USA Why not a pilot certificate?

[PAEROS]

I understand this is a sore subject for many, mainly due to the cost involved, but in my thinking, if you want to be a pilot of a craft in the NAS you should know the intricacies of the airspace system. There is no better way to learn than to earn your PPL. This is conservative because actually, your commercial certificate at 250 hrs should allow you to be paid for operations in US airspace. Why are we okay with individuals and businesses being compensated for work when they have no clue as to how air traffic flows? These are honest feelings and questions I have, not meant to belittle anyone, but are meant to bring about thought to what sUAS integration means for the future.

 

[Kilinahe Media]

I understand this is a sore subject for many, mainly due to the cost involved, but in my thinking, if you want to be a pilot of a craft in the NAS you should know the intricacies of the airspace system. There is no better way to learn than to earn your PPL. This is conservative because actually, your commercial certificate at 250 hrs should allow you to be paid for operations in US airspace. Why are we okay with individuals and businesses being compensated for work when they have no clue as to how air traffic flows? These are honest feelings and questions I have, not meant to belittle anyone, but are meant to bring about thought to what sUAS integration means for the future.

I believe that's the point of the part 107. I didn't know anything about the NAS prior to needing the 107 certificate, but have a much greater understanding and appreciation for the rules and regulations. I for one didn't like the fact that we needed a full blown license to operate a small unmanned aircraft. I'm a videographer professionally and these sUAS are becoming tools of the trade. Granted it's not the only tool but part of an arsenal. Having to get a full pilots license definitely hindered many from pursuing this form of cinema. Part 107 eases up on some of the requirements and costs but will still keep many donkeys out of the NAS. This is my personal opinion!

 

[Jason1234]

Part 107 eases up on some of the requirements and costs but will still keep many donkeys out of the NAS. This is my personal opinion!

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Donkeys can still fly recreationally with no training or qualifications. The rules currently in place are senseless, creating a new unenforceable framework and unnecessary bureaucracy.

Case in point with regards to airspace... A recreational UAS pilot can fly in much of Class E surface airspace without so much as a notification to ATC as long as they are outside of 5 miles. A LICENSED commercial UAS pilot currently needs an airspace authorization that takes up to 90 days and a onerous web form submission justifying the safety protocols they will take. This applies even if you are a commercial manned aircraft pilot.

Explain to me how this makes the NAS safer. It doesn't. The point is to slow adoption and give the bureaucrats more time to evaluate the situation. They know commercial use will drive the volume of UAS in the air. They don't want to tick off the AMA, and can't get around established legislation. So they target commercial users. Why? Because if they can regulate it, they will.

Commercial users have every incentive to be safe (liability, public perception). Hobbyists largely have little to lose. The thought process is backward.

The original point of this thread is whether a UAS pilot should have a manned pilot license. I believe that concept is ridiculous. I am a licensed private pilot. I see no parallel. Understanding the airspace through a part 107 license should be sufficient. Should the test and licensing requirements be tougher? I have no problem with that as long as it isn't more expensive. However, the restrictions on part 107 pilots should be no greater than on unlicensed hobbyists. Sadly that is not the case as it has been implemented.

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[ADT]

A LICENSED commercial UAS pilot currently needs an airspace authorization that takes up to 90 days and a onerous web form submission justifying the safety protocols they will take.

The airspace authorizations are not going to take 90 days. If you have been keeping up with all that is going on you will know that the FAA is gathering grids around all airports that will set our max allowable altitude. Once that is all received and loaded the airspace authorizations should be pretty close to instant as long as they are within the guideline. If you are requesting an altitude that is outside of that max it could take a bit longer.

Also, I don't think that the web submission is onerous. It is pretty simple and straight forward. I'm just glad that they have a web portal set up and aren't asking us to fax our requests in. lol

 

[Jason1234]

The airspace authorizations are not going to take 90 days. If you have been keeping up with all that is going on you will know that the FAA is gathering grids around all airports that will set our max allowable altitude. Once that is all received and loaded the airspace authorizations should be pretty close to instant as long as they are within the guideline. If you are requesting an altitude that is outside of that max it could take a bit longer.

Also, I don't think that the web submission is onerous. It is pretty simple and straight forward. I'm just glad that they have a web portal set up and aren't asking us to fax our requests in. lol

We will see, but we will have to wait until December (for Class B at least).

