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Not happy with DNG files from X5s (still photography)

I'd recommend you go with the 17mm and the 45mm. This assumes you are going to keep the X4S which you could use as your wide option. The 17 and 45 are a couple of our favorite lenses on this machine. As a 20 year Canon guy, I can not say you will get DSLR quality especially if you use L glass - but the I2 with the X5S is the closest we have ever seen to decent images in the air without flying a custom rig and regular camera.

The 25mm has definitely shown its share of issues - but the 45mm is fantastic...definitely the way to go for your mast inspections.

As you get closer to making your purchase, let us know. We stock a lot of the X5S without the lens (saves $500) as the DJI lens is probably not the best route to go.

If you have any more questions, just let us know.

Michael

Michael,

I appreciate this. I'm a 30-yr Canon guy with (with 6 bodies and 11 lenses) all L glass, so I have an expectation of what digital imaging is capable of. I've read a lot on this forum and others and I'm not naive. I do realize I won't equal what I'm used to unless, like you say, I fly one of my Canon bodies. I value your expertise in both the Canon world and the I2 world and the recommendation is very much appreciated. I'll stay in touch with you.
 
Michael,

I appreciate this. I'm a 30-yr Canon guy with (with 6 bodies and 11 lenses) all L glass, so I have an expectation of what digital imaging is capable of. I've read a lot on this forum and others and I'm not naive. I do realize I won't equal what I'm used to unless, like you say, I fly one of my Canon bodies. I value your expertise in both the Canon world and the I2 world and the recommendation is very much appreciated. I'll stay in touch with you.
Sounds great. We still have occasion to put a 5D 3 up in the air with a 16-35L so we just had our first cut of a custom frame that carries this with a full DJI electronics package and DJI tuned propulsion system. It flies with the GoApp and will have in air zoom. I'll send some photos off the carbon version when we get it (first cut from G-10).

Great to meet another Canon guy. Talk to you soon.
 
Hello, I have an I2 plus an X5s received some weeks ago. I'm a photographer and work regularly with Canon. My intention is to have a flying photographic equipment with sufficient quality. A few months ago I bought an Olympus E-M1 to test 3 optics: 12, 25 and 45mm. Happy with 25 and 45, but not with 12. Now, mounted on the X5s, and visualized with Lightroom, the results are somewhat worse. The same lenses mounted on E-M1 look a bit crisper. I attach a few examples with the 12mm after two test flights. I hope links works. The automatic white balance is disappointing and the definition in the corners is, in my opinion, bad. What do you think? I'm expecting too much?

Dropbox - DJI_0006.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0009.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0031.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0033.DNG

Agreed...these look terrible. I'm tempted to ask questions about post-processing and digital settings, but being a professional photographer, I assume you know what you're doing in that regard. It looks like these were shot in "vivid" mode, which shouldn't be a deal-breaker, but might be worth exploring. I always shoot D-log. You might want to shoot a couple in D-log just to eliminate DJI photo processing as the culprit.

If I didn't know any better, I would say the glass looks like it might be misaligned, but this honestly looks like a digital artifact. I've done frame grabs from 4K video that looked better than this. Have you tried shooting with your other lenses just to eliminate the glass as the culprit?

When it comes to forensics, I find it's best to eliminate culprits. You have several lenses, so you have that advantage. Shoot D-log with all settings on -3. I would be interested in seeing those images.
 
