BLOS flight

[ReesAerials]

Hello all. I am preparing a bid for a beyond line of sight contract with the M6. The bid has no due date, and I am really the only one engaging with this company so time is really not a consideration at this point. I have a few questions for those of you who may have considered similar flight paths.

1- Has anyone been able to incorporate a constant "AGL" altitude sensor with this bird? Ultimately, I would like to be able to set the altitude above ground level and have the bird fly the entire flight at that altitude. This leads me to question two...

2- Now the the M200 has obstacle avoidance, is there a way to incorporate this into the M600?

3- ADS-B. Who is using it, and who did you purchase it from? I have seen a few manufacturers out there, but I have only every dealt with them on manned aircraft and just accepting the company propaganda pitch is not typically who I am. I would like to get some in the field reporting from someone that is using it.

So, the reason that I am considering the above options for my M600 is to make a good case for the BLOS with the FAA. I think if I can dial these three things in, I can demonstrate the ability for the bird to maintain the pre-programmed flight path (which I will do while it is actually within my line of sight), I have a good chance of getting the waiver from the FAA.

I know this is a lot to chew on, your thoughts are welcome. @Florida Drone Supply @Advexure

 

[Dr. Ifly Drones]

What imaging system do you need to fly for the job?

 

[ReesAerials]

What imaging system do you need to fly for the job?

It's visual. I am using the X5R

 

[Florida Drone Supply]

When the M600 was released, this was part of the release announcement:

"The M600 is fully compatible with the DJI Onboard SDK and Mobile SDK to meet the requirements of those building software for industrial applications. It has a dual parallel CAN and API ports for connecting DJI devices including the Guidance sensor system, the RTK GNSS units or third party components of your choice."

Guidance: A revolutionary visual sensing system for aerial platforms - DJI

From what I remember, there was initially not support for the M600 - it was always one of the coming soon features. It was released prior the M600 and was built around the M100 platform.

Additionally, if you are flying beyond line of sight, the sensing distance on Guidance may not be enough for you. Guidance can see for about 65 feet in all directions. But if you are using this as a safety argument and not to act similiar to a laser altimeter for height control, you may be able to convince those involved that the copter will fly at the height you command and the Guidance acts as a sense and avoid system for obstacle avoidance.

I have not installed a guidance system on a copter so I can not really speak to its specific capabilities.

I have installed a simple video switcher on a copter that switched between multiple FPV cams. This would be interesting to consider as well. Because the FPV feed on an M600 is routed through LB, you can get a very good camera feed as far as the copter is controllable. All cams feed into the switcher and the switcher feeds into LB. Switch is designed to be run with a servo cable from a receiver - or in this case from the A3. If you had multiple FPV cams (forward, left, right, down, etc) and could switch between them from the ground, you could also provide another method of situational awareness by having multiple camera feeds available while the copter is beyond line of sight. I know this is beyond what you were asking about, but just something that came to mind as I was typing.

 

[Dr. Ifly Drones]

It's visual. I am using the X5R

So, I may be misunderstanding this but, wouldn't a P4P do everything you want in your description? Obstacle avoidance, long range, etc...

 

[White Airwolf]

So, I may be misunderstanding this but, wouldn't a P4P do everything you want in your description? Obstacle avoidance, long range, etc...

The Phantom machines are toys.
You wouldn't want to be seen by a client, who would be paying a lot of money for the shoot, to be flying a hobby drone that you can buy at Best Buy!
"Phantom' is a bad word on this forum as it is an "Inspire' forum.
You should re phrase it to "Why not use an Inspire"? instead.
I'm sure the OP will respond more favourably to that.

 

[White Airwolf]

Why do you need to fly BVLOS anyway?
Sounds like you are trying to fly a "Make work" project.
Why not just fly where the shoot is? A lot safer too and easily accepted by governing jurisdictions.

 

[Rich Sugden MD]

Hello all. I am preparing a bid for a beyond line of sight contract with the M6. The bid has no due date, and I am really the only one engaging with this company so time is really not a consideration at this point. I have a few questions for those of you who may have considered similar flight paths.

