Low flying light aircraft

[Machoman]

Wow!

What is "their allowed altitude"? Your info doesn't indicate what country you reside in.

Seen this in many countries. Under 150m is nowhere allowed. Over cities its 300m in Germany. I am flying under 70m most times because I dont like airplane-view so I am not very afraid to hit them.

But if I would fly at 150m constantly I am not sure if there are trees around and you cannot see behind what happen if a plane appears just over the trees below 150m. Especially I dont see planes and helicopters adjust their altitude if the terrain changes. If there is a hill with 50-100m they do not adjust their alt they fly in one line so they may some time be at 200m but some time at 100m. I am rarely in flatland so there are always ground level differences around.

 

[Joola]

Seen this in many countries. Under 150m is nowhere allowed.

Cite your source. I think if you actually spent more time researching than spouting your mouth you'll discover you're wrong. Whether you will return and admit it here is another matter.

 

[Mike Mas]

This SultanGris guy is the very exact reason all us drone pilots are doomed - this goofy childish thought he has in his head that he has the right of way over full scale aircraft and a Li-po battery hitting a full size aircraft at 100 mph+ has no chance of damage totally explains his lack of understanding of anything that flies!

 

[Gary E]

Seen this in many countries. Under 150m is nowhere allowed. Over cities its 300m in Germany. I am flying under 70m most times because I dont like airplane-view so I am not very afraid to hit them.

But if I would fly at 150m constantly I am not sure if there are trees around and you cannot see behind what happen if a plane appears just over the trees below 150m. Especially I dont see planes and helicopters adjust their altitude if the terrain changes. If there is a hill with 50-100m they do not adjust their alt they fly in one line so they may some time be at 200m but some time at 100m. I am rarely in flatland so there are always ground level differences around.

Thanks for the info. You still didn't indicate where you reside in, but your read indicates somewhere in Europe, probably Germany. Whatever.

In the US, there is airspace where any type of aircraft can fly at AGL levels to 0 feet (meters). It would be safe to say, that manned aircraft pilots will adjust their flight level so as not to make contact with terrain in their flight path. Depending on flight speeds varying amounts of altitude adjustment can be made to account for terrain. Example: at 200 MPH, quick 'minute' altitude adjustments are not possible, nor advised, than say 'minute' adjustments of an aircraft flying at 100 MPH. As a result, some aircraft will not make the altitude adjustments you say to expect.

Also, one (you) cannot expect manned aircraft to always fly slow enough to see something as small as a sUAV. Example: my Lancair (high performance aircraft) lands at speeds (100 MPH) faster than the top speeds of some other aircraft types. Flying slow in a Lancair (or other high performance aircraft) is not an option.

Every pilot (operator) of any type of craft: See, Hear, Avoid

 

[Machoman]

Cite your source. I think if you actually spent more time researching than spouting your mouth you'll discover you're wrong. Whether you will return and admit it here is another matter.

Ok maybe its not nowhere allowed but not in Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Hungary and I am sure many other EU countries while there are small differences in Switzerland and Austria its not allowed under 300m over populated area while in Germany thats for dense populated areas.

 

[IrishSights]

...

Maybe in England there are not so many dense woods around its easier to see planes but in many countries you will not see aircraft or helicopters before a few seconds they may collide. If they fly low they will just appear over the trees. If they are so fast then that they cannot see the drone - though they could in their LOS - then it may be a problem.
...

The one sense that you seem to think you can't make much use of is hearing...Unless you are deaf, in which case you should not be flying UAVs. There is absolutely chance of an approaching aircraft being silent despite what you are alluding to and they do not just 'appear' above trees before you have heard them. You do not wait to find out the direction of approach, you just get down, which can be done very quickly.

Having said that I think there is an increasing need for general small manned low flyng aircraft to fly at a more conservative altitude as part of being proactive in promoting a 'drone aware' culture amongst pilots - part of that two way education process. This needs to be driven by influencers in aviation, flight schools, instructors, ATC, NAA'S etc.

The onus is still heavily weighed on UAV operators to understand and assess the airspace environment they are flying in. By not having a life on board vs manned aircraft, the principle just quoted here of see, hear, avoid stands paramount.

 

[The Editor]

The one sense that you seem to think you can't make much use of is hearing...Unless you are deaf, in which case you should not be flying UAVs. There is absolutely chance of an approaching aircraft being silent despite what you are alluding to and they do not just 'appear' above trees before you have heard them. You do not wait to find out the direction of approach, you just get down, which can be done very quickly.

Having said that I think there is an increasing need for general small manned low flyng aircraft to fly at a more conservative altitude as part of being proactive in promoting a 'drone aware' culture amongst pilots - part of that two way education process. This needs to be driven by influencers in aviation, flight schools, instructors, ATC, NAA'S etc.

The onerous is still heavily weighed on UAV operators to understand and assess the airspace environment they are flying in. By not having a life on board vs manned aircraft, the principle just quoted here of see, hear, avoid stands paramount.

Agree with everything above - however, I have been caught out on two occasions now by.......gliders. Those buggers are completely silent.

