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UK Cost of adding a 2nd UAV to our PfCO

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Morning all,

So we’ve just had our PfCO renewed by the CAA, but this only covers our P3 Pro. I appreciate that we have to re-submit a new Ops Manual detailing our I1 Pro now we have upgraded, but can anyone tell me a cost? Is it another £130 just to have the UAV details changed (obviously our risk assessments etc will stay the same as we’re still flying VLOS & in the same weight category).


Cheers,
Martin.
 
From my understanding of it, I think the simplest way would have just been to add it as an amendment during your renewal, then everything would have been included within your renewal fee (or the slightly more expensive version of the renewal fee). I think if you submit it as an update now, then it'll be another £130 to cover the CAA's 'costs' in reading it.

Possibly best alternative is just to update your manuals for now so that you've it all updated for your Insurer, then just send the updated lot to the CAA at your next renewal in a years time.

AFAIK, you don't need send them an update to your ops manual instantly you get a new drone in your fleet. I'd expect the only real exception to that would probably be for a transition between sub 7Kg and >7Kg e.g. if you'd added an M600 and needed to update your permissions/apply for the heavier class.
 
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Add the 2nd aircraft in the same format you have your 1st aircraft make sure you reference its manual etc as you did for the 1st one. make sure you add aircraft log maintenance log same as the p3.

As the inspire1 is in the same weight class as the p3 you do not need to send anything to the CAA.

Update your insurance as well.

If you went to a heavier class then you need a flight test on 7-20kilo but any aircraft sub7 you can just add to your ops manual.


Only send ops manuals to the CAA for renewal or adding night flying or aircraft class
 
Morning all,

So we’ve just had our PfCO renewed by the CAA, but this only covers our P3 Pro. I appreciate that we have to re-submit a new Ops Manual detailing our I1 Pro now we have upgraded, but can anyone tell me a cost? Is it another £130 just to have the UAV details changed (obviously our risk assessments etc will stay the same as we’re still flying VLOS & in the same weight category).


Cheers,
Martin.
It could be classed as a technical change to your existing (standard) permission since you will have to amend your ops manual to not only include another technical spec table outlining the MTOM, number of motors, thrust etc, etc but also possible add a change in your checklist since the airframe is different and may require a different regime.
This would be a technical change to your ops manual and so would be £173 (assuming it can be done by them in an hour!)
 
It could be classed as a technical change to your existing (standard) permission since you will have to amend your ops manual to not only include another technical spec table outlining the MTOM, number of motors, thrust etc, etc but also possible add a change in your checklist since the airframe is different and may require a different regime.
This would be a technical change to your ops manual and so would be £173 (assuming it can be done by them in an hour!)


No same weight class, no costs involved at all under standard permissions.
 
Add the 2nd aircraft in the same format you have your 1st aircraft make sure you reference its manual etc as you did for the 1st one. make sure you add aircraft log maintenance log same as the p3.

As the inspire1 is in the same weight class as the p3 you do not need to send anything to the CAA.

Update your insurance as well.

If you went to a heavier class then you need a flight test on 7-20kilo but any aircraft sub7 you can just add to your ops manual.


Only send ops manuals to the CAA for renewal or adding night flying or aircraft class
This is true for like for like swap (in the event of a crash etc - with a change of S/N). However, adding an aircraft constitutes a change to your fleet. Since serial numbers are required to be held by the CAA (as well as your insurance carrier) by not informing the CAA of your addition how can adherence to the ANO be maintained which requires details of each aircraft to be on file?
 
Okay I'm telling you that they do not require any aircraft changes to be sent to them in the same weight class.

Your CAA pfco is for the weight class read it.

Your pfco is for what is in your ops manual. But amendments such as aircraft and text changes, check lists or apps you use only need to be sent to the CAA at time of renewal.

Just make sure your insurance is up to date with the new aircraft.

If we all sent them amendments every time we changed aircraft they'd never cope


Only weight class would require a change or aircraft type to say fixed wing

So I recently added fixed wing to my pfco so that cost me 173 pounds as a change to my pfco

so I now hold
Multi rotor
0-7kilo
7-20 kilo
Fixed wing
0-7kilo

and i can fly them all at night.
 
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Cheers guys,

First thing I did was add it to the insurance.

I will ensure OM is updated (haven’t flown it on a commercial job yet) and will submit this next year when renewal is due.
 
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Interesting as I’m writing my manual now and I’m under the impression that any changes to craft could be a re submit be pending on how you read it as any “significant” changes to the OSC will require re assessment by the CAA

IMO this is how I would read it

1: Changing a like for like craft you would be able to just amend and record changes.