1- Has anyone been able to incorporate a constant "AGL" altitude sensor with this bird? Ultimately, I would like to be able to set the altitude above ground level and have the bird fly the entire flight at that altitude. This leads me to question two...

2- Now the the M200 has obstacle avoidance, is there a way to incorporate this into the M600?

3- ADS-B. Who is using it, and who did you purchase it from? I have seen a few manufacturers out there, but I have only every dealt with them on manned aircraft and just accepting the company propaganda pitch is not typically who I am. I would like to get some in the field reporting from someone that is using it.

So, the reason that I am considering the above options for my M600 is to make a good case for the BLOS with the FAA. I think if I can dial these three things in, I can demonstrate the ability for the bird to maintain the pre-programmed flight path (which I will do while it is actually within my line of sight), I have a good chance of getting the waiver from the FAA.

I know this is a lot to chew on, your thoughts are welcome. @Florida Drone Supply @Advexure

No way w. FAA ... BLOS means you have no direct visual control of the drone .. and a aircraft midair would be possible w/o you being able to avoid it ... forget it, and avoid very bad press !!

 

[ReesAerials]

well I have been away for a week or so. I am glad to come back and see so many helpful responses. People who absolutely no concept of sUAS, unless they are taking pretty pictures... someone who thinks the P4 is actually an enterprise solution for anything, and a Dr. who has no idea what has been granted telling me that my request will never be approved.

Excellent. Is there a forum out there with actual professionals flying these things for real money and real projects? I don't expect you to post the answer here... because the mod's do not like anything that would take their client base away. you can PM me if you have a suggestion.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

The Phantom machines are toys.
You wouldn't want to be seen by a client, who would be paying a lot of money for the shoot, to be flying a hobby drone that you can buy at Best Buy!
"Phantom' is a bad word on this forum as it is an "Inspire' forum.
You should re phrase it to "Why not use an Inspire"? instead.
I'm sure the OP will respond more favourably to that.

Total crap... many people use P4P for work. And anyone can buy an Inspire at Best Buy... they must be toys to eh?
Please curb your attitude here. Thanks.

 

[kidroc]

The Phantom machines are toys.
You wouldn't want to be seen by a client, who would be paying a lot of money for the shoot, to be flying a hobby drone that you can buy at Best Buy!
"Phantom' is a bad word on this forum as it is an "Inspire' forum.
You should re phrase it to "Why not use an Inspire"? instead.
I'm sure the OP will respond more favourably to that.

Very capable toys..some of you guys just kill me how old are you?

 

[dougcjohn]

Interesting, I’ve never seen an I2 at a BestBuy, but you’re correct... on BB web site, they offer an I2. You’ll have to find camera else where, but the AC is offered.

The M600Pro is a much different bird, and capable of full DSLR or Red. And Phantom 4 now has a RTK enterprise version. And... ?

Lost the point, we’re all here to assist and learn from each other... BLOS is in the dialog of FFA & various Govt’s so it’s on the horizon to become more accepted. To obtain & develope requires discussion & creativity... in the end we’ll all benifit if done safely, and in this example the discussion was very professional seeking input & suggestions to provide a safe method to “present to FFA” for approval.

I’d like to see the development for BLOS, it’d also be useful most likely for those flights where you barely see the AC.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Hello all. I am preparing a bid for a beyond line of sight contract with the M6. The bid has no due date, and I am really the only one engaging with this company so time is really not a consideration at this point. I have a few questions for those of you who may have considered similar flight paths.

1- Has anyone been able to incorporate a constant "AGL" altitude sensor with this bird? Ultimately, I would like to be able to set the altitude above ground level and have the bird fly the entire flight at that altitude. This leads me to question two...

2- Now the the M200 has obstacle avoidance, is there a way to incorporate this into the M600?

3- ADS-B. Who is using it, and who did you purchase it from? I have seen a few manufacturers out there, but I have only every dealt with them on manned aircraft and just accepting the company propaganda pitch is not typically who I am. I would like to get some in the field reporting from someone that is using it.

