Hobbyist shouldn't be tracked by FAA
- Thread starter slim.slamma
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Normally civilian air traffic control tracks transponders, not the actual aircraft. It is also limited by LOS so below that angle tracking will not work. Transponder equipped RC aircraft below 400’ are unlikely to ever be detected at the locations they routinely fly. Manned aircraft equipped with working transponders have the same detection issues any significant operating distance from a radar site.
And we are talking tracking every model aircraft, not just “drones”. FAA’s “Unmanned Aerial Vehicle” are any radio controlled aircraft over 250 grams in weight. Think of the undue burden placed on the RC industry if transponders are required.
There will be little practical return on this particular safety measure. I’m all for aviation & public safety. Let’s discuss practical measures that actually work. I’m not ruling out transponders if needed for some applications, but as a general requirement only the equipment manufacturer is likely to benefit.
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I’m not ruling out transponders if needed for some applications, but as a general requirement only the equipment manufacturer is likely to benefit
I couldn't agree more.
A lot of what I see is posts here comparing manned objects to unmanned objects (drones) . Anybody here fly ppg s or ultralites? Do I agree with the registration of unmanned drones and the like,yes and no. It’s obvious that most people that own a drone at some point in time will break one of the rules and that’s all it takes is just that one time. So with knowing that someone will break the rules and do what they want something needs to change. Should they lock every drone that comes into the United States to 400 feet agl and a distance of 1500 to 2000 feet or should they deal with the fact that people are going to push the limits and make airspace adjustments and divide the airspace so no other aircraft is allowed in the same airspace as a drone or model aircraft. Which is going to be easier?
Steve,
I couldn’t disagree with you more. Your dirt bike comment says it all. There is a point and a place where you can operate free of being tracked and registered. Public paths and trails do not require tracked registered and licensed skateboards, bicycles, segways, hover boards or baby strollers, motorized or not. And for years RC aircraft were not tracked, kites and models rockets flew without consequence. Even ultralights and paragliders operated without any certificate or ratings required and without any ATC commutation.
The below 400’ operating airspace was essentially ours. Yet now so many people are willfully opting in to full on tracking. For what reason? I can tell you it’s not the airline industry. I fly about 500 flights a year with a departure and arrival briefing that require operational threats to be identified and I’ve never heard The PF say that a drone is a threat! Military or civilian.
So whats the push for tracking? The big brother conspiracy as you put it is far more logical than you think. Let me endulge you:
Option 1, Big brother forces manufacturers to geofence and limit the operational capabilities of drones. Essentially put a fence around a field of hundred of untagged and non registered sheep. Contained, yes, but you have very little data.
Option 2. Register the sheep, tag the sheep, track the sheep and let them roam (free). All the while you control the data.
I know the answer that our current government prefers, the only real sheep are those who continue to give up their liberties because it just seemed too simple.
Respectfully
I couldn’t disagree with you more. Your dirt bike comment says it all. There is a point and a place where you can operate free of being tracked and registered. Public paths and trails do not require tracked registered and licensed skateboards, bicycles, segways, hover boards or baby strollers, motorized or not. And for years RC aircraft were not tracked, kites and models rockets flew without consequence. Even ultralights and paragliders operated without any certificate or ratings required and without any ATC commutation.
The below 400’ operating airspace was essentially ours. Yet now so many people are willfully opting in to full on tracking. For what reason? I can tell you it’s not the airline industry. I fly about 500 flights a year with a departure and arrival briefing that require operational threats to be identified and I’ve never heard The PF say that a drone is a threat! Military or civilian.
So whats the push for tracking? The big brother conspiracy as you put it is far more logical than you think. Let me endulge you:
Option 1, Big brother forces manufacturers to geofence and limit the operational capabilities of drones. Essentially put a fence around a field of hundred of untagged and non registered sheep. Contained, yes, but you have very little data.
Option 2. Register the sheep, tag the sheep, track the sheep and let them roam (free). All the while you control the data.
I know the answer that our current government prefers, the only real sheep are those who continue to give up their liberties because it just seemed too simple.
Respectfully
It’s our right to be protected from idiots who want to use drones to harm others (I’m sure you watch news) and ones who fly them recklessly!
I always say “If you have nothing to worry about, stop complaining “!
You can disagree, you're wrong but you can disagree.
Your arguments of 400 ft used to be ours.... it still is. If you read this 'rule', which, by the way, was created in partnership with the AMA, only applies to autonomous vehicles and only if you will be taking it above 400 ft (the public roadway of the sky). Otherwise it doesn't apply.
