the advantage of having a 9-5 job while still getting to work on cutting edge stuff. Because Asian aircraft manufacturers aren't as well established (Boeing's recent problems have caused a drop in US GDP, for example), DJI can compete for talent.

But I think the larger problem with photography drones is one of payload, not the aircraft itself. I'm building a hexcopter that will carry a small mirrorless camera (Canon EOS-M6). Not only is the camera much heavier than it needs to be, (because people like heavy apparently), it is nearly impossible to control remotely with any reliability. Same thing with small GoPro-style cameras. Sony and Olympus had the right idea with the QX100 and the Air, but didn't move at "cell phone" pace and they weren't able to keep up with built-in cameras on iPhones and Pixels (and no API, so you're stuck with the half-baked app). And forget about flying a Blackmagic Pocket on anything less than an Alta, and even if you could there's that remoteability problem again. Unless the mainstream camera makers figure out that they could take the resources they're dumping into reimagining the touchscreen, dump the button madness and put that energy into a great API (and let the app guys build applications), we're going to be stuck with DJI.

BTW, I've been playing around with Garmin's VIRB cameras for a few months now. They have an excellent JSON based API that allows for nearly everything to be controlled over a WiFi connection, Bluetooth or ANT+ (and getting access to it is a free .pdf download). While not in the same league as an X7, it at least shows what can be done when a company that isn't primarily a camera maker thinks about how to build cameras.

Great point that payload is more a problem than anything. In fact it could be argued that Zenmuse (and CineCore) is the real game changer at DJI. Building a great flying drone is not that much of a challenge these days, but a production capable, fully integrated, optimized, and remote controllable gimbal/camera is non-existent outside of DJI. So many competitors are so close to matching the Inspire but they just miss the mark in ways that the I2 doesn’t. If the Typhoon or Evo 2 has 422 or Raw video capabilities they’d be viable competitors.

I personally don’t mind that DJI is Chinese, but as a business owner that heavily relies on DJI I’d be idiotic not to be a bit worried about this.
 
Payload is becoming less of a concern with cameras like the Zcam E2 line and there are control options out there now that can give you almost the same amount of control as DJI (it is not as integrated but it is there). Gremsy has some high quality gimbals I just wish they would come up with a gimbal sized for the Zcam. Today you can build a sUAS that is about 30% bigger than an I2 with almost all the same features (High quality video with interchangeable lenses in a compact size that fits in a suitcase sized case).

IMG_2093.JPG
 
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Payload is becoming less of a concern with cameras like the Zcam E2 line and there are control options out there now that can give you almost the same amount of control as DJI (it is not as integrated but it is there). Gremsy has some high quality gimbals I just wish they would come up with a gimbal sized for the Zcam. Today you can build a sUAS that is about 30% bigger than an I2 with almost all the same features (High quality video with interchangeable lenses in a compact size that fits in a suitcase sized case).

View attachment 28096

Is this something you designed? I like the way the arms fold compared to an M600.
 
Payload is becoming less of a concern with cameras like the Zcam E2 line and there are control options out there now that can give you almost the same amount of control as DJI (it is not as integrated but it is there). Gremsy has some high quality gimbals I just wish they would come up with a gimbal sized for the Zcam. Today you can build a sUAS that is about 30% bigger than an I2 with almost all the same features (High quality video with interchangeable lenses in a compact size that fits in a suitcase sized case).

View attachment 28096
Impressive project, no doubt and hats off ... But it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, which is about mass-manufactured-in-West equivalent of DJI Inspire 2 with at least the same camera gimbal options ...
 
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Payload is becoming less of a concern with cameras like the Zcam E2 line and there are control options out there now that can give you almost the same amount of control as DJI (it is not as integrated but it is there). Gremsy has some high quality gimbals I just wish they would come up with a gimbal sized for the Zcam. Today you can build a sUAS that is about 30% bigger than an I2 with almost all the same features (High quality video with interchangeable lenses in a compact size that fits in a suitcase sized case).

View attachment 28096

Nice rig and recommendations! If this can be operated with one or two operators and controlled even close to as well as DJI I'd consider it a viable alternative to I2 (without the Skynet-esque sexiness though). Can't exactly call it a competitor since it's custom-built, but I've personally been itching to build a rig like this (since I started with FPV and love working on drones), and I think more drone ops should be empowered to build and repair their own equipment.
 

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