Epic 2 Mile Fly Away!

AndyM · May 22, 2015

The Editor said:
NO, NO, NO... I DON'T sell them!!

I don't think the OP means you personally sell them fwiw. I think he means "If you sell them" referring to DJI

The Editor · May 22, 2015

AndyM said:
I don't think the OP means you personally sell them fwiw. I think he means "If you sell them" referring to DJI

Understood.

kenny kustom · May 22, 2015

Why were you not in beginner mode???

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Loaderbull · May 22, 2015

kenny kustom said:
Why were you not in beginner mode???

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Very good point...

Playing devils advocate here, if one didn't read the forums, how would you know what good 'Mod' values were/are and that you should check them before every flight?

I do check them now, but perhaps for my first few flights i didn't as quite simply there was nothing to say i should. I've been flying model aircraft for years, i own a Trex 600 Nitro, 450 Electric and many planes, so didn't jump straight in to a £2400 craft. However some do, and i think this is one of the problems also...

Just my thoughts

Kauaigene · May 22, 2015

Loaderbull said:
Very good point...

Playing devils advocate here, if one didn't read the forums, how would you know what good 'Mod' values were/are and that you should check them before every flight?

Just my thoughts

Excellent point. If you spend this much money you need to use all the tools available to learn the right way to operate this aircraft. Unfortunately there is no mandatory process to insure that the pilot knows the safe way to use the machine and yes this forum is the best place to learn. Too bad it's not a must read before flying !

Eduardo · May 22, 2015

The Editor said:
Because the flight controller doesn't know the compass values are wrong for the declination you are flying in!. If you have a skewed calibration due to an influencing factor nearby, once you are clear of that problem (airborne) you have a bad compass calibration for that geographical declination value.
There is nothing else going on - just bad aircraft preparation.

Wouldn't it be safer to manually input or download the area's declination? GPS would tell where you are, and a small database containing the values could be on the app.

That way there would be no interference of nearby objects when calibrating (geographic north pole could be provided by GPS too).

http://maps.ngdc.noaa.gov/viewers/historical_declination/

Ozziepauly · May 22, 2015

The Flight Simulator is useful for many reasons.
It improves your pilot skills in Atti mode and wind speed

Leszek Kedziora · May 22, 2015

Leszek Kedziora said:
I am sure that most flyaways are caused by this:
http://www.phantompilots.com/threads/flyaways-and-btss.30019/#post-275116
Your flyaway resembles mine. Look at the directional antennas on Your photo behind You.
That was my first and last flyaway that thought me how to avoid this horror.
BTW now I switched to Inspire 1.

Eduardo · May 22, 2015

Harry Nicholson said:
"I wish you luck with your floundering belief that DJI are to blame for your mishap."t

NO NO NO! u sell an item, it should work within spec? if u need more skill, one should advise that?aft
i cannot deal with my craft going mental, its not my fault! i do what the manual says?
if i should do more, advise me?

Historically, people who had RC Flying as a hobby were always much more involved on the technical aspect, many building the models just from blueprits.

We are entering an era where manufacturers are aiming at mass consumer market, and many people without all that technical background are buying these quads.

Problem is, the quads like Inspire are fantastic technology, but in my opinion are not there yet (just plug n play), when a compass calibration problem causes such fly away, probably some safeguard should come to action (auto change to ATTI if IMU data and stick positons are opposite?).

Sorry for your scary problem, I think you are right, but the editor is right too. Probably the product marketing made you believe it was more 'bullet proof'.

Ghost_Quad · May 22, 2015

Harry represents the majority of DJI's customers perfectly. The bird said good to go, so he went.

I think DJI has some culpability here for that fact alone and must address that issue immediately, because yes indeed this thing can become a deadly and destructive missile when placed in the hands of the uninitiated. A good first step would be to publish a message (similar but condensed to what TE posted about the pre-flight check earlier in this thread), as soon as the camera function is initiated.