So, the reason that I am considering the above options for my M600 is to make a good case for the BLOS with the FAA. I think if I can dial these three things in, I can demonstrate the ability for the bird to maintain the pre-programmed flight path (which I will do while it is actually within my line of sight), I have a good chance of getting the waiver from the FAA.

I know this is a lot to chew on, your thoughts are welcome. @Florida Drone Supply @Advexure

My partner just purchased an M600 Pro, so I'm randomly trolling the M600 forum and stumbled upon your query. I realize that your question is almost 2 years old, but I'll answer it anyway since nobody else has.

I assume that your BLOS missions will require automation...

The term you're looking for is called "Terrain Aware." And, as of this writing, the only Waypoint software I know that is terrain aware is MapPilot. I use the Pro "Business" version 2.9.2. MapPilot utilizes SRTM (Shuttle RADAR Topography Mission) and is very accurate and reliable. As of this writing I have only used MapPilot with my Phantom 4 Pro, but we will be using MapPilot on my partner's M600 Pro for LIDAR missions.

Sorry this is so late. Good luck.

D

 

[dougcjohn]

I'll add to the late response... if you've found a working solution I'd be intersted in hearing how you're working this on the M600Pro.

The MapPilot app is pretty good, and a solid iOS option. Has greatly improved in a short time period becoming a strong player.

Two other popular products, European which us normally Android based. 1) UgCS and 2) DroneHarmony.

UgCS: A popular established alternative offering terrain following / aware as one of several advanced featurs is UgCS which is a Notebook (Mac or PC) working with RC Controller with Android tablet or phone. It's highly accepted in larger eenvironments, and offering large scale BVLOS control dispatch stations for multiple sUAV's... although that module would be beyound the scope for 1 man operation.

It has much higher cost associated offering price options from 1 month to full perpetual license ownership. Ground Station Software | UgCS PC Mission Planning

Supports about every popular UAV, including DJI, Yuneec H520, Mavlink Pixhawk, Mikrokopter, Lockheed Martin, etc.

DroneHarmony: New product that gained quick popularity, with a different methodology. It does not have a perpetual owned license and only offers a monthly / yearly subscription.
It's Android based, no iOS and developing a Web Based product useable on multiple platforms. Drone Harmony - Reinventing flight planning for DJI Drones

It offers a fresh new way to plan, construct and monitor mission. Although it's yearly cost is an investment to consider against relatively no-cost solutions.

 

[Donnie Frank]

I'll add to the late response... if you've found a working solution I'd be intersted in hearing how you're working this on the M600Pro.

The MapPilot app is pretty good, and a solid iOS option. Has greatly improved in a short time period becoming a strong player.

Two other popular products, European which us normally Android based. 1) UgCS and 2) DroneHarmony.

UgCS: A popular established alternative offering terrain following / aware as one of several advanced featurs is UgCS which is a Notebook (Mac or PC) working with RC Controller with Android tablet or phone. It's highly accepted in larger eenvironments, and offering large scale BVLOS control dispatch stations for multiple sUAV's... although that module would be beyound the scope for 1 man operation.

It has much higher cost associated offering price options from 1 month to full perpetual license ownership. Ground Station Software | UgCS PC Mission Planning

Supports about every popular UAV, including DJI, Yuneec H520, Mavlink Pixhawk, Mikrokopter, Lockheed Martin, etc.

DroneHarmony: New product that gained quick popularity, with a different methodology. It does not have a perpetual owned license and only offers a monthly / yearly subscription.
It's Android based, no iOS and developing a Web Based product useable on multiple platforms. Drone Harmony - Reinventing flight planning for DJI Drones

It offers a fresh new way to plan, construct and monitor mission. Although it's yearly cost is an investment to consider against relatively no-cost solutions.

Are all the aforementioned apps terrain aware? If so, do you know which protocols/utilities they're using to identify terrain?

D

 

[dougcjohn]

Are all the aforementioned apps terrain aware? If so, do you know which protocols/utilities they're using to identify terrain?

D

Yes, both are Terrain aware. UgCS, I think was one of the early providers of terrain altitude following several years ago. They started in full scale aviation and branched to lg UAV onto sUAV.

They all have their own terminology, you’d have to reach out to each for specific details.