Cruzroy Battery Mod

[Brian Fist]

I will add that I don't think that adding a BMS is a bad thing for a drone battery.

You need some sort of "fuel gauge" built in. Again the Inspire 2 is where they got it half right. The batteries have a BMS built in, but the aircraft and the charging bay should have all the "smarts" to keep two batteries in calibration and in-sync. Unfortunately they just exposed all the cell pairs and still let each individual BMS do the balancing in recharge. You are just asking for two batteries to go "out of sync" in that regard. But, then again, they sell batteries, so it is a win-win for them if they do.

Honestly, if a newer, higher-density battery tech came out and allowed for say double the power in the same size/weight as current LiPoHV, I have zero problem with adapting it to the already existing Inspire 1 BMS technology. Sure it would be utilized in a "discharge only" aspect with the charging being done outside of the built-in BMS, but I have zero problems saying it could be made reliable and cost effective. Thus I think any such innovations will only help the Inspire 1 last for a long time.

Problem is that such an evolution would literally be a quantum-leap from where we are at now. I cannot see that happening within the next 5 years. Maybe 10 years we will see something like that. But in any case the fact is that we will be looking for battery solutions for a while yet.

Now, if another "big-frame" drone with more modern electronics and capabilities becomes available, unless it is priced "within reach" the way the Inspire 1 is, I don't see it being adopted and utilized in the same fashion the existing Inspire 1 and Inspire 2 drones are.

Honestly, I see drones getting smaller and smaller and camera innovations and technology being micronized to the same scale to the point that within 10 years the idea of an Inspire 1 will seem almost perverted in scale and scope. But, fact of the matter is, there are great camera options available at a VERY compelling price-point and a ton of these birds out there, so I can't see them dying off any time soon, or becoming any less useful long-term.

 

[mrpackethead]

Yes, Brian certainly know a thing or two about this stuff. Let's hope he will develop and share some solution we are all after ...

Hes already shared more than enough that its possible to craft a solution together. If you want him to produce a step by step guide and kitset, well, i reckon your out of luck.. That will invoke the DJI demi-god 'shutdown'.

 

[Dobmatt]

Hes already shared more than enough that its possible to craft a solution together. If you want him to produce a step by step guide and kitset, well, i reckon your out of luck.. That will invoke the DJI demi-god 'shutdown'.

I realized that. I went thru all these research and development steps long ago until I've reached the point where my technical knowledge wasn't just good enough to go further where Brian is right now. My point is that if "crafting a solution together" will be the adventure reserved to a few brave and skilled enough only like him or you, than this entire discussion and thread is absurdly senseless, pardon my honesty ... If sharing this knowledge is not an option, then what's the point of repeatedly stating that "I can do this and that, no problem, but I will not tell you how because this and that ..." An elite group of maniacally dangerous modders? Fine, there always be a guerrilla approach for nitro-ed cars, pulling tractors exploding at the competition with thousands of spectators etc. There always be a weekend warrior who think that fixing a brake fluid line is a no brainer. So, don't tell me that this is about responsibility for publicizing a pipe bomb making instructions or a conflict with DJI's intellectual property ... This is all about money. Not that there's anything wrong with this approach ...

 

[mrpackethead]

I can't speak for Brian, but i can for myself. Being brutally honest, the reason for not sharing what i now know, is actually driven by a selfish desire to keep my drone airborne. Maybe it is about money, i dont' want to have to buy a new drone.

I have zero interest in selling batterys/kits to anyone.

 

[cruzroy]

i agree with mrpackethead , im never in this for the money.....except the 3d drone designs, that i sell the files instead of the parts, is very profitable, truth ive been doing this for a long time since i purchase my inspire 1, making it faster stronger, fly longer, and i have learned alot, knock on wood no LIPO fires, truth be told, there are solutions out there, you cant over think it,people like brian NGvincent, shang for Hawaii, hg battery corp out of china....you guys know who you are, i have pinouts drawings, and haw even looked under a microscope at the BMS, funny thing is, they where making a clone battery on amazon and eBay, for half the cost, but by the time i thought about buying it, it was gone, but i have a big collection of TB47 48 49 9000, that im good for a while, whats weird is battery hacks for there other drones are fairly easier, you figure DJI would worry about that, there is even someone making boards for the drones to bypass everything, there code fights.....but i love tinkering, and at my age, it keeps the mind going, if anyone here want to have a drone that flies great, and could be modded to death, buy the old FC40 or phantom one, i had one that flew for one hour, with no camera, and super stable and no restrictions..but compared to the inspire, it was tiny, the best solution is to gut a inspire 1 and build and design it with a audrino board and flight controller.....there would be no limits,,,,the biggest problem with people trying the mod, they dont crack the code for "NON-DJI BATTERY" trust me makes big difference, you do lose some telemitry, but it works​

 

[Brian Fist]

As others have said, I am not keeping things "close to the vest" out of greed or some wort of elitism, it is just that I know certain things that are not made public and understand that there is a real, valid reason that if certain information is released it would spell the end of the Inspire 1. I have three rigs, I want them to be able to fly, long term. Is that selfish, somewhat, but at the same time I already know that there are possibilities for options to keep them flying for quite some time.

