Ops Manual for PFAW - DJI machines

[time flize]

Folks - assistance required!

Im currently attempting to create an Ops Manual from a template supplied - but - there are questions asked to which I cannot locate an answer specific to both the DJI Phantom 2V+ and the Inspire 1 .....

For the life of me, I cannot locate any data telling me what the official operational ceiling is for the Phantom 2V+ - nothing stated in the aircraft specs .. and neither can I discover the maximum wind speed (including gusts) for that aircraft..... and .. I cannot locate the Broadcast Frequency Signal Strength for either aircraft expressed as GHz @ mW - I'm aware that both aircraft operate on the 5.725-5.825 GHz and 2.4 - 2.483 GHz frequencies, but the expression '@mW' has thrown me completely!

Undoubtedly, someone here from the UK will have an Ops Manual for one or both aircraft - can I ask please for someone to advise?

Many thanks
Mick

 

[The Editor]

Folks - assistance required!

Im currently attempting to create an Ops Manual from a template supplied - but - there are questions asked to which I cannot locate an answer specific to both the DJI Phantom 2V+ and the Inspire 1 .....

For the life of me, I cannot locate any data telling me what the official operational ceiling is for the Phantom 2V+ - nothing stated in the aircraft specs .. and neither can I discover the maximum wind speed (including gusts) for that aircraft..... and .. I cannot locate the Broadcast Frequency Signal Strength for either aircraft expressed as GHz @ mW - I'm aware that both aircraft operate on the 5.725-5.825 GHz and 2.4 - 2.483 GHz frequencies, but the expression '@mW' has thrown me completely!

Undoubtedly, someone here from the UK will have an Ops Manual for one or both aircraft - can I ask please for someone to advise?

Many thanks
Mick

Tim,
For your ops manual it is not a case of the aircraft's operational ceiling but rather YOURS as a RPA company.
The Inspire can operate up to 4500 meters asl but that would not be YOUR operational ceiling. For that, and assuming UK only operations you would take the heighest point in the UK (Ben Nevis) and then add 400ft. You would not be allowed to operate higher than that with standard exemptions/PFAW from CAA.
With regards to control frequency, ignore 5.8ghz as this has nothing to do with control or telemetry (for the Inspire).
Your control frequency is 2.4ghz at 100mW EIRP (Effective Isotropic Radiated Power), which is the legal maximum in the UK.
Additionally, with regards to operational wind speed, this is not the maximum the aircraft will fly in but rather the maximum YOU would be comfortable flying a mission/job in. You must be comfortable that any number you quote you will be happy to fly in atti mode at that wind speed since a proportion of your flight assessment will be in atti.
Hope that helps.

 

[time flize]

Tim,
For your ops manual it is not a case of the aircraft's operational ceiling but rather YOURS as a RPA company.
The Inspire can operate up to 4500 meters asl but that would not be YOUR operational ceiling. For that, and assuming UK only operations you would take the heighest point in the UK (Ben Nevis) and then add 400ft. You would not be allowed to operate higher than that with standard exemptions/PFAW from CAA.
With regards to control frequency, ignore 5.8ghz as this has nothing to do with control or telemetry (for the Inspire).
Your control frequency is 2.4ghz at 100mW EIRP (Effective Isotropic Radiated Power), which is the legal maximum in the UK.
Additionally, with regards to operational wind speed, this is not the maximum the aircraft will fly in but rather the maximum YOU would be comfortable flying a mission/job in. You must be comfortable that any number you quote you will be happy to fly in atti mode at that wind speed since a proportion of your flight assessment will be in atti.
Hope that helps.

Many thanks for the really helpful reply - and much appreciated.

I don't suppose there is a UK CAA compliant flier of the Inspire or Phantom 2 V+ here that would be willing to share their approved Ops Manual with me in strict confidence is there?
There are a couple of areas of the manual that I am struggling with such as 'types of operations'.
Whilst I can foresee the obvious areas of engagement I would seek to achieve operationally, I have no crystal ball to consult that can tell me what requests are going to come my way - really, what i'm asking for is examples of how others have couched the language to account for the unknown!

Thanks again

Mick
(I know my name appears as Tim, but that's a typo on my part - I registered on the site as Tim Flize as opposed to Time Flize - my company name! - I have asked to have it changed but as of yet, no reply)

 

[The Editor]

Many thanks for the really helpful reply - and much appreciated.

