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Seller's beware of fraud when selling drones in the classifieds.

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Seller's beware of scams out of Atlanta area. An elaborate scheme to steal my Inspire 2 with all its accessories worth over $15K using stolen bank account information and fraudulent company information was nearly successful. This entire system was paid for through Quickbooks ACH direct deposit from a bank account. The perpetrators commit this fraud by using Quickbooks. Quickbooks authenticates the bank account information then informs the seller that "They have been paid" and that funds would be in my account in three days. The problem is the sending bank doesn't realize the bank account information is stolen and performs the transfer to Quickbooks. Once the person actually owning the account finds out that there are thousands of dollars missing they go to their bank which pulls back the money. But by that time the equipment has been shipped and it's gone, and so is your money.

This scam was run out of the Atlanta area. Here is all the information they provided:

David Crammer & Zackary Sloan, RRT INC EXPRESS THE FIRM The Sky is Not The Limit
(404) 360 - 3447 (CELL) (703) 740 - 0201 (OFFICE) (800) 503 - 8303 (FAX)
455 14TH ST NW ATLANTA, GA 30318 (UNIT 303)

Beware of the following fraud signs and protect yourself if you are selling on these classifieds.
1) Buyer pays stupid money to ship federal express next day delivery, for this system that would have been well over $1500. They have to get the system before the bank account holder figures out what is happening. Quickbooks enables this fraud. by notifying the seller that they have been paid and the money has been transferred to your account. The only thing that has really happened is the bogus buyer has provided stolen bank information so the transaction is not declined when QB processes it. They tell you that you have been paid but in reality you haven't received a penny and you probably won't. First huge red flag for me.
2) Insist that you can verify the bank account information. When the money was put on hold Quickbooks told me to get bank authorization from the buyer and they would release funds. The buyer stopped talking to me
3) Get ID from the buyer and make sure the funds are coming from the same account name at the bank.
4) Have the account holder contact the bank to authorize the payment and get it in writing from the bank. They will do this especially when it involves thousands of dollars which they will be responsible for retrieving.
5) Talk technical to your prospective buyer, throw in little things about drones that only an experienced owner would know.
6) Check out the prospective customer. My criminal had a great rap about their business, holdings, offices etc. I started looking for information on the business and I found nothing in his area. The website was beautiful but many pages had un-related information on them as if the site was stolen from a legitimate business. The domain had only just been registered, the company email address was listed at one of these on-line company registration firms.
7) Do a phone number trace on your buyer. You would be surprised how cheap it is to do a background check. This guy was obviously using prepaid phones that were untraceable.

One last bit of advice, never use Intuit Quickbooks for payments. They are almost as bad as the criminals. First, they put a hold on the funds they received already. Their excuse was they suspected that the transaction was a scam. In this case they were proven right but had they been wrong I wouldn't have seen my money for 270 days. That's right, they can hold your money for up to 270 days waiting for a charge back that may never come just because they are suspicious, for no other legitimate reasons. The losers that are empowered by Intuit to make these decisions were probably slinging burgers at the local pub before this job. I spent days on the phone with multiple "customer service" representatives trying to sort this out. All of them kept telling me my money was released and I would have it the next day. They all lie over there. There are legitimate reasons and buyers out there that conduct on-line transactions for thousands of dollars. Intuit will be making the decision for you or your business if your transaction is legitimate and disregard the banking laws. The worst part is that they state in writing that you were paid and tell you when the funds would be deposited in your account. They do not even attempt to verify that the transaction is real or not. You can be tricked and lied into sending your merchandise to the buyer by Intuit. I called them several times and had no less than 3 people re-assure me that the funds were received and would be in my account within 3 days. I almost fell for it and sent the equipment but I just knew dealing with these idiots over the phone that I better wait. The sad reality is that they actually did receive the funds. For all I know they are still holding on to them.
 
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Thanks for your post, man. Very good info. Also watch out for a guy who goes by Nathan Wisdom in Connecticut. Another scam artist.
 