As I stated before, I never said I would NEVER release what I know. A good portion of it is that someone who dedicates time, energy and a certain amount of money into an endeavor wants to see it come to fruition. In this case, I want to finish my experiments, designs, development and then release a compendium of the information in a way that can be utilized by all for the most complete source. I absolutely HATE IT when you release something, say it is a work in progress and someone else comes along and totally bastardizes everything you did and screws up all your work just for an ego-trip or looking to get hits on youtube.

Dealing with liPos is quite dangerous and a big concern I have, having looked into the legal side of things, is not only liability, but also the fact that if these things are made too unsafe, you could have people (politicians to put it bluntly) looking to outright BAN something like the Inspire 1 because it is now somehow "unsafe" or "weaponized" against the "greater good".

The drone market has already taken off in a HUGE way monetarily. It is now a major source of innovation and there is tons of investors of big dollars looking to grab a piece of it. Older technology is a threat to their profitability and if anyone doubts that then you have never paid attention to all the older tech that got destroyed just to be replaced by less-innovative and less powerful tech that someone else wanted to make money on (Apple, Apple, Bueller, Bueller).

So, yeah, I am sure some will view it in the short-term as being selfish, but when I am ready to package it all up and let everyone do with it as they please, I will most certainly post it up. As a small idea of why things sometimes take me as long as they do, I have 5 children, 4 are autistic (a few are pretty far down the spectrum) and two also have medical disabilities, so my time is constantly spread out pretty thin.

 

[Greg Huntoon]

The thing is, I don't need someone here to be my dad. I have 3 grown, successful children, and 4 grand children, 1 who is also autistic. There isn't any spelling the end about it, the Inspire 1 is at an end. Maybe it's my feeling that DJI is the Apple of drones thing, but DJI is a closed architecture like Apple. InspirePilots is one of the most uptight groups in terms of people sharing. They keep that info close to the vest. Most of the other groups, blogs, etc., that I'm a member of, people seem much more willing to share and help one another. I don't know if it's fear of DJI or money but it does feel really uptight here. There's just an arrogant 'hey, watch me now..." vibe that may just go with owning an Apple or DJI product that's hard to shake. Feel free to disagree, but that's my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, people here do help one another and there's good info being shared but it's pretty shallow and superficial. Basically it's like, here's what I know by peeking in the window but I'll never tell you what I saw when I went in. You figure it out if you choose to go in. There isn't a one stop shop here, you're on your own to piece together what you find from all of the islands if info scattered around the net.

For example, another unnamed xxxxxxPilots groups I'm a member of, supporting a competing drone, has a DIY manual that's member updated. All info is compiled and shared. Pinouts, mods, fixes, you name it, they deep dive it. Even though they sell kits and have small businesses, people there even share their 3D models of parts and mods. RCGroups and GitHub are others.

When I bought Apple products back in 2012, it was more to jump on my last chance to have an Apple product that had been touched by Steve. I admired Apple ever since the Apple I kits and the Apple II came out. I actually met Woz and was just feet away from Jobs back in 83 at a show when the Lisa was introduced. I thought it was great, but not 20k+ great in 1980s dollars. Then when the original Mac came out in 84 I was blown away. I could not believe what they did with 64k of ROM. I had always wanted a Mac but went the Amiga route instead. I hadn't made the Mac purchase happen until 2012, so for me, it's more an admiration of the design intent and appreciation of the technology. I now have my Mac / NEXT PC. Unfortunately, that ship sailed and I'll never own another Apple product. Apple goes against everything I believe in terms of life cycle, throw away and modding. I'm a firm believer in, you should be able to mod and play with the tech you buy. I'm insatiably curious and have a desire to mod and make it mine.

For me, DJI with the Inspire 1 struck the same cord as Apple back in the day. I couldn't help but have admiration for the design and technology of the Inspire 1. Yes, the Inspire 2 is an incremental improvement but not the same leap that the Inspire 1 made at the time.