Or would that hurt sales?

Just my $.02

Harry Nicholson · May 22, 2015

come on guys, i respect everthing s

Eduardo said:
Historically, people who had RC Flying as a hobby were always much more involved on the technical aspect, many building the models just from blueprits.

We are entering an era where manufacturers are aiming at mass consumer market, and many people without all that technical background are buying these quads.

Problem is, the quads like Inspire are fantastic technology, but in my opinion are not there yet (just plug n play), when a compass calibration problem causes such fly away, probably some safeguard should come to action (auto change to ATTI if IMU data and stick positons are opposite?).

Sorry for your scary problem, I think you are right, but the editor is right too. Probably the product marketing made you believe it was more 'bullet proof'.

I'm not a experienced pilot however, I need help from the seniors in here, would be greatly appreciated I work as an engineer for Apple and I'm great with computers however, flight I'm not so good
Can a senior pilot please advise me so this never happens again , I have been in touch with DJI Who are very eager to see the flight logs again no disrespect to senior pilots but this has nothing to do with me, or my flight check list

Eduardo · May 22, 2015

Harry Nicholson said:
come on guys, i respect everthing s

I'm not a experienced pilot however, I need help from the seniors in here, would be greatly appreciated I work as an engineer for Apple and I'm great with computers however, flight I'm not so good
Can a senior pilot please advise me so this never happens again , I have been in touch with DJI Who are very eager to see the flight logs again no disrespect to senior pilots but this has nothing to do with me, or my flight check list

You seem to have a cool job, and I think that many of current problems are related to software bugs or even flight control logic.

I'm not that experienced with rc models, but have an aviation background, where when things get weird, you disingage autopilot and fly manually.

It seems to me they are trying to make things too complex too early (too much software and GPS dependency, for example).

As an engineer you are sure aware that's very hard to anticipate all possible combinations of problems to insert safeguards in the code.

They sure want the logs to try and fill another bug hole.

kenny kustom · May 22, 2015

Harry Nicholson said:
I'm not a experienced pilot

So why then, did you take it out of beginner mode??

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Mazz · May 22, 2015

Hello Harry, Sorry to hear about your experience. I hope the flight logs shed some light on the situation. One thing that is not mentioned is that even if it was some of these sensors that DJI did not tell you to check, it is likely you will be covered under warranty. These are things that we check to make sure we do not have an issue and for safety purposes but if and when there is a critical failure, it is often because the machine had an issue and it may be covered. People are just trying to explain to you that it IS on you to check for safety's sake.
Also, you sound like a nice guy, but to continuously say you are not experienced but then follow up with "This is not my fault" is borderline oxymoronic. I am not blaming you in this case, but to say it is definitely not your fault is impossible to determine with the information any of us has. I would phrase it "I am 99.9% sure this could not be my fault."

damoncooper · May 22, 2015

I would say you should probably open a case with DJI anyway

They will likely ask you to submit the flight logs from the back of the aircraft using the USB port located there.

Worst-case scenario is they tell you what you have already been told here. Best case scenario is they discover a bug and we are all saved from the same fate.

diverreb · May 22, 2015

If the app says GPS OK To Fly and the overall status has no warnings, and assuming you didn't calibrate where you shouldn't then these things shouldn't be happening. If the sensors are that far out of calibration that a flyaway is the possible result then DJI should be upgrading the App to indicate that. They have over marketed the ease of use on these things.... New flyers believe the Marketing hype and should't be held responsible for unexplained fly-aways.... I've seen too many of them and some by experienced Pilots, after the latest firmware updates... I wouldn't just dismiss these reports out of hand to bad Calibrations or Sensors out of whack.

sirnikolas · May 22, 2015

The Editor said:
Ok - this thread is rapidly exploding out of hand.
Lets slow down and take a breath.......
This is NOT meant to be patronising in any way so please do not construe it as such.

