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Not happy with DNG files from X5s (still photography)

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Hello, I have an I2 plus an X5s received some weeks ago. I'm a photographer and work regularly with Canon. My intention is to have a flying photographic equipment with sufficient quality. A few months ago I bought an Olympus E-M1 to test 3 optics: 12, 25 and 45mm. Happy with 25 and 45, but not with 12. Now, mounted on the X5s, and visualized with Lightroom, the results are somewhat worse. The same lenses mounted on E-M1 look a bit crisper. I attach a few examples with the 12mm after two test flights. I hope links works. The automatic white balance is disappointing and the definition in the corners is, in my opinion, bad. What do you think? I'm expecting too much?

Dropbox - DJI_0006.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0009.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0031.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0033.DNG
 
Ah yes, a real photographer, not a vidiot. Pardon my lack of civility, for my name says it all. Like you, I too had a dream of aerial photography once upon a time (decades ago, actually). For three years I fulfilled that dream with a Nikon D800 and a Cinestar8, but it flew away last December never to be seen again, but I digress.
And so on New Years Eve, I came to discover the maker of over-priced children's toys, DJI, a company that seems to care little for, and know even less about, still photography, all the cool kids having abandoned such primitive media long ago. Ah, but there I go again, being carelessly cynical. I'm afraid you must forgive me, for I am a scoundrel and a fool, but in our society only the fool is permitted to speak the truth, so I shall try as best I am able.
What I can tell you about my experience with the X5S used exclusively for still photography is a complex and peculiar story. It's an interesting "camera", for sure, not that I'm certain you can really call it a camera, for it lacks a shutter, and is best thought of as a flying sensor that was designed for video. In fact, should you shoot "raw burst" stills on the SSD, you're really shooting 4:3 5K video at 20fps, with the resulting raws being CineDNG files and not something most programs will recognize as a still image.
With regard to image quality, particularly as it relates to the various M43 lenses one might throw at this thing, I have recently discovered that the "excess baggage" DJI places in their DNG files little flatters whatever glass you happen to place in front of the sensor. I learned this because I, in a fit of madness, became determined to convert the CineDNG frames into proper still DNGs that civilized programs will recognize, and I've very nearly succeeded at this task, although it required far more learning than someone of my feeble mental abilities would have preferred.
The fact (if there is such a thing) is this: if you take a still DNG and process it through Lightroom (or whatever bug-filled bloatware Adopey is peddling to doctors, lawyers and investment bankers these days), the result will be most unimpressive, as you have keenly observed. However, and of quite a shock to me, when you remove most of the "cruft" (profiles, maker notes, etc.) from the DNG and repackage it as linear raw Bayer data along with an absolute minimum of metadata to make it a proper DNG, then you get a completely different result, and one that looks (in my rather jaded opinion) quite a bit better (except for the color balance, which I have yet to figure out).
Shockingly, I discovered that DNG files shot with the Oly 25/1.8, which produce horrid LCA when processed normally, look perfectly fine when releived of their DJI encumbered metadata. The CA simply disappears. How can that be? Can the demons of the X5S truly be exorcised? I fear it is still too early to say for certain, but one must always have faith.
But I've prattled on entirely too much and have said essentially nothing, as is my trademark. And don't get me started on the infamous left-side blur issue, which DJI (and the crowd of internet know-it-alls) denies the existence of. That is a story for another thread and another time, and it is now time for me to go. Toodles.
 