I like to play with my toys but some manufactures , like DJI and Apple, want to tell me how to play. For me, that basically sucks the fun out of it. Unlike some, mine is a real admiration and desire to be a part of that history, not a need to posses a status symbol or a work tool. It's kind of like owning an original Laborghini Countach from that poster in the 80s, even though James May said his dream car totally sucked, smelled of exhaust and had no visability. It killed his teenage dream, so much for status symbols.

 

[cruzroy]

WOW i felt a shot on the YOUTUBE videos for hits.....................ouch.....

 

[Brian Fist]

WOW i felt a shot on the YOUTUBE videos for hits.....................ouch.....

Actually, I was most certainly NOT referring to you.

Your videos give as much *REAL* information as you can get. You do it for FACTS, not some sort of glossed over "look at me!!!" stuff that is normally 80% of what youtube is.

Sorry that I didn't clarify that more directly. Your videos are more than worthwhile.

 

[Brian Fist]

The thing is, I don't need someone here to be my dad. I have 3 grown, successful children, and 4 grand children, 1 who is also autistic. There isn't any spelling the end about it, the Inspire 1 is at an end. Maybe it's my feeling that DJI is the Apple of drones thing, but DJI is a closed architecture like Apple. InspirePilots is one of the most uptight groups in terms of people sharing. They keep that info close to the vest. Most of the other groups, blogs, etc., that I'm a member of, people seem much more willing to share and help one another. I don't know if it's fear of DJI or money but it does feel really uptight here. There's just an arrogant 'hey, watch me now..." vibe that may just go with owning an Apple or DJI product that's hard to shake. Feel free to disagree, but that's my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, people here do help one another and there's good info being shared but it's pretty shallow and superficial. Basically it's like, here's what I know by peeking in the window but I'll never tell you what I saw when I went in. You figure it out if you choose to go in. There isn't a one stop shop here, you're on your own to piece together what you find from all of the islands if info scattered around the net.

For example, another unnamed xxxxxxPilots groups I'm a member of, supporting a competing drone, has a DIY manual that's member updated. All info is compiled and shared. Pinouts, mods, fixes, you name it, they deep dive it. Even though they sell kits and have small businesses, people there even share their 3D models of parts and mods. RCGroups and GitHub are others.

When I bought Apple products back in 2012, it was more to jump on my last chance to have an Apple product that had been touched by Steve. I admired Apple ever since the Apple I kits and the Apple II came out. I actually met Woz and was just feet away from Jobs back in 83 at a show when the Lisa was introduced. I thought it was great, but not 20k+ great in 1980s dollars. Then when the original Mac came out in 84 I was blown away. I could not believe what they did with 64k of ROM. I had always wanted a Mac but went the Amiga route instead. I hadn't made the Mac purchase happen until 2012, so for me, it's more an admiration of the design intent and appreciation of the technology. I now have my Mac / NEXT PC. Unfortunately, that ship sailed and I'll never own another Apple product. Apple goes against everything I believe in terms of life cycle, throw away and modding. I'm a firm believer in, you should be able to mod and play with the tech you buy. I'm insatiably curious and have a desire to mod and make it mine.

For me, DJI with the Inspire 1 struck the same cord as Apple back in the day. I couldn't help but have admiration for the design and technology of the Inspire 1. Yes, the Inspire 2 is an incremental improvement but not the same leap that the Inspire 1 made at the time.

I like to play with my toys but some manufactures , like DJI and Apple, want to tell me how to play. For me, that basically sucks the fun out of it. Unlike some, mine is a real admiration and desire to be a part of that history, not a need to posses a status symbol or a work tool. It's kind of like owning an original Laborghini Countach from that poster in the 80s, even though James May said his dream car totally sucked, smelled of exhaust and had no visability. It killed his teenage dream, so much for status symbols.

I love what you mention about Apple, because I am sure most here have no clue, but I was a Apple "hacker" back in the day with my own group.

I used my Apple hacker handle for my screen name on here, just in case anyone caught it. (Hint: Beyond Pinball)

Actually, I think the big deal with the Inspire 1 stuff being kept "close to the vest" has more to do with the fact that it is a REAL big-body drone with awesome capabilities. A Mavic flying through the air is a "meh" experience. Bring out an Inspire 1 and pure AWE is marveled by all.

That coupled with REAL cameras and everything about them is just excellent. Thus why all of us that can appreciate them still do in such a coveted way.

You have the "show-off" group who wants to put down anything that isn't the "latest and greatest", but fact of the matter is the Inspire 1 is every bit as good as the Inspire 2 for a good 80-90% of applications. I am sure when the Inspire 3 comes out there will be a lot of people throwing big money at them and crowing about how great they are, but again, for most peoples applications, the Inspire 1 is a great value.

