USA 90 Days notice is insane for Part 107

[RMartin]

That's the funny part, at the time I applied I spoke to the head of the southeastern region for implementing drones into the FAA. He insisted I needed both...... The description of a COA verses a COW 'in-house' seems to have changed from late last year to early this year to now.. But it's all ok, someone's got to get the ball rolling, I figure they will just see who gets pissed off the least and go with that rule description. Works for me......

The only thing I would even consider filing a waiver for was daylight ops or operating over people (which frankly is more paperwork than its worth). Everything else we do is covered under authorizations and the local FSDO is really responsive. I've been getting paperwork back in 30-45 days max after I figured out what they were looking for on the first round.

 

[DrunkenCynic]

I had put in a COW to cover the area my COA is, it is our working yard, and just in a class D airspace. The COW was filed last February and my COA expires the end of August, I received an email stating that my COW began processing in March, that was the last email I received. Thankfully the nice guys at the COA office gave me a pen and ink change extending my COA until June 2018. The waiver definitely needs to continue to grow and expand with the growing of this relatively new field of commerce, I hope they do streamline it and make it possible to track a request, currently I am keeping track on a excel spreadsheet I built and update from screenshots of the actual requests

 

[LevitatedMedia]

The only thing I would even consider filing a waiver for was daylight ops or operating over people (which frankly is more paperwork than its worth). Everything else we do is covered under authorizations and the local FSDO is really responsive. I've been getting paperwork back in 30-45 days max after I figured out what they were looking for on the first round.

So is it the local FSDO's approving / denying these or some main office of the FAA?

I mean, I'm kinda of frustrated because I applied for a COA in the middle of July - I just got the email that it's being processed, so does that give them 90 days from the date of the email to me or is it 90 days from the application?

I now see why it's so easy to fly under the radar and be a "hobbyist" and only deal in cash...had a guy recently do that non-sense to me.

 

[licensed pilot]

It takes a long time, main FAA is where approvals take place, and nothing will change until the “instant approval” system the FAA is working on goes live. Until then, we all have to suck it up and yes, we all have lost lots of $$ waiting for approvals.

 

[Dejan Smaic]

I agree, but dealing with the government is slow no matter what you do. Seems to be getting worse than better too.

I began a permit for the Nat.Forest Service in the winter and by the time they passed it over a sundry boatload of desks for approval it was summer and the streams had dried up and it was over 100 degrees and awful so I cancelled the permit (But they keep the money as a processing fee.). Process took about 4-5 months and it is absurd. It's like Gail gets the paperwork from you and it sits with her in her outbox, later she hands it to Bob who doesn't know anything and can't make a decision. He bulk mails it to other departments, and they send it to yet other offices where the secretaries have to figure out who to hand it off to, and then some guy emails for more info and the circle resumes. It really is a joke when you follow the trail. No one can make a final decision so the red tape of federal desk jobs to get it done grows, i.e. "We need to hire more people to handle this workload!"

Decades ago your pilots license was signed at the airport by the CFI and mailed via snail-mail to the FAA and you got your license back via snail-mail in 3 weeks. Now with computer testing, email, and sundry agencies and hands for a 107, it takes them 2 months. Ridiculously inefficient.

Fwiw, I'm near a dam that has a slow leak. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers was supposed to fix it 7 year ago. Nothing yet, but lots of federal bug checkers examining the place and writing reports along with other federal and state environmental people looking and writing reports too. In the drought it could be fixed easily and quickly, but no. Decades maybe...but I digress.

So, why did you file a request through teh NFS? It's my understanding, and a very clear one at that, you are permitted to fly in NFS lands unless otherwise noted.

 

[Casey53]

So, why did you file a request through teh NFS? It's my understanding, and a very clear one at that, you are permitted to fly in NFS lands unless otherwise noted.

It was the otherwise noted part, as it was a commercial shoot (3 people) and those require a permit, drone or still/video from the ground. Here: Sequoia National Forest - Event/Commercial Permits Their absurdity is that they also require permits from anyone else they deal with before they will approve yours, like the county roads department who owns the roadway within the forest for you to park your car at. That cost was $1,600 for three hours where anyone else could park there for a $5 Adventure Pass. Then the insurance, and what county controls the business license too. It's a costly mess!

