I2 hitting 2 miles

[Hawaii Aerial Visions LLC]

All of the above (right and true) arguments aside, I still don't understand the purpose of flying BVLOS just for adrenaline rushing fun. I may, however, understand the urge to fly reasonably further than draconic laws allow in order to - say - take a picture of an landscape at the angle otherwise impossible to manage.

And for this very reason the FAA is considering options to allow this... good point.

 

[Donnie Frank]

lol, I guess some people will just say anything to support their argument. This is so true Cameradroid! If what Donnie said was true, the director and producer wouldn't care less about OSHA laws either.. Here's a pub put out the Film industry that is for the purpose of film makers using drones to follow FAA laws to the letter.

http://film.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/UAS-Use-Requirements.pdf

The document you cited is dated November of 2018. As I stated above, my last film gig was about 18 months ago. Back then we showed up with a binder full of permits on a closed set under the 333. And I'm telling you, we flew beyond VLOS several times. I was camera op, so I left full discretion to my PIC how far he wanted to fly out. I still have the footage.

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

All of the above (right and true) arguments aside, I still don't understand the purpose of flying BVLOS just for adrenaline rushing fun. I may, however, understand the urge to fly reasonably further than draconic laws allow in order to - say - take a picture of an landscape at the angle otherwise impossible to manage.

Mapping large areas has been my main reason for flying beyond VLOS.

D

 

[Akoni]

I myself find it hard to stay in VLOS and this has been problematic, regardless if you are mapping or site surveying, but through the years I’ve learned to combat the regulation concerning BLOS by using multiple VO, and also asking my site safety foreman’s for an extra set of eyes, and all the participants communicates on a radio. (And there are times, I’ve used the site security guards)

 

[Fred Garvin]

......using multiple VO, and also asking my site safety foreman’s for an extra set of eyes, and all the participants communicates on a radio.......

I’ve done this several times.....usually the guys are pretty stoked to be part of the drone operations. I’ve never had any issues with getting a couple onsite helpers to act as VO’s.

 

[Akoni]

I’ve done this several times.....usually the guys are pretty stoked to be part of the drone operations. I’ve never had any issues with getting a couple onsite helpers to act as VO’s.

I let some fly, and they are always eager. I sold my Typhoon H Plus to one of the construction worker, who occasionally helps me out, and on top of that I save money. They work for free

 

[Donnie Frank]

I myself find it hard to stay in VLOS and this has been problematic, regardless if you are mapping or site surveying, but through the years I’ve learned to combat the regulation concerning BLOS by using multiple VO, and also asking my site safety foreman’s for an extra set of eyes, and all the participants communicates on a radio. (And there are times, I’ve used the site security guards)

Map 2,000 acres and get back to me.

D

 

[Akoni]

Map 2,000 acres and get back to me.

D

Mapping 2,000 acre in one take will not be an accurate illustration. Now we all know that tricks are only good for kids.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Mapping 2,000 acre in one take will not be an accurate illustration.

An "accurate illustration" of what? The challenge is easy. Map 2,000 acres and tell me how many volunteers you used to maintain VLOS, how many extra days it took to map trying to organize them all, how many radios you used to stay in contact with them all, and what your final invoice was. My partner and I did 2,000 acres in a week, which includes an hour each way to get there and back.

Now we all know that tricks are only good for kids.

I don't get it. How is this relevant?

D

 

[Akoni]

An "accurate illustration" of what? The challenge is easy. Map 2,000 acres and tell me how many volunteers you used to maintain VLOS, how many extra days it took to map trying to organize them all, how many radios you used to stay in contact with them all, and what your final invoice was. My partner and I did 2,000 acres in a week, which includes an hour each way to get there and back.




I don't get it. How is this relevant?

D

Mapping 2,000 acres in one take.. I will give you a chance to redeem yourself. lol

 

[Akoni]

Bottom line is. Let us commercial operators set an example and promote safety by following the FAA regulations.