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Seller's beware of scams out of Atlanta area. An elaborate scheme to steal my Inspire 2 with all its accessories worth over $15K using stolen bank account information and fraudulent company information was nearly successful. This entire system was paid for through Quickbooks ACH direct deposit from a bank account. The perpetrators commit this fraud by using Quickbooks. Quickbooks authenticates the bank account information then informs the seller that "They have been paid" and that funds would be in my account in three days. The problem is the sending bank doesn't realize the bank account information is stolen and performs the transfer to Quickbooks. Once the person actually owning the account finds out that there are thousands of dollars missing they go to their bank which pulls back the money. But by that time the equipment has been shipped and it's gone, and so is your money.

This scam was run out of the Atlanta area. Here is all the information they provided:

David Crammer & Zackary Sloan, RRT INC EXPRESS THE FIRM The Sky is Not The Limit
(404) 360 - 3447 (CELL) (703) 740 - 0201 (OFFICE) (800) 503 - 8303 (FAX)
455 14TH ST NW ATLANTA, GA 30318 (UNIT 303)

Beware of the following fraud signs and protect yourself if you are selling on these classifieds.
1) Buyer pays stupid money to ship federal express next day delivery, for this system that would have been well over $1500. They have to get the system before the bank account holder figures out what is happening. Quickbooks enables this fraud. by notifying the seller that they have been paid and the money has been transferred to your account. The only thing that has really happened is the bogus buyer has provided stolen bank information so the transaction is not declined when QB processes it. They tell you that you have been paid but in reality you haven't received a penny and you probably won't. First huge red flag for me.
2) Insist that you can verify the bank account information. When the money was put on hold Quickbooks told me to get bank authorization from the buyer and they would release funds. The buyer stopped talking to me
3) Get ID from the buyer and make sure the funds are coming from the same account name at the bank.
4) Have the account holder contact the bank to authorize the payment and get it in writing from the bank. They will do this especially when it involves thousands of dollars which they will be responsible for retrieving.
5) Talk technical to your prospective buyer, throw in little things about drones that only an experienced owner would know.
6) Check out the prospective customer. My criminal had a great rap about their business, holdings, offices etc. I started looking for information on the business and I found nothing in his area. The website was beautiful but many pages had un-related information on them as if the site was stolen from a legitimate business. The domain had only just been registered, the company email address was listed at one of these on-line company registration firms.
7) Do a phone number trace on your buyer. You would be surprised how cheap it is to do a background check. This guy was obviously using prepaid phones that were untraceable.

One last bit of advice, never use Intuit Quickbooks for payments. They are almost as bad as the criminals. First, they put a hold on the funds they received already. Their excuse was they suspected that the transaction was a scam. In this case they were proven right but had they been wrong I wouldn't have seen my money for 270 days. That's right, they can hold your money for up to 270 days waiting for a charge back that may never come just because they are suspicious, for no other legitimate reasons. The losers that are empowered by Intuit to make these decisions were probably slinging burgers at the local pub before this job. I spent days on the phone with multiple "customer service" representatives trying to sort this out. All of them kept telling me my money was released and I would have it the next day. They all lie over there. There are legitimate reasons and buyers out there that conduct on-line transactions for thousands of dollars. Intuit will be making the decision for you or your business if your transaction is legitimate and disregard the banking laws. The worst part is that they state in writing that you were paid and tell you when the funds would be deposited in your account. They do not even attempt to verify that the transaction is real or not. You can be tricked and lied into sending your merchandise to the buyer by Intuit. I called them several times and had no less than 3 people re-assure me that the funds were received and would be in my account within 3 days. I almost fell for it and sent the equipment but I just knew dealing with these idiots over the phone that I better wait. The sad reality is that they actually did receive the funds. For all I know they are still holding on to them.
Yah I've alot of scams bro, I always ask questions about drones and where they live , then check phone numbers, etc. I've been lucky so far but some of these crooks are smart! 1 day they mite get me to, good luck bro! Take care out there!
 