Our camera club ran into the same NSF nonsense when we tried to get permission (permit) for the club to hold a photo shoot at some grove. They told use they would lock their restrooms up and our group of 8-12 would need to have porta-potties hauled in, then pumped out before hauling out. If you request anything from them, it's gonna cost you a lot. Another person at their office wanted some event at a campground and they told him "No, as they were having their own event there at the time he wanted to do his."

For single or personal use it's generally no issue, but it really becomes a judgement call by the ranger too. My younger sister and her husband are rangers and they deny a lot of stuff as "It stresses the wildlife." They have a lot of regulations to pull out in order to deny stuff.

Dealing with the government is a big ugh!

 

[Dejan Smaic]

It was the otherwise noted part, as it was a commercial shoot (3 people) and those require a permit, drone or still/video from the ground. Here: Sequoia National Forest - Event/Commercial Permits Their absurdity is that they also require permits from anyone else they deal with before they will approve yours, like the county roads department who owns the roadway within the forest for you to park your car at. That cost was $1,600 for three hours where anyone else could park there for a $5 Adventure Pass. Then the insurance, and what county controls the business license too. It's a costly mess!

Our camera club ran into the same NSF nonsense when we tried to get permission (permit) for the club to hold a photo shoot at some grove. They told use they would lock their restrooms up and our group of 8-12 would need to have porta-potties hauled in, then pumped out before hauling out. If you request anything from them, it's gonna cost you a lot. Another person at their office wanted some event at a campground and they told him "No, as they were having their own event there at the time he wanted to do his."

For single or personal use it's generally no issue, but it really becomes a judgement call by the ranger too. My younger sister and her husband are rangers and they deny a lot of stuff as "It stresses the wildlife." They have a lot of regulations to pull out in order to deny stuff.

Dealing with the government is a big ugh!

So, in an ideal world, you pass the overhead costs to the client. But, unless it's a 5 digit production, it becomes cost prohibitive and the work gets passed on to someone else, or you just take a chance and plead ignorance. If people really want to mess with park people, just show up with a remote controller and no drone. Stand there and look up until a ranger or park authority tells you cant fly a drone...you weren't. I'm curious what their reaction would be because you did not do anything illegal or break park rules.

 

[Casey53]

.... If people really want to mess with park people, just show up with a remote controller and no drone. Stand there and look up until a ranger or park authority tells you cant fly a drone...you weren't. I'm curious what their reaction would be because you did not do anything illegal or break park rules.

lol!

Friend entered some casting contest and was casting a sinker on the end of his fishing line for practice and got into trouble with the game warden. No hook was on the line as he was casting a weight for targets (They use Hula Hoops for targeting points in the real contest.), but the warden just knew he was fishing without a license and even called out the head warden too. They finally gave up and left after searching for hooks (Good thing he didn't have any with hm at the time.).

 

[Jacob Scoville]

It was the otherwise noted part, as it was a commercial shoot (3 people) and those require a permit, drone or still/video from the ground. Here: Sequoia National Forest - Event/Commercial Permits Their absurdity is that they also require permits from anyone else they deal with before they will approve yours, like the county roads department who owns the roadway within the forest for you to park your car at. That cost was $1,600 for three hours where anyone else could park there for a $5 Adventure Pass. Then the insurance, and what county controls the business license too. It's a costly mess!

Our camera club ran into the same NSF nonsense when we tried to get permission (permit) for the club to hold a photo shoot at some grove. They told use they would lock their restrooms up and our group of 8-12 would need to have porta-potties hauled in, then pumped out before hauling out. If you request anything from them, it's gonna cost you a lot. Another person at their office wanted some event at a campground and they told him "No, as they were having their own event there at the time he wanted to do his."

For single or personal use it's generally no issue, but it really becomes a judgement call by the ranger too. My younger sister and her husband are rangers and they deny a lot of stuff as "It stresses the wildlife." They have a lot of regulations to pull out in order to deny stuff.

Dealing with the government is a big ugh!

From other emails I've seen from the NFS, it looks like as long as you have a minimal footprint-no more than ordinary hikers- that the permit process would not apply. I would show that official email if anyone ever stopped me while filming.

Foreign tourists and college kids "stress the wildlife" more by littering and going off trail.

 

[Scoobywrx05]

I agree, but dealing with the government is slow no matter what you do. Seems to be getting worse than better too.