 

[Eric Braun]

Re: VLOS...

Look....I hate to rant...but I get so tired of the VLOS stuff.

As a drone professional for over 5 years, I can tell you that almost every facet of drone money making requires flight beyond VLOS. ...

Yep... we do it too but only on closed sets with police present. It doesn't make it right. But, as you say... you'll never work again if you can only fly 1,000 feet.

But don't fool yourself about situational awareness while flying BVLOS. A fixed direction grainy FPV cam view doesn't come close to a swiveling head with two eyeballs connected to a brain sitting in the aircraft. And that is the FAA's concern with BVLOS. As a pilot you are told to scan the sky continuously. You simply can't do that through an FPV cam for so many reasons.

Can you not get a waiver from the FAA when you need to fly beyond VLOS? Just curious.

It is very difficult. I think there are less than 5 entities that have that waiver.

Advisory Circular No. 107-2 paragraph 5.7.2 says, "Although the remote PIC and person manipulating the controls must maintain the capability to see the UA, ...". So flying into BVLOS for the Pilot and/or PIC just because a VO can see it is not allowed.

 

[Donnie Frank]

Mapping 2,000 acres in one take.. I will give you a chance to redeem yourself. lol

Speaking in tongues is a technique used by those who have no argument. Touché. Message received.

D

 

[Donnie Frank]

But don't fool yourself about situational awareness while flying BVLOS.

Hyper aware. Absolutely.

A fixed direction grainy FPV cam view doesn't come close to a swiveling head with two eyeballs connected to a brain sitting in the aircraft. And that is the FAA's concern with BVLOS. As a pilot you are told to scan the sky continuously. You simply can't do that through an FPV cam for so many reasons.

Agreed. But you can bet your bottom dollar a plane or helicopter will never sneak up on us. Now, a bird?? Perhaps. When shooting scenes on winding roads in the woods, my PIC can lose VLOS 400' out. I assume he relies on a combination of telemetry, knowing the environment, and whatever the camera transmits. We have zero wrecks. Zero incidents. This is by design.

It is very difficult. I think there are less than 5 entities that have that waiver.

We haven't done film work in quite a while. Guaranteed, whatever changes have come down the pike, we'll be on top of them. When the entire industry went to RAW, we re-examined the film gigs to see if we wanted to completely re-invest in our gear. With all the mapping, traffic analysis and occasional commercial real estate we do, ultimately the answer was "no." So we bowed out.





Advisory Circular No. 107-2 paragraph 5.7.2 says, "Although the remote PIC and person manipulating the controls must maintain the capability to see the UA, ...". So flying into BVLOS for the Pilot and/or PIC just because a VO can see it is not allowed.
[/QUOTE]

Good point. I guess that refutes Akoni's strategy of simply putting more eyes on the ground.

D

 

[Akoni]

Speaking in tongues is a technique used by those who have no argument. Touché. Message received.

D

In due time, I will introduced myself.

 

[Donnie Frank]

In due time, I will introduced myself.

So you're the world's greatest mapper? And have mapped millions of acres? But you're saving these credentials for just the right moment? LOL...you crack me up, man.

You could be DJI's head engineer or owner of #1 Drone company in Hollywood and I would STILL tell you you're full of s***.

Hopefully, this REALLY puts things into perspective for you.

Keep the mystery coming....LOL.....

Good day, sir.

D

 

[Akoni]

So you're the world's greatest mapper? And have mapped millions of acres? But you're saving these credentials for just the right moment? LOL...you crack me up, man.

You could be DJI's head engineer or owner of #1 Drone company in Hollywood and I would STILL tell you you're full of s***.

Hopefully, this REALLY puts things into perspective for you.

Keep the mystery coming....LOL.....

Good day, sir.

