Flying in NYC

[slim.slamma]

For you hobbyists that fly over the Hudson you might notice on the Ny side helicopter traffic flows north heading uptown. On the Nj side traffic flows south. Never turn your back to traffic. Flying with the flow makes it easy to spot helicopters early. Over the city I haven't figured a pattern for helicopters.

 

[Dave Armbrust]

The airspace for NY is confusing, but much of it is class G at the surface. In some parts of the country class E goes to the surface and is indicated with a dotted magenta line but there are no dotted magenta lines in this area. Around JFK, Laguardia and Newark class B starts at the surface. At Tetetorboro Class D starts at the surface as indicated by the blue dotted line. All other areas class E starts at 700' AGL, below E in these areas you have class G. Class G is significant for Remote Pilots as these are the only areas we are authorized to fly in without ATC authorization.

You will note that around the Hudson River you have solid blue lines that have blue squares as part of the blue line. This marks the Hundson River Exclusion SFRA (Special Flight Rules Area). The SFRA has specific rules regarding direction of travel, altitudes, frequencies and procedures. This requires special training which is available online from faasafety.gov.

I recently went through this training as I did a sightseeing flight with a student in July in a light twin. It was awesome flying around the Statue of Liberty at 300'. The buildings surrounding the Hudson were higher than we were! While flying the Hudson River Exclusion we were down to 300' at times. We did not have to get a clearance or talk to ATC as this is the purpose of the exclusion.

Much of lower Manhattan is class G. While the FAA does allow 107 flights within 400' of a structure you can not go above 700' as you would be in class E airspace. Bellow 700' over the Hudson you are in Class G, but since this is a SFRA you must follow these flight rules which would be impossible to do with a drone. Lots of low level traffic.

With all that said the FAA is not the problem in Manhattan. The real problem is the reckless endangerment laws here. I am not a NY lawyer, so this is where I step aside. If you do fly in Manhattan you probably need a good one.

 

[Dave Armbrust]

For you hobbyists that fly over the Hudson you might notice on the Ny side helicopter traffic flows north heading uptown. On the Nj side traffic flows south. Never turn your back to traffic. Flying with the flow makes it easy to spot helicopters early. Over the city I haven't figured a pattern for helicopters.

Over the City there is no pattern for Helicopters as they are not in the Hudson River Exclusion SFRA. They are in Class E and Class G airspace and do not need to talk to anyone. They only need to worry about other helicopter traffic.

 

[William Gaddy]

Over the City there is no pattern for Helicopters as they are not in the Hudson River Exclusion SFRA. They are in Class E and Class G airspace and do not need to talk to anyone. They only need to worry about other helicopter traffic.

While not required, I think it's optional. I hear helo traffic in that area communicating with JFK and EWR arrival and departure all the time, but it's usually during times when weather conditions dictate that the transatlantic flights are doing a straight-in IFR approach on 22L or 22R to EWR (e.g. not on a left-handed pattern). I've been a passenger and had the opportunity to look out the window on some of those flights (when I'm in the left window side) and the view of Manhattan is completely awesome -- but I can imagine it causes congestion problems. If this tropical storm Hermine parks itself the wrong way in the next couple of days, we might see a lot of this.

 

[slim.slamma]

View attachment 9783

Nice jump seat photo of Liberty.
I'm hoping the ads-b transponders help integrate drones into the national air system and its not just talk. Otherwise with the helicopters and private planes it's a tough job for the FAA to figure out.

 

[William Gaddy]

I think at a minimum, an ADS-B *OUT* mandate would solve a lot of these problems (for commercial drone aircraft)... We just need an option that doesn't weigh two pounds, or require some weird voltage foreign to drone power systems that requires a heavy transformer with a lot of heavy copper winding to power/run. ADS-B. 22V. Low amp draw, and make it a 3NM blinker light too. And I want a Pony.

 

[Dave Armbrust]

I think at a minimum, an ADS-B *OUT* mandate would solve a lot of these problems (for commercial drone aircraft)... We just need an option that doesn't weigh two pounds, or require some weird voltage foreign to drone power systems that requires a heavy transformer with a lot of heavy copper winding to power/run. ADS-B. 22V. Low amp draw, and make it a 3NM blinker light too. And I want a Pony.

William,

Yes, that was my first thoughts as well. What you suggest is well within our technology, and with the quantity of drones out there it would be affordable especially if it was mandated at some future date.

The FAA also consider this, but rejected the idea. The quantity of drones they envision would overwhelm traffic displays with targets that are of no concern. For the most part anything within 400' of the ground is not a concern to manned traffic, unless we are landing or taking off. (It is more of a concern for helicopters.)

Where the technology seems to be going is "sense and avoid". This requires drones to sense other drone and manned aircraft and then automiously take action to avoid the other aircraft. Now, we are truly talking about the leading edge of our technology, far beyond ADS-B out.

I think the pony would be a lot easier.

 

[Quadslo]

Wow, big response to this topic I see that NY has a very complicated airspace.

I see that those shots won't be possible.

What about drone use for the shots which replicate camera crane? Maximum height of the trees? Or just above the water flights not far from the shore? Away from the people and possible privacy issues of course.

 

[William Gaddy]

William,

Yes, that was my first thoughts as well. What you suggest is well within our technology, and with the quantity of drones out there it would be affordable especially if it was mandated at some future date.

The FAA also consider this, but rejected the idea. The quantity of drones they envision would overwhelm traffic displays with targets that are of no concern. For the most part anything within 400' of the ground is not a concern to manned traffic, unless we are landing or taking off. (It is more of a concern for helicopters.)

Where the technology seems to be going is "sense and avoid". This requires drones to sense other drone and manned aircraft and then automiously take action to avoid the other aircraft. Now, we are truly talking about the leading edge of our technology, far beyond ADS-B out.

I think the pony would be a lot easier.

I would bet that the ADS-B Out mandated would only activate when above 400 AGL and/or when within class B,C,D, or E airspace -- this would alleviate the traffic display issue. You're right that the technology already exists, but it's a bit early. A lot of people who are licensed are having issues with the NFZ "feature" of the Inspire, for example. Do you happen to know how and how often they update the map and VFR database for the Inspire GO app? I haven't fully figured that out yet, other than you seem to need a Wifi connection.

 

[Tom in PA]

I've seen some of the most gorgeous drone video on the Internet totally wrecked with the worst choices for the audio track. This is especially true of the Manhattan piece.
As a former pilot (SEL Instrument) I remember that you can fly VFR up and down the Hudson, as long as you have flight following.

 

[William Gaddy]

I've seen some of the most gorgeous drone video on the Internet totally wrecked with the worst choices for the audio track. This is especially true of the Manhattan piece.
As a former pilot (SEL Instrument) I remember that you can fly VFR up and down the Hudson, as long as you have flight following.

Audio is easy to fix, with either the mute button or the volume knob. Fixing bad video or bad flying is more complicated.