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Good information. Scams take many forms. Being a once avid seller on eBay and now on Craigslist, I deal with scammers all the time - almost literally every day. Here's a snippet of an exchange with one fellow who sent $1480 for a $300 recliner. Apparently, it costs $1180 to ship a recliner...LOL...

I love stringing these jerks along. Notice the date.

1646754727178.png

I even put together $1180 cash and put his name on an envelope just to taunt him. "Waiting for your 'movers' to come pick up this money!!" LOL...good time....

1646755026032.png


For me, they are very transparent - almost stupid-easy to spot. I have a pile of fake checks from these people.

Your experience with Intuit is a new one on me. You can bet that I will keep this knowledge in my quiver.

Thanx for sharing your story and glad you came out unscathed on this one!

D
 
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Another one... Bank Payment - Zelle Payment.
I've been victim to a Bank Zelle transfer payment Scam.
I normally won't do any Internet purchase outside of PayPal where I can correct the transaction if needed.

This Scam originated from a Fellow Member of Commercial Drone Forum. He shot me a PM & Referral for a part I was seeking within Classified... The PM basically stated: "Contact Jim, he has a few and may be willing to sell".

I overlooked my own rules & verification depth... normally examine Email, Name, Address, etc anything I can pre-examine. I reached out to the "Jim" and exchanged a few emails. I asked him to send a photo of the parts... but I wasn't alerted because I thought I was woking with a Fellow Drone & Forum Member.

Long story short... Was a scam, Forum User had minimal time on Forum and was most likely the same as the Scammer. He was indicated as Denver, CO... so inside the States. Tried PayPal but just didn't seem to complete correctly (should have been warning sign 2) so in order to complete the purchase, I was receptive to his Bank Zelle request... assuming it was a Bank Payment method as similar to PayPal.

Well Zelle is NOT a recoverable service... no recourse on Zelle payments, it's intended only for those you "Know", not meant to be a Payment to Unknowns. The Receiver can receive funds and transfer to personal CC or Acct, removing it form the Bank Acct associated to the Transfer... and that's the extent of Bank able to retract. The Banks I spoke to since this event have reinforced this verification... they can not recover Zelle payments, they can "try" but with near zero success.

Regarding my scam, once payment was completed and I received the tracking number supplied, in checking tracking number discovered it didn't work. Looking into it... realized I had entered a scam. Within 2 hours, looking on Zelle Website, I didn't see a method to stop, cancel or recall Zelle. Called Bank and they stated there isn't a way to do that in Zelle... you shouldn't use as Payment to Unknowns. We filed the appropriate documents and they were going to make an attempt... 2 months later case was closed and funds were lost to scam.

My conclusion, if PayPal not accepted... protection for "both" Seller & Buyer side isn't available and I won't do bank drafts or forms of payment that is great for Seller and negative for Buyer's protection; Scams exist both ways.
 
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Another one... Bank Payment - Zelle Payment.
I've been victim to a Bank Zelle transfer payment Scam.
I normally won't do any Internet purchase outside of PayPal where I can correct the transaction if needed.

This Scam originated from a Fellow Member of Commercial Drone Forum. He shot me a PM & Referral for a part I was seeking within Classified... The PM basically stated: "Contact Jim, he has a few and may be willing to sell".

I overlooked my own rules & verification depth... normally examine Email, Name, Address, etc anything I can pre-examine. I reached out to the "Jim" and exchanged a few emails. I asked him to send a photo of the parts... but I wasn't alerted because I thought I was woking with a Fellow Drone & Forum Member.

Long story short... Was a scam, Forum User had minimal time on Forum and was most likely the same as the Scammer. He was indicated as Denver, CO... so inside the States. Tried PayPal but just didn't seem to complete correctly (should have been warning sign 2) so in order to complete the purchase, I was receptive to his Bank Zelle request... assuming it was a Bank Payment method as similar to PayPal.

Well Zelle is NOT a recoverable service... no recourse on Zelle payments, it's intended only for those you "Know", not meant to be a Payment to Unknowns. The Receiver can receive funds and transfer to personal CC or Acct, removing it form the Bank Acct associated to the Transfer... and that's the extent of Bank able to retract. The Banks I spoke to since this event have reinforced this verification... they can not recover Zelle payments, they can "try" but with near zero success.