D

Mapping plays a small significant part in what we really do as a drone operator that doc is during geospatial, trench, pipe, as well as foundation layout in which we play a crucial part in aiding the licensed land surveyors and the true mappers in the industry, our maps will never be as accurate without the true lidar payload that is why I questioned your 2,000 acres. I’ve totaled beyond what you have accomplished, but not in one flight. And for my asset management, I am contracted by CEMEX.

I work as sole operator in one of the San Francisco Bay Area’s land development called “The Fields” Currently I’ve decided to stick with two developers Lennar and TrueBeck, but still joins doc. biddings. I have mapped the Mortensen Raiders stadium in Las Vegas, and small mapping contracts for Brookfield during the Brooklyn redevelopment, and Reeves & Young to name a few prominent players. I’ve listed them on my website and will add more. What we do is cool and awesome, but when your hobby becomes your livelihood it becomes a profession, and to that we have to be extra careful, special with drones that has been getting bad press that is why it is important for us so-called commercial operators to adhere to the regulations and promote safe flying.

I am not the head of engineering for DJI and I don’t wish to be, my life took another path, but funny that you brought it up, because I am close friend’s with the head of engineering and production as well as Frank and cater to them when they visit San Francisco. DJI and I had a falling out during the Matrice project, but time heals all. I was took a role during the first phantom project, when it was just a garage childhood dream during it first informal R&D, this was before I joined the service USMC.

Regards,
Akoni

 

[Donnie Frank]

Mapping plays a small significant part in what we really do as a drone operator that doc is during geospatial, trench, pipe, as well as foundation layout in which we play a crucial part in aiding the licensed land surveyors and the true mappers in the industry, our maps will never be as accurate without the true lidar payload that is why I questioned your 2,000 acres.

We employ the use of active GCP's, which collect satellite data over time and then store that data. That data is used to make maps accurate to within 1/10". For the larger jobs, we chose a GSD of 1"/pixel because the bird flies 20+ mph at 300' AGL...which makes for an efficient day. So if you're having accuracy issues with your photogrammetry, I suggest using more GCP's or perhaps the active GCP's we use. All our maps are architectural grade.

All that said, we started using LIDAR about a month ago, but the working speed of 10 mph makes it impractical for larger swaths of land.

I’ve totaled beyond what you have accomplished, but not in one flight.

One flight? LOL...not even close. Dozens of flights over roughly seven non-consecutive days. Here are just a few...

I work as sole operator in one of the San Francisco Bay Area’s land development called “The Fields” Currently I’ve decided to stick with two developers Lennar and TrueBeck, but still joins doc. biddings.

I don't work for developers...at least for mapping. For mapping, I subcontract out to a survey company. When I work for developers, I do construction progress videos...again, subcontracted.

I have mapped the Mortensen Raiders stadium in Las Vegas, and small mapping contracts for Brookfield during the Brooklyn redevelopment, and Reeves & Young to name a few prominent players.

All small plots that can be done in < hour.

I’ve listed them on my website and will add more. What we do is cool and awesome, but when your hobby becomes your livelihood it becomes a profession, and to that we have to be extra careful, special with drones that has been getting bad press that is why it is important for us so-called commercial operators to adhere to the regulations and promote safe flying.

I just quietly do my job and nobody gets hurt. No property gets damaged. The client is happy with my work. I spend more time flying than I do advocating. I'll let the guys with more time than money wave the FAA flags, have meetings, chat with the news, stand on a soapbox, etc. I fly beyond VLOS because I have to.

Notice there are 6 launch points (Base Operations). If I had to fly VLOS, there would be 10x that many launch points. We'd spend more time driving than flying. And note the terrain. There's like 3 roads. Some of these launch points could only be reached via ATV utility vehicle. The lowest to highest points spanned 850' of elevation. In a word, ROUGH terrain.




Here's a mission spreadsheet I made before the client added another 200 acres at the end (change order not listed in spreadsheet).

I am not the head of engineering for DJI and I don’t wish to be, my life took another path, but funny that you brought it up, because I am close friend’s with the head of engineering and production as well as Frank and cater to them when they visit San Francisco.