First of all, I have watched your video now three times and I can say that pretty much without doubt that this was compass calibration related. There is classic TBE going on and the compass is fighting the GPS values causing the circular motions always evident in this type of scenario.
Secondly, everybody should take their time to learn their aircraft and practice good airmanship - these things weigh 3kg and can kill somebody.
There seems to be some incessant need to get airborne as quickly as possible (quick release props, landing position cases etc) - Why? Would everyone be happy if when they went on holiday and were sitting in the Airbus the pilot said "Not going to bother with the pre-flight checks... lets get up there as quickly as possible and have some fun?"
Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY should learn to fly in Atti mode. Systems can fail, GPS can be flakey, compass can have errors so learn to pilot your aircraft in the nearest thing we have to manual on the Inspire which is Atti. Put in stick time where if you have a mishap it doesn't matter (open fields etc) until you are comfortable flying whole packs in Atti. - It would have saved this occurrence from getting as bad as it did.

If ANYTHING doesn't feel right or does not behave they way you expect it to - LAND! Terminate the flight and investigate what is going on.

With regards to IMU and compass calibrations..... I have reiterated many many times on this forum:
YOU DO NOT need to do an IMU calibration every five minutes or days with a 'Y' in them. Do an IMU calibration on a flat, level, vibration free surface (preferably as soon as you fire up the Inspire so the flight controller is still cold). Once calibrated check the values are within spec. THEN LEAVE IT ALONE !!!
I have done 3 IMU calibrations since I got my Inspire, each one has been immediately after updating firmware - that's it.
However, I ALWAYS check my IMU mod values before every single flight. If they are not right I do not take off

Compass calibrations DO NOT need to be done every time you cross the road or change location or sleep overnight in a log cabin or watch the 'X-Factor'
You only need to re-calibrate your compass if:
1. You have traveled a LONG distance (different timezone etc, or thousands of miles) or the app tells you that you have a compass error. (I'll come back to that one)
When you are calibrating your compass you are setting it up for the magnetic declination you are flying in. This does not change dramatically unless you travel a LONG way.
Now, if you drive to a parking lot for example and you decide to fly from there, you have no way of knowing what influences are affecting the compass from buried metal, cars around you, building nearby etc. You may well do a calibration at this spot but the compass is being affected by these unseen influences. Not enough to cause an error, but enough to skew the result away from the true declination value for that location. The compass calibrates and the mod values pull the compass in line with the magic 1400 - 1600 number.
However, when you take off you are then clear of that magnetic influence that caused the skewed value and all that is acting on the compass now is the TRUE magnetic flux for the declination you are located. Only problem is your compass is 'calibrated' from the parking lot where you took off - so it's now wrong!

My advice, for what it's worth:

1. Get to know your Inspire inside out
2. Get very comfortable flying in Atti - Practice regularly.
3. Calibrate your IMU and LEAVE it alone
4. Calibrate your compass well away from ANYTHING that could cause a skewed result. Check your mod values, then move 100ft or so and check them again. If they are the same you probably have a GOOD calibration so LEAVE IT ALONE.
5. ALWAYS check your mod values before every single flight
6. Make yourself a good checklist of items and follow it!
7. If ANYTHING doesn't seem quite right be ready to land immediately/flick to atti.
8. I said I would come back to the 'Compass Error' message. - If you do get this, pick the Inspire up and move it...chances are that error will go away or it is caused by an influence near you.

Sorry for the huge post guys but I hope some of it is helpful.

I will now sit back and wait for the bombs to go off

Beautifully said!
You forgot one thing tho!
Don't drink and fly!

Harry Nicholson · May 22, 2015

I've pulled the landing from Micro SD!

skylabimaging · May 22, 2015

The Editor said:
Ok - this thread is rapidly exploding out of hand.
Lets slow down and take a breath.......
This is NOT meant to be patronising in any way so please do not construe it as such.