That being the case there is a VERY strong drive to keep them in the air and "current" as much as possible. Fact of the matter is that batteries are the "sore spot" in that it is a closed system (but for good reason). It is highly reliable and the only thing that is keeping them from being used more "as toys" or for "sport" is because of the lack of aftermarket or extended battery options.

Very few want their multi-thousand dollar investment that works great as a flying camera to be bastardized and villainized. As they are getting older and cheaper and with batteries being such an issue the prices are dropping and more and more are thinking they are "cool" for experimenting and messing around with. Those of us that take it a bit more seriously are genuinely concerned (and with good reason) that these great big white-whales in the sky could be marked as a "bad piece of tech" from many angles, including those that want to sell newer versions for profit, those that want to promote smaller more "invisible" tech and even those that don't like drones period and want them ALL out of the sky. Any time something can be made a target, it usually ends up being one.

Ultimately the cost perspective has kept many from "taking the plunge". There is a lot of mis-information (like people saying the Inspire 2 flies better, what garbage as they are the same in that regard), hyperbole and flat out lies out there. Why? Mostly ego and stupidity (see the previous comment about "newer is better in ALL cases" mentalities).

Do I think there will be a renascence of the Inspire 1. Most certainly. The information about the batteries will be disseminated to the masses and there will be some reasonable effort put into keeping these things flying. They will, ultimately, be replaced by something better, but for a lot of us that day is what, 5 years, 10 years, maybe 20 years away???

There is still plenty of time involved. In regards to people "teasing" and not sharing, I think the MAJORITY of that goes back to the "lies" aspect. People "thought" they figured it out, spoke up, but found out they were no-where near where they thought they were.

In my case, I *HAVE* shared a good portion of what I know with other individuals, some on this forum. So I have no worries about being "shamed" into feeling that I somehow don't know what I know. I have also explained to those other parties some of the stuff that cannot be made public and why, and everyone is good with that. Again, part of my hesitance is because some of this information WILL be misused and people will be deceived. I have a very moral and ethical personality and the thought of enabling scammers is unconscionable.

 

[Brian Fist]

Oh, I forgot to mention the other "elephant" in the room...

Comparing the Inspire 1 to "other drones" just does not work. Most other drones are cheap in comparison. The Inspire 1 is not. There has been many thousands of dollars invested by MOST of the owners here.

Just because they are older they have started to become much less expensive. Some people have picked up complete setups with bad batteries for only a few hundred dollars, which is INSANE to the rest of us that have 10x-30x more invested.

Plus a lot of these are still used professionally. Show up to a shoot with an Inspire 1 and you still get respect, show up with a Mavic Air 2 and you will probably be asked if you take your profession seriously. The Phantom 4 Pro is still a highly viable commercial product, yet some people will insist on an Inspire series to do their shoot.

So comparing most other products to an Inspire doesn't wash. Does Yuneec, Autel and Skydio all have commercial offerings, sure. And I am sure some are MUCH better than the Inspire 1. But outside of the higher end commercial offerings by those bigger players, the rest are far from considered viable by most.

I have a Parrot Anafi in my fleet. The Parrot USA is a MAJOR commercial offering. But it is no more than a Anafi with a bigger battery, a mutli-camera setup with more capabilities on the camera side. Other than that the exact same software is used.

Fact of the matter is that less expensive, less capable and greater user base does not equal better overall just because people post up "all the info" in a "how to" manual. That just allows others to get in and do more quickly without learning and growing to get there. Some would say to do that with something as large and dangerous as an Inspire 1 would be fairly irresponsible. Thank goodness we don't have people going for "distance records" with Inspire 1 drones, since if these fall out of the sky they will cause serious property damage or will flat out kill someone. A Mavic series drone won't do anywhere near the damage (regardless of how irresponsible it still is to do it with those, and we ALL know how many videos there are of people doing that exact kind of stunt).

 

[The Editor]

This thread is in danger of going off topic with ramblings.

Can we keep it on topic please, otherwise it will get cleaned up.

 

[mrpackethead]

Just because they are older they have started to become much less expensive. Some people have picked up complete setups with bad batteries for only a few hundred dollars, which is INSANE to the rest of us that have 10x-30x more invested.

Thats me! I've recently aquired an I1 setup with very very low hours, with lots of extras ( just not lots of batterys ) for sub NZD$1000. ( ~US700 It had an X5 camera. I'm looking at another one, this weekend for similar coins.. It will be nice to have a few, then if need be i can canabialise for parts.. I'm miserable when it comes to spending money, but at these prices,they are very good buying.