Then for the love of all that is holy, either tell him to share some **** data with their "support" staff or start a enterprise support division for those of us power users who have questions that go beyond "How do I stop the props????" SOME of us get under the hood of these things. Not all of us are slaves to DJI's "policies" and limitations. Some of us have to make a living and can't login to take a test or agree to an updated EULA every time we go out on site. A little information from DJI would save a LOT of hacking.

And give him Kudos for the government versions of their software. It's a START. Looks like DJI finally woke the f*** up and realized that all this micro-management was hurting their bottom line. They basically made my hacked versions of their software available to government entities.

this was before I joined the service USMC.

Thank you for your service.

 

[Akoni]

We employ the use of active GCP's, which collect satellite data over time and then store that data. That data is used to make maps accurate to within 1/10". For the larger jobs, we chose a GSD of 1"/pixel because the bird flies 20+ mph at 300' AGL...which makes for an efficient day. So if you're having accuracy issues with your photogrammetry, I suggest using more GCP's or perhaps the active GCP's we use. All our maps are architectural grade.

All that said, we started using LIDAR about a month ago, but the working speed of 10 mph makes it impractical for larger swaths of land.

View attachment 25912






One flight? LOL...not even close. Dozens of flights over roughly seven non-consecutive days. Here are just a few...

View attachment 25916






I don't work for developers...at least for mapping. For mapping, I subcontract out to a survey company. When I work for developers, I do construction progress videos...again, subcontracted.





All small plots that can be done in < hour.




I just quietly do my job and nobody gets hurt. No property gets damaged. The client is happy with my work. I spend more time flying than I do advocating. I'll let the guys with more time than money wave the FAA flags, have meetings, chat with the news, stand on a soapbox, etc. I fly beyond VLOS because I have to.

Notice there are 6 launch points (Base Operations). If I had to fly VLOS, there would be 10x that many launch points. We'd spend more time driving than flying. And note the terrain. There's like 3 roads. Some of these launch points could only be reached via ATV utility vehicle. The lowest to highest points spanned 850' of elevation. In a word, ROUGH terrain.

View attachment 25913


Here's a mission spreadsheet I made before the client added another 200 acres at the end (change order not listed in spreadsheet).

View attachment 25915



Then for the love of all that is holy, either tell him to share some **** data with their "support" staff or start a enterprise support division for those of us power users who have questions that go beyond "How do I stop the props????" SOME of us get under the hood of these things. Not all of us are slaves to DJI's "policies" and limitations. Some of us have to make a living and can't login to take a test or agree to an updated EULA every time we go out on site. A little information from DJI would save a LOT of hacking.

And give him Kudos for the government versions of their software. It's a START. Looks like DJI finally woke the f*** up and realized that all this micro-management was hurting their bottom line. They basically made my hacked versions of their software available to government entities.





Thank you for your service.

Hello Donnie,

Sorry for the late reply... Nice M600 setup! How are you finding the hacked version? is it dependable?

 

[Donnie Frank]

Hello Donnie,

Sorry for the late reply... Nice M600 setup! How are you finding the hacked version? is it dependable?

The entire reason for the hacks are dependability. Unfortunately, one has to use legacy everything. I'm discovering that Gen 3 iPads are more pain than they're worth. I can hack them, but I have to be diligent regarding WiFi connection. With gen 2 iPads running iOS 12.1.xx or earlier, I can use legacy iTunes v12.5.4.42 to install legacy apps like Go 3.1.1 and Go-4 v4.0.8. I also use legacy firmware in all my birds sans the M600, which has the latest firmware. Ironically, it's the only bird with issues. For whatever reason, it's geofenced if I use Go-4, so I just don't use Go-4. I'm just too lazy to hack yet another DJI offering. For that bird I use Autopilot v3.15 pretty much 100% of the time. So I don't care that Go-4 has put some kind of weird geofence on it.

D