First of all, I have watched your video now three times and I can say that pretty much without doubt that this was compass calibration related. There is classic TBE going on and the compass is fighting the GPS values causing the circular motions always evident in this type of scenario.
Secondly, everybody should take their time to learn their aircraft and practice good airmanship - these things weigh 3kg and can kill somebody.
There seems to be some incessant need to get airborne as quickly as possible (quick release props, landing position cases etc) - Why? Would everyone be happy if when they went on holiday and were sitting in the Airbus the pilot said "Not going to bother with the pre-flight checks... lets get up there as quickly as possible and have some fun?"
Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY should learn to fly in Atti mode. Systems can fail, GPS can be flakey, compass can have errors so learn to pilot your aircraft in the nearest thing we have to manual on the Inspire which is Atti. Put in stick time where if you have a mishap it doesn't matter (open fields etc) until you are comfortable flying whole packs in Atti. - It would have saved this occurrence from getting as bad as it did.

If ANYTHING doesn't feel right or does not behave they way you expect it to - LAND! Terminate the flight and investigate what is going on.

With regards to IMU and compass calibrations..... I have reiterated many many times on this forum:
YOU DO NOT need to do an IMU calibration every five minutes or days with a 'Y' in them. Do an IMU calibration on a flat, level, vibration free surface (preferably as soon as you fire up the Inspire so the flight controller is still cold). Once calibrated check the values are within spec. THEN LEAVE IT ALONE !!!
I have done 3 IMU calibrations since I got my Inspire, each one has been immediately after updating firmware - that's it.
However, I ALWAYS check my IMU mod values before every single flight. If they are not right I do not take off

Compass calibrations DO NOT need to be done every time you cross the road or change location or sleep overnight in a log cabin or watch the 'X-Factor'
You only need to re-calibrate your compass if:
1. You have traveled a LONG distance (different timezone etc, or thousands of miles) or the app tells you that you have a compass error. (I'll come back to that one)
When you are calibrating your compass you are setting it up for the magnetic declination you are flying in. This does not change dramatically unless you travel a LONG way.
Now, if you drive to a parking lot for example and you decide to fly from there, you have no way of knowing what influences are affecting the compass from buried metal, cars around you, building nearby etc. You may well do a calibration at this spot but the compass is being affected by these unseen influences. Not enough to cause an error, but enough to skew the result away from the true declination value for that location. The compass calibrates and the mod values pull the compass in line with the magic 1400 - 1600 number.
However, when you take off you are then clear of that magnetic influence that caused the skewed value and all that is acting on the compass now is the TRUE magnetic flux for the declination you are located. Only problem is your compass is 'calibrated' from the parking lot where you took off - so it's now wrong!

My advice, for what it's worth:

1. Get to know your Inspire inside out
2. Get very comfortable flying in Atti - Practice regularly.
3. Calibrate your IMU and LEAVE it alone
4. Calibrate your compass well away from ANYTHING that could cause a skewed result. Check your mod values, then move 100ft or so and check them again. If they are the same you probably have a GOOD calibration so LEAVE IT ALONE.
5. ALWAYS check your mod values before every single flight
6. Make yourself a good checklist of items and follow it!
7. If ANYTHING doesn't seem quite right be ready to land immediately/flick to atti.
8. I said I would come back to the 'Compass Error' message. - If you do get this, pick the Inspire up and move it...chances are that error will go away or it is caused by an influence near you.

Sorry for the huge post guys but I hope some of it is helpful.

I will now sit back and wait for the bombs to go off

This needs to be stickied somewhere for all NEW operators.

And Harry, you should understand that DJI has done all the work for you, they've made the Inspire super easy to fly so guys like you don't have to take much time in the technical aspect of things. If you can't take the 15 seconds to insure that a few numbers are in order than I'm sorry you should probably consider another hobby.

And remember don't fly what you're not willing to lose

LockMD · May 22, 2015

sirnikolas said:
Don't drink and fly!

You're NO fun!!

Epic 2 Mile Fly Away!

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