Regarding my scam, once payment was completed and I received the tracking number supplied, in checking tracking number discovered it didn't work. Looking into it... realized I had entered a scam. Within 2 hours, looking on Zelle Website, I didn't see a method to stop, cancel or recall Zelle. Called Bank and they stated there isn't a way to do that in Zelle... you shouldn't use as Payment to Unknowns. We filed the appropriate documents and they were going to make an attempt... 2 months later case was closed and funds were lost to scam.

My conclusion, if PayPal not accepted... protection for "both" Seller & Buyer side isn't available and I won't do bank drafts or forms of payment that is great for Seller and negative for Buyer's protection; Scams exist both ways.
Sorry to hear your experience. Thanx for sharing that information. I, too, have had people request other forms of payment (Viemo???), but turned them down. Like you, I will stick to Paypal backed by my CC. 20+ something years and haven't lost a dime yet.

D
 
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Sorry to hear your experience. Thanx for sharing that information. I, too, have had people request other forms of payment (Viemo???), but turned them down. Like you, I will stick to Paypal backed by my CC. 20+ something years and haven't lost a dime yet.

D
That was my first snagged, I've avoided many in past. My self kicker, if I had taken 20 minutes... as I did post-buy. I would have easily determined a Nigerian Scam.

Normal excuses, It was a busy preoccupied day, felt confident it was a fellow forum member, and just needed to buy and get the little task done! HA! Wrong.

It wasn't a insignificant amount, it was a self-stinger! Glad it was me, and not the Wife... I had no one to be upset with other than myself.
But, it did reinforce my alertness... so always a positive in the dirt pile!
 
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That was my first snagged, I've avoided many in past. My self kicker, if I had taken 20 minutes... as I did post-buy. I would have easily determined a Nigerian Scam.

Normal excuses, It was a busy preoccupied day, felt confident it was a fellow forum member, and just needed to buy and get the little task done! HA! Wrong.

It wasn't a insignificant amount, it was a self-stinger! Glad it was me, and not the Wife... I had no one to be upset with other than myself.
But, it did reinforce my alertness... so always a positive in the dirt pile!
My neighbor just listed a dresser on Craigslist. I told her that it would be unusual if the first 2 inquiries weren't from scammers. I told her what to look for. Syntax like "the item" is a dead giveaway. And for whatever reason, Nigerians abbreviate the word "please" as "plz." They all do it. I can't believe nobody passed a memo around the office to NOT use "plz." Idiots. It blows my mind that people are still fooled by the age-old scam of "I'll send extra money so you can wire funds to my mover." My god...I built a website about my experience all the way back in 2007 (built in Notepad like a caveman).

I just looked back on that old web page. It still cracks me up.


D
 
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Another one... Bank Payment - Zelle Payment.
I've been victim to a Bank Zelle transfer payment Scam.
I normally won't do any Internet purchase outside of PayPal where I can correct the transaction if needed.

This Scam originated from a Fellow Member of Commercial Drone Forum. He shot me a PM & Referral for a part I was seeking within Classified... The PM basically stated: "Contact Jim, he has a few and may be willing to sell".

I overlooked my own rules & verification depth... normally examine Email, Name, Address, etc anything I can pre-examine. I reached out to the "Jim" and exchanged a few emails. I asked him to send a photo of the parts... but I wasn't alerted because I thought I was woking with a Fellow Drone & Forum Member.

Long story short... Was a scam, Forum User had minimal time on Forum and was most likely the same as the Scammer. He was indicated as Denver, CO... so inside the States. Tried PayPal but just didn't seem to complete correctly (should have been warning sign 2) so in order to complete the purchase, I was receptive to his Bank Zelle request... assuming it was a Bank Payment method as similar to PayPal.

