avoidance system for drone integration and blos flights (idea)

[turbodronepilot]

Hey guys ..
I thought I would share an idea I had one night after a few beers..
with all the debate about the safety concerns about blos flying I had an idea ..
What if all drone operators who lived in a conjested area ,or for delivery drones of the future, and guys like me who want to fly blos had a way of knowing what was flying around you and how far and how fast it was moving with depth perception ?
Sound interesting? ?
Well amagine a 3d grid shaped like a tic tack toe game with levels..
on those levels would be different flying directions,like highways in the sky, with distance telemetry to a nearby aircraft. .
How it would work is with a identification beacon on board that would transmit a signal to a monitor. . In the monitor or goggles you would see the virtual highway and all the air traffic. .
Then software to process all the data to be displayed on screen. .
so any drone could use the technology and we all could fly safety together at any range..
this is just a rough explanation of my idea in its infint stages. .
I don't have the technical ability to rite code or make hardware or the resources to make it a reality. .but I encourage anyone who has these resources and abilities to go for it and raise the level of the sport,profession, or hobby whatever drones are to you..
Maybe someone is already making something like this and that would be great or it already exists. .
you never know so the seed has been planted..
will it grow into something cool?? I hope so..
turbo. .

 

[mdomeny]

nice thought. i'll pm you later.

 

[crashburn]

Turbo, good ideas, way over my head though, guess I need a few beers too! Here's something I read about, Operation Breadcrumb, that the faa seems interested in, though not as good as yours
http://www.inspirepilots.com/index.php?posts/17880
And NASA
http://www.popsci.com/nasa-testing-companys-air-traffic-control-drones?gMqBjck5Q0rGQwcg.03

I like your idea better, let us monitor ourselves instead of the gov
Enjoy life and be nice

 

[Kilrah]

There are already many people working on that approach. The big problem is that something like this needs to be harmonized/standardized worldwide between all avionics manufacturers and governments to work, for authorities to accept it as the critical safety device it is it will have to be designed and manufactured to commercial aviation standards, and last but not least every aircraft (or at least a significant majority) will have to be equipped.

So while a team of good EEs could probably design and build the desired functionality in a few months on an arduino board it's something that will take about 5 years for a group of industry leaders to decide to work on and settle on a standard, then another 3 years to design and build, and you'll end up with a $10k rack-mounted brick that weighs 2kg designed to put in a full-scale aircraft. It will then take another 5-10 years until someone can licence/manufacture the technology at a price/scale needed for use on the kind of machines we have while maintaining regulatory approval. Then add another 5-10 years until enough people are equipped.
Everyting in certified aviation is extremely slow and expensive. Even things that are rather simple like Mode S transponders recently needed a good 10 years to reach enough market penetration to become useful even after development and when it was just a drop-in replacement for something that already existed but with a few more features.

It will come, but see you in 20 years

 

[crashburn]

There are already many people working on that approach. The big problem is that something like this needs to be harmonized/standardized worldwide between all avionics manufacturers and governments to work, for authorities to accept it as the critical safety device it is it will have to be designed and manufactured to commercial aviation standards, and last but not least every aircraft (or at least a significant majority) will have to be equipped.

So while a team of good EEs could probably design and build the desired functionality in a few months on an arduino board it's something that will take about 5 years for a group of industry leaders to decide to work on and settle on a standard, then another 3 years to design and build, and you'll end up with a $10k rack-mounted brick that weighs 2kg designed to put in a full-scale aircraft. It will then take another 5-10 years until someone can licence/manufacture the technology at a price/scale needed for use on the kind of machines we have while maintaining regulatory approval. Then add another 5-10 years until enough people are equipped.
Everyting in certified aviation is extremely slow and expensive. Even things that are rather simple like Mode S transponders recently needed a good 10 years to reach enough market penetration to become useful even after development and when it was just a drop-in replacement for something that already existed but with a few more features.

It will come, but see you in 20 years

Sad but true. I remember, in the early 70s before I changed professions, having several key punch machines in a big room and having to wait several days to get a printout from that big mainframe in another big room, before beginning another tedious debugging process, then having to key punch cards and resubmit them again, over and over, for several weeks sometimes, just to get a simple program to work. Now my phone is more powerful. Hopefully the private sector can develop the software and hardware, because the gov will take 20 years.

 

[Eagleview Drones]

Hey guys ..
I thought I would share an idea I had one night after a few beers..
with all the debate about the safety concerns about blos flying I had an idea ..
What if all drone operators who lived in a conjested area ,or for delivery drones of the future, and guys like me who want to fly blos had a way of knowing what was flying around you and how far and how fast it was moving with depth perception ?
Sound interesting? ?
Well amagine a 3d grid shaped like a tic tack toe game with levels..
on those levels would be different flying directions,like highways in the sky, with distance telemetry to a nearby aircraft. .
How it would work is with a identification beacon on board that would transmit a signal to a monitor. . In the monitor or goggles you would see the virtual highway and all the air traffic. .
Then software to process all the data to be displayed on screen. .
so any drone could use the technology and we all could fly safety together at any range..
this is just a rough explanation of my idea in its infint stages. .
I don't have the technical ability to rite code or make hardware or the resources to make it a reality. .but I encourage anyone who has these resources and abilities to go for it and raise the level of the sport,profession, or hobby whatever drones are to you..
Maybe someone is already making something like this and that would be great or it already exists. .
you never know so the seed has been planted..
will it grow into something cool?? I hope so..
turbo. .