Curious @Dobmatt , you mentioned an arudino flight controller.. Does that exisit for an I1?

 

[Dobmatt]

Thats me! I've recently aquired an I1 setup with very very low hours, with lots of extras ( just not lots of batterys ) for sub NZD$1000. ( ~US700 It had an X5 camera. I'm looking at another one, this weekend for similar coins.. It will be nice to have a few, then if need be i can canabialise for parts.. I'm miserable when it comes to spending money, but at these prices,they are very good buying.

Curious @Dobmatt , you mentioned an arudino flight controller.. Does that exisit for an I1?

Haha, "canabialise" ... You mean "cannibalize", right? ... Well, unless you smoke a lot of cannabis stuff LOL ...

No, that wasn't me. Cruzroy mentioned Arduino flight controller to replace original one, but this is really "cruzy" idea which may or may not work and has nothing to do with this topic. As The Editor is suggesting, let's stay on the track for battery issue ...

 

[Greg Huntoon]

My intent wasn't to ruffle any feathers. I'm just sad and angered to see Inspire 1's end up on some e-waste barge due to a lack of batteries. To me the Inspire 1 is a technological work of art like a Bang & Olufsen Beogram linear tracking turntable, B&O Beocenter, Nakamichi System One, vintage Magnepan speakers, NEXT Computers, Connely scale V8 engine, or the original iPhone. I could go on. Suffice it to say I really appreciate good craftsmanship and industrial design. Certain technology should be preserved, not tossed away like some simple commodity. Some technology was a turning point that someone would be hard pressed to improve upon, since, they got it right the first time.

Case in point, my Inspire 1 is a V2. I hated the ugly larger gimbal mount, (an obvious after thought for larger cameras), that IMHO, destroyed the sleek lines of the original so I bought the original slim gimbal mount since I will probably only ever use the X3, or maybe a Z3 and wanted to preserve its original lines. Everything else is stock V2.

Yeah, I've had the bug for a while now...

 

[Greg Huntoon]

BTW - I also have to believe that all of the default BMS parameters for TB47s and TB48s regardless of how many are exactly the same within those respective models. I would assume that DJI has a certain quality expectation around cell specs from the battery manufacturer allowing them to replicate the default parameters. I can't believe they vary from TB48 to TB48. This would make no sense from a high volume manufacturing perspective.

 

[Brian Fist]

BTW - I also have to believe that all of the default BMS parameters for TB47s and TB48s regardless of how many are exactly the same within those respective models. I would assume that DJI has a certain quality expectation around cell specs from the battery manufacturer allowing them to replicate the default parameters. I can't believe they vary from TB48 to TB48. This would make no sense from a high volume manufacturing perspective.

Actually, I can confirm that they do vary GREATLY between batteries. They actually put the BMS into "self calibration" mode at the factory, which determines most of the variances between packs automatically. There is a set of baseline parameters they set, but once the calibration is done it is VERY specific to THAT pack. That is why redoing it "after the fact" as a re-pack is not so easy. And without redoing the calibration you end up having a pack that will not be managed and aged properly.

 

[Greg Huntoon]

Actually, I can confirm that they do vary GREATLY between batteries. They actually put the BMS into "self calibration" mode at the factory, which determines most of the variances between packs automatically. There is a set of baseline parameters they set, but once the calibration is done it is VERY specific to THAT pack. That is why redoing it "after the fact" as a re-pack is not so easy. And without redoing the calibration you end up having a pack that will not be managed and aged properly.

It would be nice to find out if the BMS can be put into "self calibration" mode again like a secret button combination when re-celling. I always figured a long term solution would be re-celling since the power heads with BMS are no longer manufactured, but cells might be able to be sourced. Ideally it would be to have quick swap plugs between the power heads and cells so a plug connecting the thermistor, balance, and power leads, then a button combination to initiate a "self calibration". This is probably a pipe dream though.

 

[Brian Fist]

There is no "self-calibration" button to be pressed, either physically, electronically, or programatically.

To re-calibrate you need to reset a bunch of parameters, initiate a mode, set a few other parameters (basically "tricking" it to "factory mode") and then making a call to perform the calibration.

For that to happen the cells have to be in a certain "state" as well, otherwise it won't work and the values derived will be worthless (actually worse than worthless as they will screw up the charging process).

 

[Vietnam_i1v2]

Wow đã khá lâu rồi. Vậy chúng ta có điều gì mới để giúp pin lâu hơn không?