2: Adding similar craft with no change in existing operating procedures same as above, just amend and log changes.

3: adding a craft that requires new operating procedures or checks so for instance change from a P3 to an Inspire you would need additional checks and procedures for the landing gear, or adding a larger hex still below 20k but would require different procedures could again be classed as a significant change.

I don’t agree with it and think it’s a little bonkers but that how I’m reading it.

I stand by to be flamed by you guys already operating .
 
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1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Depends if its in the same weight class

So your inspire checklist might be slightly different but you just add it to the ops manual and those extra checks if required.

You could add a Yuneec in the same weight class if you had p3 for example and bought a Yuneec its in the same weight class so add to manual and update it.

Only send to the CAA at renewal time.


IF you go outside your weight class so your pfco says 0-7 kg and you want 7-20KG then thats where you need to get your pfco updated and a flight test with the new weight class if you don't already have it.
 
Interesting as I’m writing my manual now and I’m under the impression that any changes to craft could be a re submit be pending on how you read it as any “significant” changes to the OSC will require re assessment by the CAA

IMO this is how I would read it

1: Changing a like for like craft you would be able to just amend and record changes.

2: Adding similar craft with no change in existing operating procedures same as above, just amend and log changes.

3: adding a craft that requires new operating procedures or checks so for instance change from a P3 to an Inspire you would need additional checks and procedures for the landing gear, or adding a larger hex still below 20k but would require different procedures could again be classed as a significant change.

I don’t agree with it and think it’s a little bonkers but that how I’m reading it.

I stand by to be flamed by you guys already operating .
That's exactly how I interpret it (hence my comment re like for like etc)
Any change in procedures requires alteration to your checklists and therefore by definition is a change in operating procedure
But hey-ho....I'm all for giving the money grabbing CAA vultures less cash !
 
Okay so if you wanted BVLOS or EVLOS or night flying or weight class change those are significant change in operation procedures.
 
That's exactly how I interpret it (hence my comment re like for like etc)
Any change in procedures requires alteration to your checklists and therefore by definition is a change in operating procedure
But hey-ho....I'm all for giving the money grabbing CAA vultures less cash !

Tell me about it, tbh I guess this is one of those things that won’t be a problem until something happens, not sure how they would react on renewal when you provide extensive logs for a craft not listed but I would bet that would go though.

It would be in the event of an incident that these things would get torn apart I suspect.

Still knee deep in CAP and ANO, I’m sure I have read something about UAS in this paperwork somewhere
 
The info given to me by my NQE when I was doing PfCO matches Mark's info. So, so long as it's in your weight class (<7Kg or >7Kg) and in the same permissions class as you already have, then you just add it to your ops manual and send it in as a change at renewal. So even going from a Mavic to an Inspire or the M200 would just be add to your Ops Manual but only send it to the CAA at renewal time. Same if you crash your drone, get a new one and have a different serial no... no need to send it in, just do it as an update at renewal time.

(Exactly how much of a change it is (minor/major) and whether you manage the cheaper or more expensive renewal is known only to the CAA at present, although I've read it to be no-change or just correcting spelling/grammar/errata = lower fee, updates to operating procedures and additional drones = bigger, therefore they want paying to read it.)

If you make an operational change between weight class, or want to change from your previously supplied permissions e.g. a new safety case, then it's a submit to CAA to obtain the uprated permission first - either ahead of, or at renewal time.

The thing to make sure is that you do update your insurance so that any new drones are covered for business use to the required level - given their past form with insewerants cover, that would be the main thing the CAA would be concerned about.

The CAA's turn-around times are bad enough as it is... if everyone sent them an update each time they added/changed/farted a new drone, then they'd never get anything done ever (although I'm sure they'd be happy for the fees to be paid ;) :D )
 
It took them 7 weeks to return my renewal as it was - I had two minor errors that I’d missed & only got it back 4 days before a large job I had booked.

I appreciate that they’re swamped right now with people trying to fly legally - but they really don’t help..
 
Interesting question then, if you were adding a below 7kg that you have not had before so you only currently have >7 <20k listed would that need to be sent in ?
 
Don't think so, just at renewal. They see heavier weight as being more involved, cumbersome, dangerous (esp. if it falls on someone's head - kinetic energy & all that), and so in need of a bit more care from the start. So if you're good for heavy, the the lighter stuff is already covered.

Same as If you sit a >7kg flight test right from the start, you don't need retest to fly with a <7kg.
 
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