What you are describing is what is already in place for airliners. It's called TCAS. Traffic Alert/Collision Avoidance System. The system uses the aircraft radar to detect other traffic. If any of that traffic is on a potential collision course the systems decide for themselves what evasive action each pilot should take. One pilots aircraft will tell him to climb, while the other will say to descend, etc. I think that someday we will have a miniaturized version of this system, but for now the weight and power requirements are too high.

 

[PetePerrim]

Yea

What you are describing is what is already in place for airliners. It's called TCAS. Traffic Alert/Collision Avoidance System. The system uses the aircraft radar to detect other traffic. If any of that traffic is on a potential collision course the systems decide for themselves what evasive action each pilot should take. One pilots aircraft will tell him to climb, while the other will say to descend, etc. I think that someday we will have a miniaturized version of this system, but for now the weight and power requirements are too high.

Yeah, I was going to say that this system already exists. TCAS and transponders in aircraft already prevent them from hitting each other (usually) so a miniaturised version that perhaps warns both pilots if two drones come within a certain distance of each other would be great. IF each drone had a 2 metre 'bubble' around it then all they would need to do would be a self managed avoidance, the operator wouldn't even need to know that the system had avoided a collision.

 

[Kilrah]

Yeah. My point is that even if this technology has existed for more than 15 years now it still isn't trusted to do anything automatically i.e. all it does it tell the pilot what to do, it isn't integrated to the autopilot systems to actually trigger an action. And since it was put in place there have been several accidents where pilots have misunderstood or ignored the instructions...
That tells you a bit about the speed at which developments go in the field even when billions are available to do something AND lives are directly at stake...

 

[turbodronepilot]

The system would be designed to work within the range of your aircraft or just beyond. .
in that graph you would see a 3d image of what's flying in your area..
this system would be universal for anyone who wanted to fly blos for whatever reason. .
Just a transmitter on your controller and a beacon or transmitter on the craft and monitor or goggles. .
I think goggles would be the preferred monitor. .
distance and speed data could be displayed in different colors to inform the operator the closing speed and distance. .
I don't believe this technology is 20 years down the road..
I believe we will see it within 5..
although like I said I'm not that technical,but when I see what an inspire or phantom can do I'm sure it's not far off..
also my point is that there are ways to fly blos safety and that we should keep the option for blos open until we can integrate it in the airspace safely..
turbo. .

 

[gogowanda]

It won't take 20 years folks. It'll happen very soon. The future of drones will heavily depend on traffic separation. FAA is requiring all aircraft to be equipped with ADS-B transponder by 2020.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_–_broadcast

it's a tracking device pretty much. If you buy one of those Stratus ADS-B receiver for iPad and subscribe to Foreflight app you will see all air traffic within the vicinity. I can imagine there are companies who is developing a cloud based avoidance system that will be mandatory for commercial drone operators to adapt within a year or two, where they will limit the drone's altitude based on traffic.

How do I know? I fly a little airplane too

 

[Eagleview Drones]

I can agree with both of the above statements, but for us right now I believe the limiting factor is battery power, not the miniaturization of the required equipment. There are already plenty of videos online from various private companies and universities showing small drones flying in "swarms" and avoiding not only each other, but fixed obstacles also. Popular Science magazine last year ran a story about a potential breakthrough in lithium ion batteries that promised to increase the energy density by a factor of 5. That would allow us to fly nearly an hour! I'm sure it's coming, and I don't think it will take too many years.

 

[Kilrah]

I have strong doubts about that too... for the very simple reason that I have read similar articles regularly for the past 10 years or so. Better batteries are something that the entire world wants for just about every imaginable application, anybody who finds something even just 50% better is guaranteed to make a fortune, yet... nothing.

 

[DaBone]

Some news... from Sweden.

 

[turbodronepilot]

Some news... from Sweden.

Would you mind translating that to English ??
My Swedish is a little rusty..
Thanks !!
Turbo...

 

[DaBone]

Should come up in english after a little while...

Used Bing translate in the link..

 

[turbodronepilot]

Should come up in english after a little while...

Used Bing translate in the link..

OK ..got it..just took a second..
Interesting..
Looks like its designed for drones to use the same airspace as airplanes..
That's great for the guys who want to fly high..
I was thinking of a system that was designed to work under 400 ft..for small aircraft.
That was a pretty cool looking drone..lol..
Thanks for posting the link.. I appreciate it!!

Turbo..

 

[Eagleview Drones]

I have strong doubts about that too... for the very simple reason that I have read similar articles regularly for the past 10 years or so. Better batteries are something that the entire world wants for just about every imaginable application, anybody who finds something even just 50% better is guaranteed to make a fortune, yet... nothing.

But if you look back 10 years, pretty much all that was available was NiCad batteries with all their problems (memory). Look how far battery technology has come in just 10 years. Not to mention Tesla and Nissan Leaf cars. I think that within the next 10 years we will see similar progress. Maybe battery improvement will be the new Moore's Law.

 

[CaptainBadge]

www.skyward.io looks like these guys have it in the works. Check out their Urban Skyways project.

 

[Kilrah]

But if you look back 10 years, pretty much all that was available was NiCad batteries with all their problems (memory). Look how far battery technology has come in just 10 years.

Uh no, time may have gone faster than you think. 10 years ago Li-Po was already common and affordable in RC, and common devices like laptops and mobile phones started using them in the end of the 90s i.e. more than 15 years ago, and there hasn't been much progress since (yes marginal improvements in energy density and power density, but no breakthrough).
Before that NiMH had its period of glory, "when all that was available was NiCad" is more like 25 years ago.

 

[turbodronepilot]

Hey guys a buddy sent me this article..
Check it out!! Pretty interesting..
http://flip.it/yOoCs