Well Zelle is NOT a recoverable service... no recourse on Zelle payments, it's intended only for those you "Know", not meant to be a Payment to Unknowns. The Receiver can receive funds and transfer to personal CC or Acct, removing it form the Bank Acct associated to the Transfer... and that's the extent of Bank able to retract. The Banks I spoke to since this event have reinforced this verification... they can not recover Zelle payments, they can "try" but with near zero success.

Regarding my scam, once payment was completed and I received the tracking number supplied, in checking tracking number discovered it didn't work. Looking into it... realized I had entered a scam. Within 2 hours, looking on Zelle Website, I didn't see a method to stop, cancel or recall Zelle. Called Bank and they stated there isn't a way to do that in Zelle... you shouldn't use as Payment to Unknowns. We filed the appropriate documents and they were going to make an attempt... 2 months later case was closed and funds were lost to scam.

My conclusion, if PayPal not accepted... protection for "both" Seller & Buyer side isn't available and I won't do bank drafts or forms of payment that is great for Seller and negative for Buyer's protection; Scams exist both ways.
PayPal is not protection for the buyer and the seller, only the buyer. I will never take PayPal not just because they hold your money for up to 10 days, and they charge too high a fee for the transaction, but mainly because all the buyer has to do is make the claim that the item was shipped damaged and your screwed. So here is my experience with PayPal and how I lost a drone. I shipped a Mavic several years back, pristine condition as all of my drones were. Everything about the sale was great, the buyer was responsive and paid through PayPal. I shipped the drone which was in perfect condition, I even shot a video of me flying and packing it up for shipment. Shortly after receiving the drone the buyer crashed it. He then filed a claim with PayPal claiming that I sent it damaged, and even provided pictures. I know he was lying and so does he. PayPal immediately took my money and opened an investigation which lasted almost a month. The end result was they claimed I could not prove I didn't send the drone damaged and they returned the guys money. Never got the money, lost the drone. When I offered to send PayPal the evidence that I filmed they refused to review it stating that there was no way to tell when that footage was taken. As a seller there is absolutely nothing you can do. I will never use the services of PayPal again. Now I only accept Credit Cards, Bank Check, Money Order or hopefully the person buying my drone is in my state and we can meet face to face. Oh yeah, and my son lost an RC car the same way to PayPal. You think I would have been smart enough to learn my lesson back when that happened.
 
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PayPal is not protection for the buyer and the seller, only the buyer. I will never take PayPal not just because they hold your money for up to 10 days, and they charge too high a fee for the transaction, but mainly because all the buyer has to do is make the claim that the item was shipped damaged and your screwed. So here is my experience with PayPal and how I lost a drone. I shipped a Mavic several years back, pristine condition as all of my drones were. Everything about the sale was great, the buyer was responsive and paid through PayPal. I shipped the drone which was in perfect condition, I even shot a video of me flying and packing it up for shipment. Shortly after receiving the drone the buyer crashed it. He then filed a claim with PayPal claiming that I sent it damaged, and even provided pictures. I know he was lying and so does he. PayPal immediately took my money and opened an investigation which lasted almost a month. The end result was they claimed I could not prove I didn't send the drone damaged and they returned the guys money. Never got the money, lost the drone. When I offered to send PayPal the evidence that I filmed they refused to review it stating that there was no way to tell when that footage was taken. As a seller there is absolutely nothing you can do. I will never use the services of PayPal again. Now I only accept Credit Cards, Bank Check, Money Order or hopefully the person buying my drone is in my state and we can meet face to face. Oh yeah, and my son lost an RC car the same way to PayPal. You think I would have been smart enough to learn my lesson back when that happened.
The Paypal process is definitely not idiot-proof. But it IS idiot-resistant. Unfortunately, if someone wants to be a real jerk, there's not much protection against that. If you could do it over again, how would you execute that transaction? I kind of doubt if anybody is willing to send money ahead of the item (like we did in the "old days" of eBay). Interesting trust conundrum.

D
 
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The Paypal process is definitely not idiot-proof. But it IS idiot-resistant. Unfortunately, if someone wants to be a real jerk, there's not much protection against that. If you could do it over again, how would you execute that transaction? I kind of doubt if anybody is willing to send money ahead of the item (like we did in the "old days" of eBay). Interesting trust conundrum.

