Cinema DNG vs. Pro Res

[Barry Goyette]

I would say, the only way the x5s out-performs an Alexa would be in that it can be hung from a 7 pound aircraft. Frankly, Sebastian from C5d isn't always the most objective guy when it comes to camera reviews, with most boiling down to "almost as good as an Arri, or not as good as an Arri"..even while he tends to cherry pick specs based on whatever angle he's promoting. The x5s belongs in a class of cameras that include the Gh4 and Gh5 (both of which have higher resolution than an Alexa or Mini), and anyone claiming that they outperform or even equal an alexa, or any of the other professional class cameras in it's range, simply doesn't know what they are talking about.

I think the X5s is a terrific camera for what it is. But we really shouldn't be calling it what it isn't.

 

[NanoPixel]

The software we are using for offload and for archiving of CinemaDNG footage (www.slimraw.com) has multiple compression levels, but the higher levels are only compatible with Resolve. We use it for offload to our storage anytime we work with CinemaDNG (except the X5R, which needs to be offloaded through DJI's software; for this we did an additional Slimraw pass). It does the compression while offloading and is very fast, I suspect faster than straight copy. For Premiere we usually used the 10-bit log setting which would reduce the files around 30% and fix the magenta issues. Now with Resolve we can also use all the other options, which are really handy. Much smaller files and works beautifully inside Resolve. There is also an option to produce half resolution CinemaDNG proxies, which I haven't tested yet but sounds interesting for when processing power is inadequate.

How much time does this save you?

 

[erasmus]

Well yes you are correct. I guess I should have said "In some cases" but not completely out performs. I just switched to Resove as well from Speed Grade. Are you using the I2 for film making? The point of the post was to give people something to think about if they planned on upgrading or buying an I2 and didn't know what to get. I think it would be wise to figure out how you plan on using the drone especially if money is an issue. I think that if you are just starting out or you are just doing Real Estate or making You Tube video's, you can get away with just getting the Pro Res for now. I would love to have Cinema DNG and plan on getting it in the future, but after dropping $7k it wasn't high on the priority list.

Yes, different uses - different priorities. Price is a perfectly valid reason to get one or the other. We'll likely be renting first. Playing with samples for now.

How much time does this save you?

Never done a proper comparison. But it is really about the storage space saved first and foremost.

 

[AMGPilot]

Is the camera good? yes. Outperform an alexa? No not even close

 

[Katarinaconnors]

So I am new to the forum and I thought I would share a post I created on the DJI forum about Cinema DNG vs Apple Pro Res. I am a former Marine and I like to keep this simple and to the point. When I was doing research into buying the I2 I found out that I only needed Apple Pro Res. Depending on how you plan to use your I2 this will help you decide if purchasing both is what you really need.

Cinema DNG
Pro's:

• Gives you the most control over color and formats for professional film making and live stream broadcasting.

• It out performs the ARRI Alexa mini which is regarded as the best professional film making camera on the market. It cost $36,ooo for just the body!

• Cinema DNG at 5.2k also out performs Black Magic URSA and the Sony AS7II in 4k UHD

Cons:

• File sizes are massive and require a ton of storage

• You will need a beast of a machine to handle these files and render these comps within your lifetime. Adding After Effects and music to the mix will only add to your misery .

• The files also have to be color graded as they are in RAW format and transcoded into an NLE that will accept the files.

• Increases your workflow time substantially

• If you are not in Film or creating projects worthy of this amount of effort there is no need for it.

• $1000 extra

Apple Pro Res
Pros:

• Shoots in 5.2k res, 4K UHD with the 422 HQ and 4444XQ codec. This is pretty much the current pro industry standard.

• Smaller file sizes

• Easier to work with

• 4444XQ Quality is very close to Cinema DNG and can match it with the right LUTS

• $500 vs. the $36,000 for the ARRI Alexa mini that shoots the same exact codec

Cons:

• Not Raw - Does not have as much control when color grading

• Does not have as many frame rate options as Cinema DNG

So the point is, if you are not planning on making Hollywood grade films why spend the extra $1000? Apple Pro Res is already the current pro industry standard. No one even has a 5k TV and YouTube will downgrade your files even further. DJI has given us an amazing product that rivals and in some cases out performs the most expensive camera on the market. Most people will only be using this to create YouTube, Real Estate, site inspection videos and 3 D models. ( This is also assuming you bought the X5S)

If you have the money to burn then by all means get both. Honestly I would rather take that $1000 and buy an extra remote and an iPad mini 4 or a few more batteries. If cost reduction is part of the equation like it was for me then Apple Pro Res is the way to go if you must have one or the other.