I don't suppose there is a UK CAA compliant flier of the Inspire or Phantom 2 V+ here that would be willing to share their approved Ops Manual with me in strict confidence is there?
There are a couple of areas of the manual that I am struggling with such as 'types of operations'.
Whilst I can foresee the obvious areas of engagement I would seek to achieve operationally, I have no crystal ball to consult that can tell me what requests are going to come my way - really, what i'm asking for is examples of how others have couched the language to account for the unknown!

Thanks again

Mick
(I know my name appears as Tim, but that's a typo on my part - I registered on the site as Tim Flize as opposed to Time Flize - my company name! - I have asked to have it changed but as of yet, no reply)

Hi Mick
I'm afraid that most of us who have PFAW guard our ops manual like Fort Knox . It's something that you should have authored and understand yourself rather than use bits and pieces from other people's manuals which may or may not be pertinent. That's not meant to be a sarcastic comment, rather than just constructive.
For example, if I had just given you a height for your operational ceiling, some individuals would just have filled that in but not understand the reasoning behind it which is the important part. .
I will always help as much as I can without writing an ops manual for you (if you know what I mean).
I am out at the moment but will come back to you later or tomorrow with some more info.

Who did you contact to get your user name changed? PM Jacob and he will sort it for you.

Cheers

 

[time flize]

Hi Mick
I'm afraid that most of us who have PFAW guard our ops manual like Fort Knox . It's something that you should have authored and understand yourself rather than use bits and pieces from other people's manuals which may or may not be pertinent. That's not meant to be a sarcastic comment, rather than just constructive.
For example, if I had just given you a height for your operational ceiling, some individuals would just have filled that in but not understand the reasoning behind it which is the important part. .
I will always help as much as I can without writing an ops manual for you (if you know what I mean).
I am out at the moment but will come back to you later or tomorrow with some more info.

Who did you contact to get your user name changed? PM Jacob and he will sort it for you.

Cheers

Thanks again - I'm learning!
I fully understand the need for Ops Manuals to be treated as something 'personal' and kept secure - for commercial reasons as opposed to anything else - however, it was the language in creating it that I was struggling with .....
I have a template from EURO-USC that virtually writes it for me in truth, but (for instance) when it came to writing the 'Types of Operations', I found myself virtually rewriting 'War and Peace' until it dawned on me that all I really needed was VLOS Photography and VLOS Videography - which basically covers everything.

The only remaining elements I am now struggling with are the Aircraft Technical Specifications - for both the Vision + and Inspire - though there is much more info in the downloaded spec sheet for the latter - I don't really know if much of the template is relevant or if the CAA really need that level of info for my type of aircraft - such as:

Motor KV

GPS Unit

GPS Unit Serial Number

Inertial Measuring Unit

IMU Serial Number

Ground Station Type

Ground Station Make and Model

Ground Station Serial Number

Ground Station Software

Firmware / Software Version

Ground Station Link Make and Model

Ground Station Control Frequency

Telemetry Link Make and Model

Telemetry Link Frequency and Power

Payload Link Make and Model

Payload Link Frequency and Power


....so I'm guessing most of the above is irrelevant to my DJI Phantom 2 V+ or Inspire 1 as it's all 'integral' so to speak?

Not so much looking for answers specifically - just guidance from those that know from their own experience.

(Have PM'd Joseph - thanks for the info)

Mick

 

[Scotflieger]

Thanks again - I'm learning!
I fully understand the need for Ops Manuals to be treated as something 'personal' and kept secure - for commercial reasons as opposed to anything else - however, it was the language in creating it that I was struggling with .....
I have a template from EURO-USC that virtually writes it for me in truth, but (for instance) when it came to writing the 'Types of Operations', I found myself virtually rewriting 'War and Peace' until it dawned on me that all I really needed was VLOS Photography and VLOS Videography - which basically covers everything.

The only remaining elements I am now struggling with are the Aircraft Technical Specifications - for both the Vision + and Inspire - though there is much more info in the downloaded spec sheet for the latter - I don't really know if much of the template is relevant or if the CAA really need that level of info for my type of aircraft - such as:

Motor KV

GPS Unit

GPS Unit Serial Number

Inertial Measuring Unit

IMU Serial Number

Ground Station Type

Ground Station Make and Model

Ground Station Serial Number

Ground Station Software

Firmware / Software Version

Ground Station Link Make and Model

Ground Station Control Frequency

Telemetry Link Make and Model

Telemetry Link Frequency and Power

Payload Link Make and Model

Payload Link Frequency and Power


....so I'm guessing most of the above is irrelevant to my DJI Phantom 2 V+ or Inspire 1 as it's all 'integral' so to speak?

Not so much looking for answers specifically - just guidance from those that know from their own experience.

