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Pilot's license requirement might not be so silly afterall

No licensed pilot ever thinks "how can I get around this or that regulation" or decides that a given regulation is overly burdensome and is thereby safely ignored.

Pilots also know about "get-there-itis" and how to properly assess and mitigate risk when making the go/no-go decision. That ability to recognize and respond to significant risk factors, rather than rationalize and ignore them.............

This is the single greatest statement ever made on this and PP forum.

I take most of these threads very comically. Perfect example is the other day a user had an issue with his equipment and I posted a screen shot from the manufacturer describing how to fix the problem, shortly after another member post how this is wrong information and goes into his usual speal about this and that.
 
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My 2 cents while you wait? Find and complete a good private pilot ground school. There are some online courses. My guess is that a major chunk of the written exam will be on national airspace rules, navigation, weather, FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations), etc, the stuff you will find in a ground school. Reviewing the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, free here is a good way to spend your time between now and the exam. Don't concern yourself with a flight check, the FAA knows the UAVs are easy to fly; plus they don't have enough examiners to go out and test every applicant (seriously doubt Congress is going to give them some juicy big budget for this). Some countries like the UK are testing applicants for flight skills, but keep in mind they are very small populations (in comparison with the US).

IF A DRONE brings down an aircraft full of people between now and then, disregard everything above. The overreaction to kill the drone industry will crush us all...


That makes good sense to me and you are 100% correct in that if a drone is responsible for taking down an airliner and killing people the drone industry comes to an end from that day forward. There are too many people that don't want drones and too many in the media that get a hardon reporting about drone issues.

The more likely collision is between a drone and a helicopter but even there the loss of life will poison the industry.

We have idiots here that think an impact could never happen because the AC produces a pressure wave that will prevent an impact -- tell that to all the pilots that have had bird strikes.

Can you give me a ballpark for the cost in time and money for ground school? How long min/ave/max does it take and how much min/ave/max does it cost?


Brian
 
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That makes good sense to me and you are 100% correct in that if a drone is responsible for taking down an airliner and killing people the drone industry comes to an end from that day forward. There are too many people that don't want drones and too many in the media that get a hardon reporting about drone issues.

The more likely collision is between a drone and a helicopter but even there the loss of life will poison the industry.

We have idiots here that think an impact could never happen because the AC produces a pressure wave that will prevent an impact -- tell there to all the pilots that have had bird strikes.

Can you give me a ballpark for the cost in time and money for ground school? How long min/ave/max does it take and how much min/ave/max does it cost?


Brian
Brian,

There are many online ground school courses that have sprouted on the internet and labeled UAV FAA Operator courses (how the heck do they know what the FAA operator test will look like?). They don't, but like I did (as a holder of a commercial pilot's license) they can make an educated guess. I am taking this one UAV Ground School, Drone Pilot FAA Certification as a refresher course (it's actually pretty good ($250 and you can access it for 2 years) I am not endorsing any product, here's another .

Things sure have changed. I recall when I started flying lessons in 1969 we sat in a musty old hangar at the local airport, with a grumpy old flight instructor and a chalkboard. Today, everything is online...I guess I'm showing my age.
 
This is the single greatest statement ever made on this and PP forum.

I take most of these threads very comically. Perfect example is the other day a user had an issue with his equipment and I posted a screen shot from the manufacturer describing how to fix the problem, shortly after another member post how this is wrong information and goes into his usual speal about this and that.

Dual pilot problems, what antenas to boost.
 
Thanks for the recommendations on ground school gents. I'm going to try and complete that this summer.

Another topic I've seen come up

like in this article The cheapest way to get a drone license is to take hot air balloon lessons

Is whether a hot ballon license would land me a 333. Seems much cheaper than a pilot's license.
That has nothing to do with getting a 333 exemption and neither does getting a pilot's license. The best way I can think to clarify this is to say that a 333 exemption allows you to hire a licensed pilot to operate a drone under your business entity. The holder does not need to be a licensed pilot, only the PIC. This makes sense to me since I could be an entrepreneur that knows how to find a market for services, but who has no interest in actually flying the sUAS's. If the 333 holder and PIC are one and the same then you'll need both, but see my final paragraph.

I had never seen the hot air balloon idea, but it appears to be valid. You end up with a PPL, and your rating would restrict you to the lighter-than-air category, but if you don't want to fly a plane, then who cares?

Bottom line is that you should file for your 333 right now since you (and just about everyone else) qualify for that, and when you earn your PPL, you'll be totally legal to act as your own PIC. Don't wait until you get your PPL to file for the 333 - you are just pushing everything at least 4 months further out than necessary.
 
That makes good sense to me and you are 100% correct in that if a drone is responsible for taking down an airliner and killing people the drone industry comes to an end from that day forward. There are too many people that don't want drones and too many in the media that get a hardon reporting about drone issues.

The more likely collision is between a drone and a helicopter but even there the loss of life will poison the industry.

We have idiots here that think an impact could never happen because the AC produces a pressure wave that will prevent an impact -- tell there to all the pilots that have had bird strikes.

Can you give me a ballpark for the cost in time and money for ground school? How long min/ave/max does it take and how much min/ave/max does it cost?


Brian
Ground school is probably the best way to learn aeronautical knowledge because of the exchange of questions and answers, but you could also look into the Jepp Private Pilot book (GFD Private Pilot Textbook: Jeppesen: 9780884871125: Amazon.com: Books) being sure to get the latest edition, and the excellent King Schools DVD courses. Here's a link to the written only product for Private Pilot: King Schools Assuming that the written for sUAS would be a subset of the private pilot knowledge, this is a course just for the written portion of a Sport Pilot License: King Schools


Another must-have resource, but again, as this post ages it will be important to make sure you have the very latest edition: FAR/AIM 2016 eBundle: Federal Aviation Regulations/Aeronautical Information Manual (FAR/AIM series): Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)/Aviation Supplies & Academics (ASA): 9781619542969: Amazon.com: Books

Notice there is no gobble-de-gook in the URLs - I'm not an affiliate of either of them, just trying to point you to some high quality information.
 