D
Can be done if you have access to using credit cards. I use a local packer and pay the extra few dollars for them to pack my item. They inspect the item with you for damage before they pack it, part of their liability. When a seller takes a credit card there is always a chance the card will be disputed, that happens. But the credit card companies have a pretty through process of processing your disputed item. Their first reaction is not to take the money back, they notify the seller of the dispute and have a dispute center that allows the seller to provide evidence that the item was shipped for example, and the condition it was packed in. At least with Visa, AMEX or MC you can actually talk to a dispute agent and send them your evidence. You can hardly even find an Email address for PayPal. If you are a legitimate seller you have no cause to worry, the CC companies will not automatically assume you did something wrong. So I have one more story, I had a customer in my other business that I shipped a product to and he claimed he never received it and disputed the charge. I simply provided the evidence from the shipper that it was delivered. Talking to the agent she disclosed that this was not the first time this person made this claim. But regardless, the buyer got his money back, I got to keep the original funds, and the bank paid. Of course he got the item for free but some day they will catch up to him. Not exactly worth going to jail for $450.

Of course when your selling or buying a $10,000 drone you can always spend the extra $150 and go to one of the many small Escrow-Style payment processors. One popular one is TRUSTTAP.
 
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PayPal is not protection for the buyer and the seller, only the buyer. I will never take PayPal not just because they hold your money for up to 10 days, and they charge too high a fee for the transaction, but mainly because all the buyer has to do is make the claim that the item was shipped damaged and your screwed. So here is my experience with PayPal and how I lost a drone. I shipped a Mavic several years back, pristine condition as all of my drones were. Everything about the sale was great, the buyer was responsive and paid through PayPal. I shipped the drone which was in perfect condition, I even shot a video of me flying and packing it up for shipment. Shortly after receiving the drone the buyer crashed it. He then filed a claim with PayPal claiming that I sent it damaged, and even provided pictures. I know he was lying and so does he. PayPal immediately took my money and opened an investigation which lasted almost a month. The end result was they claimed I could not prove I didn't send the drone damaged and they returned the guys money. Never got the money, lost the drone. When I offered to send PayPal the evidence that I filmed they refused to review it stating that there was no way to tell when that footage was taken. As a seller there is absolutely nothing you can do. I will never use the services of PayPal again. Now I only accept Credit Cards, Bank Check, Money Order or hopefully the person buying my drone is in my state and we can meet face to face. Oh yeah, and my son lost an RC car the same way to PayPal. You think I would have been smart enough to learn my lesson back when that happened.
Incorrect... PayPay does protect "Both" sides. Sorry for your experiences, but that's not accurate to state for PayPal, they do oversee & insure payment is transferred and retains association to funds on both sides. I didn't contradict "your" sale experience, I added an additional variation of scam & caution on payment methods... specifically forms of Bank Transfers (Zelle) that can't be retracted / withdrawn... and for Others to be aware. We have a trust in Banks and tools provided, when that isn't accurate with some Bank Services provided.

Regarding PayPal, your statement is inaccurate. PayPal does provide methods to inspect & correct a case. Although, You are correct, the "burden of proof" does more often fall on the Seller's side... that comes from experience & historical data that a large majority of the scrams are Sellers, not Buyers. The scam normally is getting a person to send payment, and a false Sale is performed more often than a Buyer not making payment. Additionally, a Buyer's offer to provide additional Rush Shipping Extra Funds can be considered another form of Sale Scam... an upsale that entices opportunity to gain more funds (carrot greed) and conceal Buyer's oddities.

On the eBay side (PayPal associated company), I've had a few incidents of "dishonest" Sellers misrepresenting a product thinking Buyer wouldn't notice... that's quick to correct with eBay & PayPal transaction. Exp1: P4Pv2 advertised & sold when actually it was a P4P and he even attempted to argue my claim wasn't accurate. This claim included multiple large shipping containers and the return shipping costs. That one took time to resolve.... but wasn't a Scam, it was a false advertisement... dishonest.