I began a permit for the Nat.Forest Service in the winter and by the time they passed it over a sundry boatload of desks for approval it was summer and the streams had dried up and it was over 100 degrees and awful so I cancelled the permit (But they keep the money as a processing fee.). Process took about 4-5 months and it is absurd. It's like Gail gets the paperwork from you and it sits with her in her outbox, later she hands it to Bob who doesn't know anything and can't make a decision. He bulk mails it to other departments, and they send it to yet other offices where the secretaries have to figure out who to hand it off to, and then some guy emails for more info and the circle resumes. It really is a joke when you follow the trail. No one can make a final decision so the red tape of federal desk jobs to get it done grows, i.e. "We need to hire more people to handle this workload!"

Decades ago your pilots license was signed at the airport by the CFI and mailed via snail-mail to the FAA and you got your license back via snail-mail in 3 weeks. Now with computer testing, email, and sundry agencies and hands for a 107, it takes them 2 months. Ridiculously inefficient.

Fwiw, I'm near a dam that has a slow leak. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers was supposed to fix it 7 year ago. Nothing yet, but lots of federal bug checkers examining the place and writing reports along with other federal and state environmental people looking and writing reports too. In the drought it could be fixed easily and quickly, but no. Decades maybe...but I digress.

Sounds like you live in Warren pa. Lol

 

[Casey53]

Sounds like you live in Warren pa. Lol

So. CA so it must be widespread.

Went into one NFS office nearby and no one was there. Place was totally unlocked and zero employees around. Pretty big building with an auditorium too. I signed their guest book and looked at brochures and books until someone finally drove back which was maybe 30 minutes. He didn't have an answer, waited another 15 minutes for another guy who might know something to show up. He knew as much as the first guy. They told me to talk to their main locale forest service office, and they weren't there either. I even sent them a legal-sized envelopes for permits and they lost those too when I did get through to them. I gave up. Absolutely amazing dealing with them, and reminds me of that Emily of the phone company who said, "We're the phone company. We don't care. We don't have to. And I just cut off Peoria."

I had one place in mind in the Mojave Desert and went to a BLM office and spoke to the woman at the desk who seemed to know everything, including the ranger who worked an area I was interested in. She couldn't reach him on the radio and told me to "Just go out there and have fun!" (Imagine that!). Lucky for me that I took her business card off her desk. Sure enough, the BLM ranger/law enforcement guy showed up. He was into the "Hey, you can't do that here" and "You're trespassing on federal land" mode. When I told him "Margaret said it was okay," and showed him her card, he immediately backed off. Helps to know who wields the real power in the office, so get their name.

 

[Scoobywrx05]

So. CA so it must be widespread.

Went into one NFS office nearby and no one was there. Place was totally unlocked and zero employees around. Pretty big building with an auditorium too. I signed their guest book and looked at brochures and books until someone finally drove back which was maybe 30 minutes. He didn't have an answer, waited another 15 minutes for another guy who might know something to show up. He knew as much as the first guy. They told me to talk to their main locale forest service office, and they weren't there either. I even sent them a legal-sized envelopes for permits and they lost those too when I did get through to them. I gave up. Absolutely amazing dealing with them, and reminds me of that Emily of the phone company who said, "We're the phone company. We don't care. We don't have to. And I just cut off Peoria."

I had one place in mind in the Mojave Desert and went to a BLM office and spoke to the woman at the desk who seemed to know everything, including the ranger who worked an area I was interested in. She couldn't reach him on the radio and told me to "Just go out there and have fun!" (Imagine that!). Lucky for me that I took her business card off her desk. Sure enough, the BLM ranger/law enforcement guy showed up. He was into the "Hey, you can't do that here" and "You're trespassing on federal land" mode. When I told him "Margaret said it was okay," and showed him her card, he immediately backed off. Helps to know who wields the real power in the office, so get their name.

Knowing the right person to talk to does help alot . My authorization for any of the NFS in my area is just a phone call and 10 minute too 1hr long wait. But I have also helped them in locating people lost in the woods around the lake and the occasional person that fell over board. They NFS is quite receptive to drones in my area and sees how useful of a tool they can be. State parks on the other hand is a whole nother story. They do not like them one bit and state game lands are even worse.

 

[Casey53]

In CA, the governor was receptive to drones in State Parks, however he left it to the park's area supervisor who usually says "No to drones."

This is a sign I saw that covers most of the area north of Los Angeles with claims of "Negative impacts on the regional wildlife, noisy and intrusive to the natural soundscapes and vistas, and interferes with emergency rescue operations." Pretty much tells all.
.

 

[websiteauthor]

I may be an optimist, but it appears to me that things are moving forward with the COA process.