Ah yes, a real photographer, not a vidiot. Pardon my lack of civility, for my name says it all. Like you, I too had a dream of aerial photography once upon a time (decades ago, actually). For three years I fulfilled that dream with a Nikon D800 and a Cinestar8, but it flew away last December never to be seen again, but I digress.
And so on New Years Eve, I came to discover the maker of over-priced children's toys, DJI, a company that seems to care little for, and know even less about, still photography, all the cool kids having abandoned such primitive media long ago. Ah, but there I go again, being carelessly cynical. I'm afraid you must forgive me, for I am a scoundrel and a fool, but in our society only the fool is permitted to speak the truth, so I shall try as best I am able.
What I can tell you about my experience with the X5S used exclusively for still photography is a complex and peculiar story. It's an interesting "camera", for sure, not that I'm certain you can really call it a camera, for it lacks a shutter, and is best thought of as a flying sensor that was designed for video. In fact, should you shoot "raw burst" stills on the SSD, you're really shooting 4:3 5K video at 20fps, with the resulting raws being CineDNG files and not something most programs will recognize as a still image.
With regard to image quality, particularly as it relates to the various M43 lenses one might throw at this thing, I have recently discovered that the "excess baggage" DJI places in their DNG files little flatters whatever glass you happen to place in front of the sensor. I learned this because I, in a fit of madness, became determined to convert the CineDNG frames into proper still DNGs that civilized programs will recognize, and I've very nearly succeeded at this task, although it required far more learning than someone of my feeble mental abilities would have preferred.
The fact (if there is such a thing) is this: if you take a still DNG and process it through Lightroom (or whatever bug-filled bloatware Adopey is peddling to doctors, lawyers and investment bankers these days), the result will be most unimpressive, as you have keenly observed. However, and of quite a shock to me, when you remove most of the "cruft" (profiles, maker notes, etc.) from the DNG and repackage it as linear raw Bayer data along with an absolute minimum of metadata to make it a proper DNG, then you get a completely different result, and one that looks (in my rather jaded opinion) quite a bit better (except for the color balance, which I have yet to figure out).
Shockingly, I discovered that DNG files shot with the Oly 25/1.8, which produce horrid LCA when processed normally, look perfectly fine when releived of their DJI encumbered metadata. The CA simply disappears. How can that be? Can the demons of the X5S truly be exorcised? I fear it is still too early to say for certain, but one must always have faith.
But I've prattled on entirely too much and have said essentially nothing, as is my trademark. And don't get me started on the infamous left-side blur issue, which DJI (and the crowd of internet know-it-alls) denies the existence of. That is a story for another thread and another time, and it is now time for me to go. Toodles.

You do have a way with words, in a good way. Can you send me info or a link on how you relieved the images of their DJI encumbered metadata.
 
Last edited:
Well, thanks! As SanCap ask, it would be nice to know how to "remove most of the "cruft". Some days ago I processed some pictures with RawTheraphy and the results are frankly better, but it's a new program to me with a lot (too much?) controls.
 
So it isn't just me. I am using the stock 15mm DJI lens and for the life of me, CA seems to be an inclusive "feature" of this system. Very annoying to say the least as it adds another step in the workflow to remove it. I am using Lightroom but might try running these files through my tried and true Apple Aperture which unfortunately will die once Apple pulls the plug. I shoot a Nikon D810 and D500 and the Capture NX D software seems to process RAW images better on Nikon NEF files than Adobe Craproom and Photoschmuck (if you haven't noticed, I am not a real fan of Adopey products). I wish DJI would use higher-end Sony sensors. :(
 
I've just returned from another test fly and the results are, again, poor. By now the only lens that works correctly (I'm talking about detail) is the Olympus 45mm. But I get too many pictures out of focus that you don't realize till you're at home.
Again the best results with RawTheraphy. I've tried On 1 Photo RAW today but don't like the results.
Dissapointed all togheter.
 
The best results are with RawTheraphy simply because it ignores the profile data in the files.

For stills DJI needs to do a better job with the profiles, not only have they introduced errors such as the CA mentioned above by The Grumpter but the "RAW Burst" files he also mentions are further discussed in this thread:

Still Photo RAW Burst to CineSSD creates different RAW files?

and also have profile issues that effectively render them useless. Seriously, DJI needs to hire better people for their still software because it produces images that are almost there but are unusable for serious work.

Thanks to The Grumpster for the effort to rip apart the files.
 
I've just returned from another test fly and the results are, again, poor. By now the only lens that works correctly (I'm talking about detail) is the Olympus 45mm. But I get too many pictures out of focus that you don't realize till you're at home.
Again the best results with RawTheraphy. I've tried On 1 Photo RAW today but don't like the results.
Dissapointed all togheter.

Have you calibrated the lens for MF? Are you using AF or MF? Do you have focus assist (red lines) turned on?
 
Are you tapping to focus?
Yes
Have you calibrated the lens for MF? Are you using AF or MF? Do you have focus assist (red lines) turned on?
I use AF, but I don't have focus assist turned on. I didn't know I have to calibrate the lens, it has not been necessary with mthe Olympus E-M1, but I'll check it out how to do it.
How is the X4s stills compared to the x5s stills......same issues?
Sorry, I don't have X4s
I'll try again this week with all your recomendations, thanks to all.
 
A new test with the drone on a table and a subject at about 600 meters away. The weather was really ugly, sorry. Even with Lightroom I would say it's decent (talking about sharpness).Like always, better with RawTherapee. Here's the best DNG I could get, whith Olympus 25mm at f3.5. At f5,6 is a bit softer. Tried also the olympus 45mm, all the pictures are more or less out of focus, after tap in for focus, etc. Probably a problem with the lens.