On Credit Card transaction example; I purchased bike components from a Bike Web site that never arrived. Seller was extremely experienced in working with Credit Card company's policies on dispute & shipment delays, etc and was able to drag the ordeal out 10 months. His scam was selling & not delivering, using the funds from multiple sales for months before refunding... or exhausting the Buyer's motivation to pursue.

Are there other Protective methods... sure, are their Better methods... under some conditions, certainly. That doesn't change the protection of PayPal towards the Buyer & Seller. Regarding a false Buy & Return... that's a dishonest Buyer, not necessarily a scam. A "Scam" is to obtain funds falsely... a gain. What's the scam in this incidence, they don't gain funds or product? If a PayPay transaction, the proof that product is returned is required with the refund of funds. My bad experience on eBay & PayPal did provide insight to protect & prove; depending on product value, learning to have the Proof. 1) Photos and/or Video with a today's Date within the images (newspaper, watch face, postage envelope, news on TV, ect., 2) My document: Shipper's Proof of Condition: a simple inspection document stating item was in "as advertised condition" when they packed it up. 2b) That also protects you, if claimed item was damaged, that claim falls to the Shipper if you have a signed document on Pre-Ship.

You are correct, using a CC also provides great Buyer protection. I actually tag my CC to my PayPal Account, I don't use my Bank Acct associated on PayPal for these types of transactions. If disputed, I have both PayPal & CC Company's Dispute Services at my disposal.

Your comments on CC Bank protection, where the Buyer received funds on false delivery claim and you received your funds too. That's a Bank Policy based on amount of loss & operation profit/loss costs. If the action costs more to pursue than to dismiss, they'll dismiss vs wasting time & money. That changes based on value & total associated costs involved.

Regarding your recent sale & description of events, had pretty clear indicators it wasn't a safe sale. From what you described, I wouldn't have made the Sale. Using a software accounting product (Quickbooks) as a payment method wouldn't be one I would accept. The "Rush Ship" extra funds upsale is a clear indicator.
Again, sorry for your experience and glad it was caught & avoided.

That doesn't change my warning regarding Bank drafts or Bank Transfers that don't provide Buyer's assurance, and Zelle product provided by most Banks is NOT protective for the Buyer; Absolutely not safe for Buyer... like many Bank transfers, it's a one-way transaction normally.

Credit Cards are Great, PayPay not as great but fast, Both together Great!

I've purchased "used" $15-18K sUAV kits, and $10-15K Camera kits and if PayPal not acceptable that provides me a Buyer's protection... no buy! Money Orders, Bank Draft, Bank Transfer... not safe for Buyer and is often associated with Seller Scam Requests. My only purchase option is PayPal with CC.

I've lost once, and that was due to Bank transfer instruments, Never by PayPal in Sales or Buys.
 
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PayPal is not protection for the buyer and the seller, only the buyer. I will never take PayPal not just because they hold your money for up to 10 days, and they charge too high a fee for the transaction, but mainly because all the buyer has to do is make the claim that the item was shipped damaged and your screwed. So here is my experience with PayPal and how I lost a drone. I shipped a Mavic several years back, pristine condition as all of my drones were. Everything about the sale was great, the buyer was responsive and paid through PayPal. I shipped the drone which was in perfect condition, I even shot a video of me flying and packing it up for shipment. Shortly after receiving the drone the buyer crashed it. He then filed a claim with PayPal claiming that I sent it damaged, and even provided pictures. I know he was lying and so does he. PayPal immediately took my money and opened an investigation which lasted almost a month. The end result was they claimed I could not prove I didn't send the drone damaged and they returned the guys money. Never got the money, lost the drone. When I offered to send PayPal the evidence that I filmed they refused to review it stating that there was no way to tell when that footage was taken. As a seller there is absolutely nothing you can do. I will never use the services of PayPal again. Now I only accept Credit Cards, Bank Check, Money Order or hopefully the person buying my drone is in my state and we can meet face to face. Oh yeah, and my son lost an RC car the same way to PayPal. You think I would have been smart enough to learn my lesson back when that happened.
yes ive been warned about PayPal also , i wont use it to buy or sell anything
 
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All great tips... interesting!
If physical store, I'll use CC.
Individual Seller, only PayPal.
 