Ah yes, a real photographer, not a vidiot. Pardon my lack of civility, for my name says it all. Like you, I too had a dream of aerial photography once upon a time (decades ago, actually). For three years I fulfilled that dream with a Nikon D800 and a Cinestar8, but it flew away last December never to be seen again, but I digress.
And so on New Years Eve, I came to discover the maker of over-priced children's toys, DJI, a company that seems to care little for, and know even less about, still photography, all the cool kids having abandoned such primitive media long ago. Ah, but there I go again, being carelessly cynical. I'm afraid you must forgive me, for I am a scoundrel and a fool, but in our society only the fool is permitted to speak the truth, so I shall try as best I am able.
What I can tell you about my experience with the X5S used exclusively for still photography is a complex and peculiar story. It's an interesting "camera", for sure, not that I'm certain you can really call it a camera, for it lacks a shutter, and is best thought of as a flying sensor that was designed for video. In fact, should you shoot "raw burst" stills on the SSD, you're really shooting 4:3 5K video at 20fps, with the resulting raws being CineDNG files and not something most programs will recognize as a still image.
With regard to image quality, particularly as it relates to the various M43 lenses one might throw at this thing, I have recently discovered that the "excess baggage" DJI places in their DNG files little flatters whatever glass you happen to place in front of the sensor. I learned this because I, in a fit of madness, became determined to convert the CineDNG frames into proper still DNGs that civilized programs will recognize, and I've very nearly succeeded at this task, although it required far more learning than someone of my feeble mental abilities would have preferred.
The fact (if there is such a thing) is this: if you take a still DNG and process it through Lightroom (or whatever bug-filled bloatware Adopey is peddling to doctors, lawyers and investment bankers these days), the result will be most unimpressive, as you have keenly observed. However, and of quite a shock to me, when you remove most of the "cruft" (profiles, maker notes, etc.) from the DNG and repackage it as linear raw Bayer data along with an absolute minimum of metadata to make it a proper DNG, then you get a completely different result, and one that looks (in my rather jaded opinion) quite a bit better (except for the color balance, which I have yet to figure out).
Shockingly, I discovered that DNG files shot with the Oly 25/1.8, which produce horrid LCA when processed normally, look perfectly fine when releived of their DJI encumbered metadata. The CA simply disappears. How can that be? Can the demons of the X5S truly be exorcised? I fear it is still too early to say for certain, but one must always have faith.
But I've prattled on entirely too much and have said essentially nothing, as is my trademark. And don't get me started on the infamous left-side blur issue, which DJI (and the crowd of internet know-it-alls) denies the existence of. That is a story for another thread and another time, and it is now time for me to go. Toodles.

I like this guy. That said....

Which one of the X5 flavors do you have? X5? X5R? X5S? Not sure if you have an Inspire 1 or 2.
 
Yes

I use AF, but I don't have focus assist turned on. I didn't know I have to calibrate the lens, it has not been necessary with mthe Olympus E-M1, but I'll check it out how to do it.

Sorry, I don't have X4s
I'll try again this week with all your recomendations, thanks to all.

Hello, I am exploring and learning on the X5S with the Olympus 12, 25, and 45 lens. Mike from Advexture pointed me to this post on calibration. I am told you do need to calibrate each lens and the Inspire 2 will remember the calibration. You are basically setting the infinity focus for each lens.
Final and detailed guide on X5 "lens calibration"

Travis from Advexture also shared where the calibration button is in the Go 4 app here:
13571-5d54c0b98cb35bd1a47186570561294c.png

This was helpful to me and I am getting a sharper image.

Hope this helps, Chris
 
Sounds great. We still have occasion to put a 5D 3 up in the air with a 16-35L so we just had our first cut of a custom frame that carries this with a full DJI electronics package and DJI tuned propulsion system. It flies with the GoApp and will have in air zoom. I'll send some photos off the carbon version when we get it (first cut from G-10).

Great to meet another Canon guy. Talk to you soon.

Cool, yea, I'd like to see a few f those photos. Do you have "Live View" working also? I assume so or else you wouldn't know what you are shooting. Very cool.
 
Sounds great. We still have occasion to put a 5D 3 up in the air with a 16-35L so we just had our first cut of a custom frame that carries this with a full DJI electronics package and DJI tuned propulsion system. It flies with the GoApp and will have in air zoom. I'll send some photos off the carbon version when we get it (first cut from G-10).

Great to meet another Canon guy. Talk to you soon.

Interested also and would be more so if it was a 5DsR or 5D4 with a 50L.
 
Hello, I have an I2 plus an X5s received some weeks ago. I'm a photographer and work regularly with Canon. My intention is to have a flying photographic equipment with sufficient quality. A few months ago I bought an Olympus E-M1 to test 3 optics: 12, 25 and 45mm. Happy with 25 and 45, but not with 12. Now, mounted on the X5s, and visualized with Lightroom, the results are somewhat worse. The same lenses mounted on E-M1 look a bit crisper. I attach a few examples with the 12mm after two test flights. I hope links works. The automatic white balance is disappointing and the definition in the corners is, in my opinion, bad. What do you think? I'm expecting too much?

Dropbox - DJI_0006.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0009.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0031.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0033.DNG


I know you are disappointed by the 12, but I have to say, I'm encouraged by these. Pretty much all image examples I've been looking at here and on other forums are disappointing. Nothing is in focus, the depth of field is awful and the CA is bad. Your image '0006' actually has some good sharp focus. The rock wall has good resolution compared to other shots I've seen and with a little 'unsharp masking' it's definitely usable from my perspective. The other shots seem to suffer from motion blur, like the shutter speed was too slow.