Dropbox - DJI_0036.DNG
 
I don't have an X5S yet but am researching it. I've been an advertising photographer for 30-years and I'm looking for great image resolution. I'm not encouraged by this thread, to say the least. I did watch a very long and good comparison of the X4S (which I have) and the X5S. With both lenses, the sharpest images were on the largest/widest aperture. That's the opposite of what we all know about high-quality professional lenses. The widest and the smallest are never the sharperst. The sharp sweet spot is always somewhere in the middle. With some lenses it's north of center and with some south. It's alway nice to think that you can stop down to f8 or f11 and get a little more depth of field and a little more focus security. But apparently with the X5S, if you don't shoot wide open, you'll have a lower quality image. That's unfortunate.

I still plan to buy an X5S for the interchangeability of lenses. But I'm a little discouraged with the samples of .dng's I'm seeing.
 
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Reactions: Donnie Frank
But I'm a little discouraged with the samples of .dng's I'm seeing.
Unfortunately, me too! But I'll keep on trying, Inspire 2 is on the top of the weight I can hike with and I have to try the best combination to get satisfactory results.
I hope to try Olympus 17mm these days, I'm still looking for a wide angle with acceptable quality.
 
Don't know about I2, but I1 you have to to calibrate the camera focus for autofocus. There are videos in youtube.
Hello, I have an I2 plus an X5s received some weeks ago. I'm a photographer and work regularly with Canon. My intention is to have a flying photographic equipment with sufficient quality. A few months ago I bought an Olympus E-M1 to test 3 optics: 12, 25 and 45mm. Happy with 25 and 45, but not with 12. Now, mounted on the X5s, and visualized with Lightroom, the results are somewhat worse. The same lenses mounted on E-M1 look a bit crisper. I attach a few examples with the 12mm after two test flights. I hope links works. The automatic white balance is disappointing and the definition in the corners is, in my opinion, bad. What do you think? I'm expecting too much?

Dropbox - DJI_0006.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0009.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0031.DNG

Dropbox - DJI_0033.DNG
 
  • Like
Reactions: pandion
Again, since I don't have an X5S yet, from what I'm reading, I'm assuming the best way to go for image quality is to use a fixed focal length lens. I see there is a zoom lens or maybe a couple of them available. I've read a few posts about those lenses and they don't seem to be the sharpest. I'm planning to buy just two lenses to start with. I'm trying to figure out what the best two would be. Maybe a 15mm or 17mm and a 45mm? I have plans to shoot two things.

1: landscapes for civil engineering 3d renderings. I'd shoot the area, say a large interstate interchange and then I'll drop in the new roadway design in 3d. The wider lens for this.
2: I plan to inspect sailboat masts, mainly the tops where everything connects. I think the 45mm would be good for that so I can see up closer but stay further back from the shrouds and stays so I don't whack them.

If anyone has what they think are really excellent examples of still DNGs from a calibrated lens I'd really like to see some.
 
Again, since I don't have an X5S yet, from what I'm reading, I'm assuming the best way to go for image quality is to use a fixed focal length lens. I see there is a zoom lens or maybe a couple of them available. I've read a few posts about those lenses and they don't seem to be the sharpest. I'm planning to buy just two lenses to start with. I'm trying to figure out what the best two would be. Maybe a 15mm or 17mm and a 45mm? I have plans to shoot two things.

1: landscapes for civil engineering 3d renderings. I'd shoot the area, say a large interstate interchange and then I'll drop in the new roadway design in 3d. The wider lens for this.
2: I plan to inspect sailboat masts, mainly the tops where everything connects. I think the 45mm would be good for that so I can see up closer but stay further back from the shrouds and stays so I don't whack them.

If anyone has what they think are really excellent examples of still DNGs from a calibrated lens I'd really like to see some.

I'd recommend you go with the 17mm and the 45mm. This assumes you are going to keep the X4S which you could use as your wide option. The 17 and 45 are a couple of our favorite lenses on this machine. As a 20 year Canon guy, I can not say you will get DSLR quality especially if you use L glass - but the I2 with the X5S is the closest we have ever seen to decent images in the air without flying a custom rig and regular camera.

The 25mm has definitely shown its share of issues - but the 45mm is fantastic...definitely the way to go for your mast inspections.

As you get closer to making your purchase, let us know. We stock a lot of the X5S without the lens (saves $500) as the DJI lens is probably not the best route to go.

If you have any more questions, just let us know.

Michael
 

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