• I got my first request approved in about 60 days rather than 90+
• I now see grid maps on virtually all airports in north Texas, including the two Class B airports, at airmap.io
• I submitted broad area requests for seven airports yesterday, and today I received acknowledgements that they had been received and assigned tracking numbers

All this suggests to me that FAA really is working to improve the process, hopefully setting the stage for the app-based immediate authorizations we all keep hearing about.

 

[RMartin]

I may be an optimist, but it appears to me that things are moving forward with the COA process.

• I got my first request approved in about 60 days rather than 90+
• I now see grid maps on virtually all airports in north Texas, including the two Class B airports, at airmap.io
• I submitted broad area requests for seven airports yesterday, and today I received acknowledgements that they had been received and assigned tracking numbers

All this suggests to me that FAA really is working to improve the process, hopefully setting the stage for the app-based immediate authorizations we all keep hearing about.

I do not count on any "instant" authorization, but I can see where you should be able to file for airspace authorization and receive a reply and approval in a few days. Immediate authorizations would require a lot more staff and I doubt that the Federal government is going to increase staffing dramatically to support the UAS crowd in this political climate.

 

[SanCap]

I do not count on any "instant" authorization, but I can see where you should be able to file for airspace authorization and receive a reply and approval in a few days. Immediate authorizations would require a lot more staff and I doubt that the Federal government is going to increase staffing dramatically to support the UAS crowd in this political climate.

Some of us are hopeful that this will be an automated app that will use you current location and also use the new Facility Grid Maps allowing you to fly at or below the published altitude for that grid. Giving you an instant yes or no. Smart pilots would have already checked the grids to see if they can fly in that area. ArcGIS Web Application

 

[RMartin]

Some of are hopeful that this will be an automated app that will use you current location and also use the new Facility Grid Maps allowing you to fly at or below the published altitude for that grid. Giving you an instant yes or no. Smart pilots would have already checked the grids to see if they can fly in that area. ArcGIS Web Application

I guess you can always dream. The airspace grid is at a minimum one year out and more than likely 2 years due to the amount of data that needs to be uploaded. I think they are on a six week cycle for updates to the ESRI cloud. I will be happy with a few days wait personally. We operate on a minimum of 48 hour turnaround for flights. That is the bare minimum required for me to prep, plan and coordinate a flight op.

 

[William Gaddy]

I guess you can always dream. The airspace grid is at a minimum one year out and more than likely 2 years due to the amount of data that needs to be uploaded. I think they are on a six week cycle for updates to the ESRI cloud. I will be happy with a few days wait personally. We operate on a minimum of 48 hour turnaround for flights. That is the bare minimum required for me to prep, plan and coordinate a flight op.

They seem to be ahead of schedule-- they updated bravo for the NYC area and San Francisco at the last update, which they said they weren't going to get to until 2018. There's still some missing areas like the delta around KCMI, though.

 

[LevitatedMedia]

Just to vent a bit here because I'm quite frustrated and confused by the varying information I'm getting from my FSDO and a few tower operators. I am a Part 107 pilot (currently have my temp, waiting on my hard card). I have quite a few places in my state (CT) I would love to fly, many of these are Class E, a few Class D... The problem is when I spoke to the FSDO last they said that anything that is in airspace, regardless of where the actual airspace starts (for instance, class E if it starts at 700' AGL) I would still need to fill out a COA and wait the whole long *** process...

Why though? If my max is 400 AGL and 400 above highest point, assuming I don't go over 700' AGL I should legally be able to fly without question....well according to them - I'm wrong?

Anyone have any input?

Edit : To add to my confusion when you look at the ArcGIS map for my area there's places marked 400, I can only assume that's 400ft AGL and does that mean that I don't need a wavier to fly there if it's marked that? God **** I feel stupid asking these questions...

 

[licensed pilot]

Not sure what you are asking but it's rather simple. First, Part 107 requires you to be proficient with Aeronautical charts. Apps are useless for that purpose. This is a great resource: SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts

"The problem is when I spoke to the FSDO last they said that anything that is in airspace, regardless of where the actual airspace starts (for instance, class E if it starts at 700' AGL) I would still need to fill out a COA and wait the whole long *** process..." ??? That makes no sense at all.

All airspace in the US is either controlled or uncontrolled. If you are in controlled Class E -700 or 1200 ft airspace then, yes you must apply for an authorization via the FAA portal. If you are in Class G uncontrolled airspace no COA is required.