The fact still remains that I can be 4.5 miles from a class D airport with more restrictions than a hobbyist, and 6 miles away with no ATC contact required for a hobbyist if in class E. That makes no sense.

It's a bit cumbersome to do the web form, especially when you are out in the field and need to do it on the fly. The lat/long is a bit of a pain.

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[ADT]

It would be nice if they had an app for the submission. That would be great if it could grab your current position when on site.

I've got the Coordinates app for iOS. It is pretty good.

 

[Jason1234]

It would be nice if they had an app for the submission. That would be great if it could grab your current position when on site.

I've got the Coordinates app for iOS. It is pretty good.

That makes a lot of sense (an app). Ideally it would be a report rather than authorization, and the app would return the operational restrictions at the location, if any. Waiting for a human to provide authorization is a problem. Let's say you get a call at 8 pm for a flight the next morning at sunrise. What hours will they process authorizations, and can you really count on it to be "nearly instant." I guess time will tell.

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[ADT]

I think once they get all the grids completed from the airports it will be automated approval unless it is outside of the standard altitude limit.

 

[CraigK]

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Donkeys can still fly recreationally with no training or qualifications. The rules currently in place are senseless, creating a new unenforceable framework and unnecessary bureaucracy.

Case in point with regards to airspace... A recreational UAS pilot can fly in much of Class E surface airspace without so much as a notification to ATC as long as they are outside of 5 miles. A LICENSED commercial UAS pilot currently needs an airspace authorization that takes up to 90 days and a onerous web form submission justifying the safety protocols they will take. This applies even if you are a commercial manned aircraft pilot.

Explain to me how this makes the NAS safer. It doesn't. The point is to slow adoption and give the bureaucrats more time to evaluate the situation. They know commercial use will drive the volume of UAS in the air. They don't want to tick off the AMA, and can't get around established legislation. So they target commercial users. Why? Because if they can regulate it, they will.

Commercial users have every incentive to be safe (liability, public perception). Hobbyists largely have little to lose. The thought process is backward.


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Are you certain about that? I believe the rules for hobbyists changed too. They must be a member of the AMA or some organization and be flying under their safety guidelines and programming or have a 107 license. See here for example. Drone Law Journal. And
Do Hobby Fliers Need to Take the Part 107 Test? - DRONELIFE

 

[Jason1234]

Are you certain about that? I believe the rules for hobbyists changed too. They must be a member of the AMA or some organization and be flying under their safety guidelines and programming or have a 107 license. See here for example. Drone Law Journal. And
Do Hobby Fliers Need to Take the Part 107 Test? - DRONELIFE

Yes I'm certain. Pay to play. Nonsense. No qualifications. Meanwhile, licensed pilots have fewer rights.

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[CraigK]

Lengthy argument on the subject. AMA's "government relations blog."
Might be a while before the dust settles. Seems it might be the AMA pushing the membership requirement.
AMA Exempt from Earning a Remote Pilot’s Certificate (Part 107) | AMA Government Relations Blog

 

[CraigK]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your post. I think the materials I studied for the 107 license taught me enough about airspace. I don't see much sense in learning how to fly a plane in order to fly a drone. Apples and oranges. In fact, I think they need to tailor the requirements more specifically for UAs and not to traditional flying.

With a 400 ft limit most of us will seldom get out of G. When we do it will be special waiver and 90 days of prep. We won't be moving in and out of controlled space like pilots.

 

[Figbar]

It would be nice if they had an app for the submission. That would be great if it could grab your current position when on site.

I've got the Coordinates app for iOS. It is pretty good.

Coordinate APP for IOS? I'm having a heck of tough time determining where I can fly just outside of the inner circle of Class C airspace in Columbus, Ohio. If I had a good google map with these Class C - Class D or any controlled airspace, showing street detail, this would help a lot. Does this Coordinate App do something like this?

Thanks

 

[ADT]

No Coordinates is pretty simple. It gives you the actual coordinates which are needed for airspace authorizations on the FAA website.

 

[CraigK]

Go to Google Earth. Find the lad/long coordinates of the place you want to shoot. The street detail as you say. Then go to SkyVector and use the pip in the middle to locate that coordinate. This is simplest way I know at this point. Free and easy.