(Have PM'd Joseph - thanks for the info)

Mick

Hi Mick

All Editor's comments should be taken on board. You will find discussed on these forums the fact that EURO-USC tend to over do things. The info you list is primarily for 'self-built' RPAs where you would have the various component types and serial numbers.

Your DJI aircraft are ready-to-fly with no access to many components without voiding the warranty. In my UAS OSC I simply stated this fact where required - Widget = DJI supplied - serial no not known. You can only list that info, data or serial numbers you can identify. If it is not published, don't make it up. What you need to list is frequencies and power outputs.

 

[time flize]

Hi Mick

All Editor's comments should be taken on board. You will find discussed on these forums the fact that EURO-USC tend to over do things. The info you list is primarily for 'self-built' RPAs where you would have the various component types and serial numbers.

Your DJI aircraft are ready-to-fly with no access to many components without voiding the warranty. In my UAS OSC I simply stated this fact where required - Widget = DJI supplied - serial no not known. You can only list that info, data or serial numbers you can identify. If it is not published, don't make it up. What you need to list is frequencies and power outputs.

Scotflieger
That's the perfect answer - many thanks.
I wouldn't have 'made anything up' as clearly it'd have been challenged - the fact that I cannot obtain most of the detail and can openly state that fact is the answer to my problem

Grateful to you and Editor's assistance.
Many thanks
Mick

 

[time flize]

Folks - sorry - me again - and I'm stuck.

I've got my head around most of (the vast majority of) my Ops Manual - but there are some technical questions I cannot answerer that would be common to all who create such a manual fro the Phantom 2V+ and the Inspire 1.......

I need to state (apparently) the telemetry link make, model, frequency & power output for the 'ground station' for both aircraft as well as whether they are 'active' or passive - and to boot, the control output expressed as Mw (which I had previously expressed as dBm). ..... and then the same again for the ground station.

I grew up in the world of BBC Acorn and B&W TV's with valves! Please excuse my ignorance!!

Mick

 

[Scotflieger]

Folks - sorry - me again - and I'm stuck.

I've got my head around most of (the vast majority of) my Ops Manual - but there are some technical questions I cannot answerer that would be common to all who create such a manual fro the Phantom 2V+ and the Inspire 1.......

I need to state (apparently) the telemetry link make, model, frequency & power output for the 'ground station' for both aircraft as well as whether they are 'active' or passive - and to boot, the control output expressed as Mw (which I had previously expressed as dBm). ..... and then the same again for the ground station.

I grew up in the world of BBC Acorn and B&W TV's with valves! Please excuse my ignorance!!

Mick

Because both RPAs are ready-to-fly not all the information you are seeking is available. Rather than telemetry, I would use the term Command and Control (C2) and it is active. For the Inspire 1 you should state the make is DJI, model is DJI/unknown, the freq is 2.400 to 2.483?? GHz (see spec) and power is 100mW. The GS is your DJI Controller R1.

 

[time flize]

Because both RPAs are ready-to-fly not all the information you are seeking is available. Rather than telemetry, I would use the term Command and Control (C2) and it is active. For the Inspire 1 you should state the make is DJI, model is DJI/unknown, the freq is 2.400 to 2.483?? GHz (see spec) and power is 100mW. The GS is your DJI Controller R1.

As before - really grateful - many thanks.
So much of the tech detail required is either incomprehensible (for someone like me at least) or seems, frankly, irrelevant - but as always, help is at hand via the forum

Thanks again
Mick

 

[Jonnyboyb]

As before - really grateful - many thanks.
So much of the tech detail required is either incomprehensible (for someone like me at least) or seems, frankly, irrelevant - but as always, help is at hand via the forum

Thanks again
Mick

Hi Mick. I've just read your thread. Very interesting, seems we are going through the same things for the inspire 1 manual with EURO USC! I've had the same feedback from my ops manual. HAve you heard back yet after corrections? The Inspire is an off the shelf model, so yes completing items such as "make and model of telementary system" is tricky!

 

[Richard Hurst]

I was thinking about doing my PFAW but this sounds like rocket science and degree level physics to me, not sure I'd manage all this. Lol

 

[time flize]

Euro-USC were helpful and made suggestions as to how to correct some of my 'errors' - and DJI themselves also assisted. It was a bit of a struggle for someone like me who, shall we say, didn't excel in the academic fields in my youth!
I haven't yet submitted it to the CAA for the PFAW as I still await my flight test with the BMFA - and having lost my Inspire to a fly away (badly damaged), I now await a replacement to fly with.