Check out this I2 review from Cinema 5D and look at the comparisons for yourself. Hope this helps!

Well off on one fact, you do not have to transcode when inputting raw files in NLE but you will when exporting the end product. Imho, although i love the Inspires if you are shooting Hollywood grade then the quad platform has no redundancy. You are better off with a m600 and the same camera under it that you are shooting the rest of you footage on. You can buy a used RED and m600 for about the same money and overal have better equipment. Plus ground equip..
I agree raw is a pain and most people who try it quickly shy away. I have a monster Mac Pro 12 core with banks of drives and it is ridiculous! If you are shooting for You Tube just buy a phantom and a Sony AX33 and call it a day.

 

[Katarinaconnors]

Ps. Ask yourself how DJI is selling dng raw for $1000 to start with??? Makes as much sense as buying bottled water .....

 

[srandall25]

Other CON's to the ProRes format from my point of view:

• 10-bit vs. 12-bit CDNG (up to 3840x2160 at 50FPS (47.952fps), 4096x2160 at 50FPS (47.952fps), and 5280x2972 at 30FPS (29.97fps)
• Even ProRes 4444 seems to only be 10-bit so the only upside to using this vs. 422 is 4.4.4 chroma but at a the expense of a much larger filesize
• ProRes files gets cut up to 4GB chunks (at least that's what I get)
• The ProRes 5.2k is widescreen aspect only, and not full 16:9 5280x2972 like in DNG.
  
• Max res for ProRes is 5280x2160, which is ok, but that's a 2.4:1 widescreen style aspect

So unless DJI makes ProRes 5.2k 12-bit (at slower fps), allows files larger than 4GB (formatting of card?) I'm sticking with 5.2K CDNG which works flawlessly in DaVinci for me (as optimized media).

May I ask what kind of system with specs you're using to process the 5K CDNG videos?

 

[Katarinaconnors]

Hardware is Mac "trash can" Pro that i have updated with a major investment in Intel Xeon cores, lol. 64Gb ram ... stacks of SSDs, thunderbolt, i use Devinci 12.5 pay version Mostly. Does good but 60 fps can get a bit rough.

 

[srandall25]

Do you think the new 2017 iMac to be released this year will handle the 5K well?

 

[Katarinaconnors]

Dont know anything about it.. mine is modularly updatable so i can always throw more $ at it.. in fact i still have my old tower Mac Pro as a backup and it still works quite well and holds like 8 drives plus a ssd on the bus. Takes 3 seconds to come up! Has 8 core (16) and cooks. The issue these days is storage as 500 gig is good for about 15-20 minutes.. in raw.
The reason most personal use cams, i.e. Sony uses a very high compression codec other wise people just dont have the killer computer, storage or time to handle more.. one of my 480 gig ssds for my x5r takes 15 minutes to fill and over an hour just to unload to my Mac... DJI made the propritary ssd dock run on usb which is a joke and bottlenecks everything and dont even offer thunderbolt! My Black Magic cinema uses standard SSDs cheap fast and plugs into my pcie bus!!!
Reason full day shoots get my matrice 600 with a industry standard camera nothing else could keep up! DJI knows drones like nobody else and is learning cameras and is clueless on post production needs. If you are going past what will go on an SD quality wise you are in a bind.. and then you still got hours in post.

 

[Filthy13]

Ps. Ask yourself how DJI is selling dng raw for $1000 to start with??? Makes as much sense as buying bottled water .....

Probably same way Sony is selling RAW unlock for the FS5 for $500. Then Convergent Design is selling the 7Q+ to capture it for $1800. Oh and tack on another $1000 for SSD's to record that RAW on. And finally another $1000 for the RAW license for the recorder.