It's EXACLY like my dirt bike scenario. If you plan on driving your dirt bike on a roadway, you must get it registered.
Your poorly guised sheep analogy doesn't cut it either.
A model rocket is not autonomous, and paragliders have a pilot which would probably think twice about flying in areas where they might get killed hitting another airplane.
Look, I'm no 'give up my rights at all costs guy (I dare you to try to take my guns away), I'm just saying, you can be reasonable, or you can be a conspiracy theorist and you're sounding a bit like the latter.
Respectfully...
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I'll try not to inflame this further but the issue is that if you want to live in a society, around lots of other people, there are a few liberties you have to be willing to compromise on. It's our civil duty to do some things that benefit the group as a whole and not just one individual. I've seen a shift in the past 15-years where people now think that the laws are made for everyone else but not them. I see people in my neighborhood pull up to a red light, look both ways and continue on while the rest of us dutiful citizens sit there till it changes. No one studies Civics in school anymore so there is no sense of "doing something for the good of the group." It's "all about me by god." I find nothing wrong with a hobby drone pilot's craft being tracked because they can reach altitudes capable of entering a jet's engine and killing a whole lot of people. No matter what your politics, there is some rational wisdom in knowing if there is something that is capable of killing my grandmother the next time she flys from North Carolina to come see me.
While I agree that the government doesn't need to know more than absolutely necessary, the comparison between automobiles and drones is flawed. The regimented pathways for land-based vehicles are roads, with physical construction, barriers, traffic management and routes. Drones, and aircraft in general, have no such limits so disciplined use in the skies is done with regulations which will hopefully keep everyone alive to fly another day. Whether a flight plan is used or not, following the legal regulations are intended for maintaining public safety, the grounds that legalize the existence of the regulations.
In fact, it's the reckless and/or rude use of drones that ruins it for the rest of us, those who fly responsibly and try to avoid dangerous (even irritating) situations to those who not involved with our drone flight.
However, commercial-drone advocates and airline pilots said leaving out large numbers of hobbyist drones would defeat the purpose of identifying and tracking the aircraft.
Pilots and the so called pro's of the drone world are the folks backing this regulation B.S
Private club types it seems
Pilots and the so called pro's of the drone world are the folks backing this regulation B.S
Private club types it seems
Drone owners don't have anything like the 2nd Amendment built into our Constitution.Gun owners would never recommend that their tools by tracked by the government. Drone owners are just different I guess
We have a right to freely navigate the skies, some loose regulations but no need to track my tools/drone.
Stop right there at registration. No need at this point to go any further
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A. Read your FARS. Not everyone flying full scale manned aircraft are required to have a transponder.
B. Even with registration and/or transponders were required you would be a fool to think it would have any net effect to protect anything except faa jobs ar our expense.
C. So if any airliner is designed to run on one engine, fly into flocks of heavy birds etc. do you really think there's much of a chance for a drone to take one out???
I think the odds are extremely low and if somone was so lucky they already have very effective means to find those people. A transponder would be of know use and those attempting such nepharious activity arent going to be compelled to use one anyhow.
Fact.
B. Even with registration and/or transponders were required you would be a fool to think it would have any net effect to protect anything except faa jobs ar our expense.
C. So if any airliner is designed to run on one engine, fly into flocks of heavy birds etc. do you really think there's much of a chance for a drone to take one out???
I think the odds are extremely low and if somone was so lucky they already have very effective means to find those people. A transponder would be of know use and those attempting such nepharious activity arent going to be compelled to use one anyhow.
Fact.
I don’t fly my drone at 35,000’. I don’t see commercial airliners or any other aircraft under my 400’ agl ceiling. Why am I being punished and losing my freedoms? Because someone else can’t be responsible? How is the act of one or a few good enough to overreach and regulate the vast majority of people who fly these things?
Just because there are laws sayings felons can’t have guns, it doesn’t stop them. Law abiding citizens aren’t the issue here. I don’t feel like I should have to pay a penalty because someone else can’t follow the rules.
If I do something stupid, I should be held accountable. Period. Not my neighbors, not my friends, nor should any strangers.
There is no way to legislate stupid people from being stupid. It just doesn’t work. Never has, never will.
Just because there are laws sayings felons can’t have guns, it doesn’t stop them. Law abiding citizens aren’t the issue here. I don’t feel like I should have to pay a penalty because someone else can’t follow the rules.
If I do something stupid, I should be held accountable. Period. Not my neighbors, not my friends, nor should any strangers.
There is no way to legislate stupid people from being stupid. It just doesn’t work. Never has, never will.