For instance, '0031' doesn't seem to have anything in focus. If it's the same lens as '0006' then I'm guessing it was just not focused well, or, it has motion blur. I'm not sure it's a fair image from which to judge the quality of the lens if it's the same lens that shot '0006.' I think '0031' suffers from other things, not bad glass.

Image '0009' encourages me also. The pile of rocks looks pretty good when sharpened and the depth of field is pretty good. Zoomed in you can make out detail in the towers on the horizon. That's not bad at all.

From what I see, if these make you unhappy and the other lenses do make you happy, I'm guessing the other lenses have some really nice resolution. I know your intent for the post was to point out that the 12mm lens was not a good performer, but in an odd way, this post lets me have hope. If the worst resolution is similar to '0006' or '0009', then I think there is room for me to be encouraged.

I'm not so worried now about going ahead and buying the X5S and a couple of lenses. The X4S I'm using now is not as good as your worst shot here so for me, I can only look forward to a leap in improvement.
 
You can use any Canon (or other DSLR) in that weight range. We just currently have 5D3 cameras around we have been using.

Very nice. So, yea, when I start to get tired of my I2 maybe I'll have to invest in a big boy to fly my Canon's around. However, I guess I won't be able to fly my 100-400mm favorite lens...lol...
 
Very nice. So, yea, when I start to get tired of my I2 maybe I'll have to invest in a big boy to fly my Canon's around. However, I guess I won't be able to fly my 100-400mm favorite lens...lol...

....never say never...haha

We just got back from the big drone show in Dallas and saw something used for lifting construction equipment. The smallest one carried 175 pounds (but set you back a quarter million dollars)
 
favorite favpirote
....never say never...haha

We just got back from the big drone show in Dallas and saw something used for lifting construction equipment. The smallest one carried 175 pounds (but set you back a quarter million dollars)

Darn, my Part 107 Certification won't let me fly that...or I'd go buy one...lol
 
Very nice. So, yea, when I start to get tired of my I2 maybe I'll have to invest in a big boy to fly my Canon's around. However, I guess I won't be able to fly my 100-400mm favorite lens...lol...
Hmm, think I can top you - 12 bodies, and I'm waiting for something to lift & stabilise a 500/4 & 2x ;) :D (Ok, so you can save a pound or two weight and leave the hood off - causes too much vibration in cross wind at 30-40mph+ ;) )
 
First of all, thanks to all of oyu, that's important to me, we all know that big investment and poor results are always an awful combination.

I know you are disappointed by the 12, but I have to say, I'm encouraged by these. Pretty much all image examples I've been looking at here and on other forums are disappointing. Nothing is in focus, the depth of field is awful and the CA is bad. Your image '0006' actually has some good sharp focus. The rock wall has good resolution compared to other shots I've seen and with a little 'unsharp masking' it's definitely usable from my perspective. The other shots seem to suffer from motion blur, like the shutter speed was too slow.

For instance, '0031' doesn't seem to have anything in focus. If it's the same lens as '0006' then I'm guessing it was just not focused well, or, it has motion blur. I'm not sure it's a fair image from which to judge the quality of the lens if it's the same lens that shot '0006.' I think '0031' suffers from other things, not bad glass.

Image '0009' encourages me also. The pile of rocks looks pretty good when sharpened and the depth of field is pretty good. Zoomed in you can make out detail in the towers on the horizon. That's not bad at all.

From what I see, if these make you unhappy and the other lenses do make you happy, I'm guessing the other lenses have some really nice resolution. I know your intent for the post was to point out that the 12mm lens was not a good performer, but in an odd way, this post lets me have hope. If the worst resolution is similar to '0006' or '0009', then I think there is room for me to be encouraged.

I'm not so worried now about going ahead and buying the X5S and a couple of lenses. The X4S I'm using now is not as good as your worst shot here so for me, I can only look forward to a leap in improvement.
Thanks for your comments and time. From my last post, I've found that I can I get the same results that with the Olympus E-M1, if the drone is still on a table. So it looks to me that whithout motion issues and (and that's a very important) if the focus is right, the quality is reasonable. It seems that the focus system on the X5s is not very good, to say something. Sorry but I can't understand how this machine, at that price, has a so poor AF mode, and we are talking about single, not continous AF.

Agreed...these look terrible. I'm tempted to ask questions about post-processing and digital settings, but being a professional photographer, I assume you know what you're doing in that regard. It looks like these were shot in "vivid" mode, which shouldn't be a deal-breaker, but might be worth exploring. I always shoot D-log. You might want to shoot a couple in D-log just to eliminate DJI photo processing as the culprit.