 

[gogowanda]

This video show the loss of a prop blade on a Lancair back in 1991. The pilot was expert in getting the engine shut down immediately and making an emergency safe landing. It is noted that the event occurred right over the airport. Note all of the engine and cowl debris that departs and the remaining debris just above instrument panel at the bottom of the wind screen. One item clearly seen there is a engine oil hydraulic line.

man that's a tense moment, you can hear that long exhale when the plane stopped rolling.

 

[Gary E]

Quote deleted by moderator.

It's a big deal if it's me.

 

[IrishSights]

Quote deleted by moderator

What childish language and rude attitude. Your finger pointing self appointed arrogant authority stinks. Anyone that uses '(c)****' twice in a thread must roll in it. Every thread you descend into you come off with this stuff. You are a wrecker. This is classic trolling and feeding time stops here.

 

[The Editor]

Agreed

@Carlsberg - please desist from the type of comments made in this thread. It is totally uncalled for and shows a total disregard for human life!
You already have 3 warning points against you driven by complaints from other members on the forum.
Please do not make it a fourth and a ban.

Thank You.

 

[Ezookiel]

@SultanGris, I thought you might be interested in this article about a simulated drone impact on a passenger aircraft sized engine.

It's only a simulation but it demonstrates catastrophic engine failure....
Personal Drones Getting Sucked into Jet Engines Could Be Disastrous > ENGINEERING.com

Firstly it's a simulation so not really a test at all because it is totally dependent on the data fed in, secondly they fed it an 8 pound drone.
That's no "personal drone" that's 1/3rd heavier than an Inspire.

So until they feed a real Phantom through a real jet engine, it will remain a mute point. A simulation with over stated weights is useless

 

[IrishSights]

Ah....we know it's a simulation, it said so.

An Inspire is what 6lb? It carries some weight at least if not conclusive. Simulations are valuable in all aspects of life not just aviation. Worth weighing up and not dismissing it is all I'm saying.

 

[lake_flyer]

Quote deleted by moderator

Even if you're not talking to me, I'm not here to get annoyed by your filthy language, to anyone.

 

[Mike Shockley]

How does one pre check a situation like this. I was on my way to film when I saw this. Is there a central flight plan place and time? I am in the US, so FAA. thanks in advance. Mike

 

[Dave Stanton]

Mike, Here's what I found doing a little web research. FAA regulations: According to §137.51, the crop duster must operate “with maximum safety to persons and property on the surface” and the crop duster must have obtained prior written approval from the FAA and notice of the intended operation must be given to the public. Further, the crop duster must submit a plan to the FAA that considers the flight obstructions and plans for a possible emergency landing.

Pilots are required to file a "congested area plan" if they are planning to fly low around homes or businesses but there is the catch, what is a "congest area"? In the case of one crop duster this actually when all the way to the US Supreme court. It did not end well for him since he had been warned by an FAA inspector in the past and still flew very low without a congested area plan.

I can say having lived in Iowa that, if you plan to fly your drone ANYWHERE in a heavy agricultural area, you should expect crop dusters depending on what time of the growing season it is. I have seen crop dusters who took off from grass landing strip "airfields," with no FAA towers within miles. They fly, dust the crops, return to the airfield to reload and fly again. Maybe they filed something with the FAA, maybe not. I can't say. But it doesn't matter. If I planned to fly a drone over cropland, I and my spotter would be the ones watching all the time for a crop duster. If my drone was in the air and I was lucky enough to hear a crop dusting plane or helicopter coming, I'd land immediately in the corn, wheat or bean field. Your drone might get "dusted" but better that than crashing into the crop duster's aircraft.

 

[The Editor]

How does one pre check a situation like this. I was on my way to film when I saw this. Is there a central flight plan place and time? I am in the US, so FAA. thanks in advance. Mike

Duplicate posts deleted - please only post once.

 

[AMGPilot]

Then they should only be allowed to fly at speeds where they can see them. They have to expect a drone anywhere when they fly below 400ft so they must fly safe and in a speed to see them and the drone has time enough to react and evade.

You sir are an idiot.

 

[AMGPilot]

I've had two birdstrikes over my years as a pilot. one hit the wing and did damage to it. One went straight through the windscreen. Both are softer than an Inspire. don't for a second think that a drone can't take out an airplane.

As for see and avoid, well the drone operator needs to avoid the aircraft not the other way around. 99% of the time there is no way for a fixed wing or Rotary wing pilot to see a drone unless it's right on top of you. Hell neither time did I see the birds until it was inevitable that there would be an impact

 

[Chuck R]

If the aircraft was flying below 500ft then they should have notified/asked permission from the local ATC.

If you are really worried about it, call the nearest ATC, they may ask you to file an AIRPROX.

Actually, it's legal (In the US and under certain circumstances listed here) to fly over water at an altitude less than 500ft. FAR 91.119(C) states that an aircraft must maintain an altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

It's still incumbent on you, the UAV pilot, to see and avoid. Which means the UAV is required to yield the right-of-way to manned aircraft. That doesn't mean you have to land when you see another aircraft, it just means you have to stay out of its way while maintaining safe separation (FAR 91.113(a).