 

[Kilinahe Media]

Go to google. Find the lad/long coordinates of the place you want to shoot. The street detail as you say. Then go to SkyVector and use the pip in the middle to locate that coordinate. This is simplest way I know at this point. Free and easy.

Its what I've been using the last little bit! Even use it for the waiver applications to be a bit more accurate!

 

[PAEROS]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your post. I think the materials I studied for the 107 license taught me enough about airspace. I don't see much sense in learning how to fly a plane in order to fly a drone. Apples and oranges. In fact, I think they need to tailor the requirements more specifically for UAs and not to traditional flying.

With a 400 ft limit most of us will seldom get out of G. When we do it will be special waiver and 90 days of prep. We won't be moving in and out of controlled space like pilots.

That's sorta my point of why we should have pilot certs, you said you feel as though it taught you enough about airspace, well there are always things to learn and the biggest killer in aviation is complacency/vfr into ifr.

I would never tell an instructor that I felt I learned everything I needed to know about airspace, but that I studied for months and continued learning for years to the best of my ability to keep my family and other families safe while being in the NAS.

 

[CraigK]

That's sorta my point of why we should have pilot certs, you said you feel as though it taught you enough about airspace, well there are always things to learn and the biggest killer in aviation is complacency/vfr into ifr.

I would never tell an instructor that I felt I learned everything I needed to know about airspace, but that I studied for months and continued learning for years to the best of my ability to keep my family and other families safe while being in the NAS.

Couldn't agree with you more. Never stop learning. I know where I fly though, and I do know the airspace. There are many new areas they need to tighten up specifically for drones. I'd prefer they focus on drone specific issues. Flying in proximity to 700' floor E space for example. It would be a learning detour to teach me how to fly a plane. The time can be better spent imho.

 

[kennedye]

I sent a note to the Foreflight team asking if they would consider offering a less-expensive sUAS subscription that maybe didn't include all the IFR stuff or other things that don't really apply to us but still included up-to-date charts and diagrams and so on, and they wrote back that they'll consider it. That would be a big help IMO for Part 107 pilots.

 

[STClassic01]

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Donkeys can still fly recreationally with no training or qualifications. The rules currently in place are senseless, creating a new unenforceable framework and unnecessary bureaucracy.

Case in point with regards to airspace... A recreational UAS pilot can fly in much of Class E surface airspace without so much as a notification to ATC as long as they are outside of 5 miles. A LICENSED commercial UAS pilot currently needs an airspace authorization that takes up to 90 days and a onerous web form submission justifying the safety protocols they will take. This applies even if you are a commercial manned aircraft pilot.

Explain to me how this makes the NAS safer. It doesn't. The point is to slow adoption and give the bureaucrats more time to evaluate the situation. They know commercial use will drive the volume of UAS in the air. They don't want to tick off the AMA, and can't get around established legislation. So they target commercial users. Why? Because if they can regulate it, they will.

Commercial users have every incentive to be safe (liability, public perception). Hobbyists largely have little to lose. The thought process is backward.

The original point of this thread is whether a UAS pilot should have a manned pilot license. I believe that concept is ridiculous. I am a licensed private pilot. I see no parallel. Understanding the airspace through a part 107 license should be sufficient. Should the test and licensing requirements be tougher? I have no problem with that as long as it isn't more expensive. However, the restrictions on part 107 pilots should be no greater than on unlicensed hobbyists. Sadly that is not the case as it has been implemented.

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"DONKEYS" So that is what you call a hobbyist who probably created the "thing" that you are now flying to try to make money on. I have been flying RC planes since the mid 70's and have been flying Quads since inception and I some what take offence to your name calling. Before you came along I didn't have to put Registered numbers on my equipment. I wasn't limited to 400 hundred foot height restrictions and do you know why? Because we already knew it was unsafe to do so.
Normally I don't post on here, But I "troll" a lot. not because I'm nosey but because I enjoy seeing what people have created and how they created it. Maybe if I was younger, I would be as ambitious as you. maybe not. I'll continue to fly, sail ride motorcycles, etc. but as a hobbyist.
I apologize for my rant.
Editor you can remove this if you wish.