If I didn't know any better, I would say the glass looks like it might be misaligned, but this honestly looks like a digital artifact. I've done frame grabs from 4K video that looked better than this. Have you tried shooting with your other lenses just to eliminate the glass as the culprit?

When it comes to forensics, I find it's best to eliminate culprits. You have several lenses, so you have that advantage. Shoot D-log with all settings on -3. I would be interested in seeing those images.

Thanks, I'll have to try D-log. I have returned the 12mm and I'm testing Olympus 17mm todady, let's see.

I am told you do need to calibrate each lens and the Inspire 2 will remember the calibration. You are basically setting the infinity focus for each lens.
Final and detailed guide on X5 "lens calibration"
Thanks, I'll check it, it seems there is not any other way.
 
There's not a dedicated AF system like there is on the DSLRs, that's why focus isn't always as fast or accurate. Cameras like the Canons have a dedicated AF array and processor that does the hard work before the mirror is raised for the photo. With innovations like the cross type sensors (sensitive to both vertical and horizontal lines), af can be extremely accurate and fast across a wide range of native lens apertures, not just wide ones like f/2.8. Also, Continuous af on these cameras isn't really totally continuous, when you take a photo and the mirror is raised af is stopped and begins again when the mirror drops back down. The af processor attempts to predict the focus drive needed, but accuracy in that mode does drop against single shot af. The mirror systems are incredible in these things, being able to work at 10-14fps or more, but it's still not enough for video frame rates of 24fps or greater.

The x5s on the other hand is designed for video with a continuous readout, not photos. It's mirrorless and it doesn't have a dedicated af array, that means it has to work out focus using the sensor readout instead, it's slower and less accurate... but they should be able to work in an intelligent continuous (but slow) focus mode.

As with everything, the I2 and x5s is a system with compromises made, video/photo/weight/accuracy/battery etc. It's an incredible system against what was available even just 12-18 months back. I've run canon systems since '91 and always dreamed of being able to get them in the air, but it's always been difficult and expensive, and with Problems like viewing the viewfinder and operating the camera controls from the ground, I thought long and hard about buying the m600, gimbal and control systems, but decided that the cost-benefit-quality-usability came down in favour of getting up and running quickly with something like the I2. The difference in end product/picture quality isn't that dissimilar to the end user (joe public), certainly there're very few who'd pixel-peep or who'd notice any difference!

Btw, if you're shooting photos I'd expect you to be shooting raw... if that's the case, then Dlog is immaterial as its intended for use with video to try and maintain exposure latitude for playing with in a video NLE suite like resolve, fcpx or premiere. If you shoot photos correctly exposed in raw, then know how to process the raw images, things like white balance and colour space that are chosen by the camera at point of shooting are meaningless... you just change them yourself in post. So, even if DJI's white balance settings are off, you can easily tweak it to one you like in lightroom etc.
 
BTW, with the X5 and X5S, lens calibration is only utilised in manual focus. The lens 'calibration' in DJI systems is simply to provide the system with an electronic 'scale' of where near and far are for use with manual focus modes, basically so you can touch the top/bottom of the manual focus scale and instantly rack focus to those points - that's all. There's no other 'clever' tweaking or magic sauce with focus 'calibration' in the AF mode as it's being done using the sensor readout and the selected focus point that you've tapped on screen. Lens calibration isn't like the AF calibration micro-adjustments that are on Canon which allows you to tweak the front/back-focus of a lens type & camera combination.

Hope that helps clear some of the confusing overlap of terms.... ;)
 
Thanks for your information, very clear.
It's mirrorless and it doesn't have a dedicated af array, that means it has to work out focus using the sensor readout instead, it's slower and less accurate... but they should be able to work in an intelligent continuous (but slow) focus mode.
Yes, I know that, but I also know that others mirrorless like Panasonic and many others use contrast autofocus, using sensor for AF and it seems to me that there is a difference with AF results.
Btw, if you're shooting photos I'd expect you to be shooting raw
Yes, as with all my cameras since 2002. And a different kind of RAW with this camera, these "cooked" DNG's. By the way, I have a Leica SL kit at home for a few days. It use also DNG's, but in Lightroom, apart from the embedded profile, you can choose also Adobe standard profile. You don't have this option with the X5s DNG's. Not important anyway, to me (at least by now) Lightroom is not the way to go with X5s.
 
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