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Seller's beware of scams out of Atlanta area. An elaborate scheme to steal my Inspire 2 with all its accessories worth over $15K using stolen bank account information and fraudulent company information was nearly successful. This entire system was paid for through Quickbooks ACH direct deposit from a bank account. The perpetrators commit this fraud by using Quickbooks. Quickbooks authenticates the bank account information then informs the seller that "They have been paid" and that funds would be in my account in three days. The problem is the sending bank doesn't realize the bank account information is stolen and performs the transfer to Quickbooks. Once the person actually owning the account finds out that there are thousands of dollars missing they go to their bank which pulls back the money. But by that time the equipment has been shipped and it's gone, and so is your money.

This scam was run out of the Atlanta area. Here is all the information they provided:

David Crammer & Zackary Sloan, RRT INC EXPRESS THE FIRM The Sky is Not The Limit
(404) 360 - 3447 (CELL) (703) 740 - 0201 (OFFICE) (800) 503 - 8303 (FAX)
455 14TH ST NW ATLANTA, GA 30318 (UNIT 303)

Beware of the following fraud signs and protect yourself if you are selling on these classifieds.
1) Buyer pays stupid money to ship federal express next day delivery, for this system that would have been well over $1500. They have to get the system before the bank account holder figures out what is happening. Quickbooks enables this fraud. by notifying the seller that they have been paid and the money has been transferred to your account. The only thing that has really happened is the bogus buyer has provided stolen bank information so the transaction is not declined when QB processes it. They tell you that you have been paid but in reality you haven't received a penny and you probably won't. First huge red flag for me.
2) Insist that you can verify the bank account information. When the money was put on hold Quickbooks told me to get bank authorization from the buyer and they would release funds. The buyer stopped talking to me
3) Get ID from the buyer and make sure the funds are coming from the same account name at the bank.
4) Have the account holder contact the bank to authorize the payment and get it in writing from the bank. They will do this especially when it involves thousands of dollars which they will be responsible for retrieving.
5) Talk technical to your prospective buyer, throw in little things about drones that only an experienced owner would know.
6) Check out the prospective customer. My criminal had a great rap about their business, holdings, offices etc. I started looking for information on the business and I found nothing in his area. The website was beautiful but many pages had un-related information on them as if the site was stolen from a legitimate business. The domain had only just been registered, the company email address was listed at one of these on-line company registration firms.
7) Do a phone number trace on your buyer. You would be surprised how cheap it is to do a background check. This guy was obviously using prepaid phones that were untraceable.

One last bit of advice, never use Intuit Quickbooks for payments. They are almost as bad as the criminals. First, they put a hold on the funds they received already. Their excuse was they suspected that the transaction was a scam. In this case they were proven right but had they been wrong I wouldn't have seen my money for 270 days. That's right, they can hold your money for up to 270 days waiting for a charge back that may never come just because they are suspicious, for no other legitimate reasons. The losers that are empowered by Intuit to make these decisions were probably slinging burgers at the local pub before this job. I spent days on the phone with multiple "customer service" representatives trying to sort this out. All of them kept telling me my money was released and I would have it the next day. They all lie over there. There are legitimate reasons and buyers out there that conduct on-line transactions for thousands of dollars. Intuit will be making the decision for you or your business if your transaction is legitimate and disregard the banking laws. The worst part is that they state in writing that you were paid and tell you when the funds would be deposited in your account. They do not even attempt to verify that the transaction is real or not. You can be tricked and lied into sending your merchandise to the buyer by Intuit. I called them several times and had no less than 3 people re-assure me that the funds were received and would be in my account within 3 days. I almost fell for it and sent the equipment but I just knew dealing with these idiots over the phone that I better wait. The sad reality is that they actually did receive the funds. For all I know they are still holding on to them.
Thanks for post
 

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