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If anyone is shocked if the final rule for Part 107 still requires at least a sport pilot license, some of the comments found in various threads might help explain. Take this thread for example: Flying over Crowds

Careless reading and translation of a recommendation that fails to recognize the nuance in the language is exactly the sort of casual attitude that makes it worrisome to allow operators to fly commercially based on a simple knowledge test, especially if it is an online open book exam. If you have earned an airman certificate, you have flown thousands of feet above the ground with your living and breathing body onboard - and that demands a very serious minded person who has learned that the rules and regs are carefully crafted for very good reasons. No licensed pilot ever thinks "how can I get around this or that regulation" or decides that a given regulation is overly burdensome and is thereby safely ignored.

Pilots also know about "get-there-itis" and how to properly assess and mitigate risk when making the go/no-go decision. That ability to recognize and respond to significant risk factors, rather than rationalize and ignore them would become very important for a commercial drone operator. A client offers you a job worth $2,000, but it must be shot by the end of day tomorrow. That is a serious impediment to making decisions purely based on safety factors and compliance regs, and I don't think reading about risk management is equivalent to the experience base of a pilot who may have to accept the extreme inconvenience of cancelling a planned flight - such as the return leg of a day trip.

I was one who at first thought it was crazy that what is okay for a recreational drone flyer, was not okay for a commercial operator, the argument being if we are both flying above a house taking pictures, how can that be safe for one person but not for the other person doing exactly the same thing? Again, I think it has to do with motivational factors. The hobbyist can easily decide it's too windy, and that it's not worth losing her $1,000 drone or crashing into the neighbors house. Enter money into the equation, and I think it's another matter, and the cost of the drone is not as weighty for a commercial operator who is making a profit from it and can cost-justify its replacement. As well, commercial operators are going to be operating in unfamiliar environs on a regular basis, which also raises the level of risk and opportunity for human error.

Watching some of the drone videos on youtube is a good reminder that there are some real boneheads out there. It's not about the different level of skill required to fly a plane vs. a drone - it's about a mindset and seriousness of purpose that is demanded when flying a plane that might be a good pre-requisite for flying a drone for commercial purposes.

Its just like what happened in Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) you used to have to take a test and know Morse Code. They dropped that off all the testing and now you have turned ham radio into CB Radio.. Foul mouthed idiots, people who don't know how to solder etc etc... My point is you need to keep the weeds out and trust me there is a lot of weeds that need to be killed off with all that is going on in the drone world these days.
 
Do you think you should obtain an A/P license to perform any maintenance on a UAV? What about avionics & a FCC endorsement for work on anything that emits radio frequency?

It took me a little over 2 years to obatin my A/P license and FCC license with an endorsement. That was in 91-93' and costs more than a private pilots license.

I think the whole point & attraction to the UAV's was the absence of the FAA's presence & consequently the high cost of entry. Since the FAA creation they have set a goal without moderation or consideration to the economic impact it may have. 'Safety' without consideration is an obessesion. What's the point of safety when there's no one that can afford it? The FAA has, without the direct intention, financially restricted aviation to the point that even the esosterically rich are reconsidering private aviation. That's a fundamental change from a generation ago, that said, "it doesn't matter how much the airplane cost to operate."

So with the costs so high corp/general aviation industry is at the lowest it's ever been. The FAA restricts while Congress injects the funds necessary to keep the industry in existence, at least enough for their hometown to keep the runway open so they can land a corp. jet there. Wonder why?

The FAA isn't your friend, nor an entity you could reason with... It's an unreliable machine & likewise when you learn how to operate it you can work for you, but it will fail at some point & will bite in the process. My advice is to stay out of it's way, the less you have to deal with it the better & if you're caught in it's grasp for whatever reason, consider it rape.... Relax and enjoy it.

Nietzsche
 
Do you think you should obtain an A/P license to perform any maintenance on a UAV? What about avionics & a FCC endorsement for work on anything that emits radio frequency?

It took me a little over 2 years to obatin my A/P license and FCC license with an endorsement. That was in 91-93' and costs more than a private pilots license.

I think the whole point & attraction to the UAV's was the absence of the FAA's presence & consequently the high cost of entry. Since the FAA creation they have set a goal without moderation or consideration to the economic impact it may have. 'Safety' without consideration is an obessesion. What's the point of safety when there's no one that can afford it? The FAA has, without the direct intention, financially restricted aviation to the point that even the esosterically rich are reconsidering private aviation. That's a fundamental change from a generation ago, that said, "it doesn't matter how much the airplane cost to operate."

So with the costs so high corp/general aviation industry is at the lowest it's ever been. The FAA restricts while Congress injects the funds necessary to keep the industry in existence, at least enough for their hometown to keep the runway open so they can land a corp. jet there. Wonder why?

The FAA isn't your friend, nor an entity you could reason with... It's an unreliable machine & likewise when you learn how to operate it you can work for you, but it will fail at some point & will bite in the process. My advice is to stay out of it's way, the less you have to deal with it the better & if you're caught in it's grasp for whatever reason, consider it rape.... Relax and enjoy it.

Nietzsche

Sorry but I find it very unsafe to let 80% of these people posting videos of there so called professional drone flights on you tube, vimeo or whatever, fly in air space with GA, part 103, and commercial airlines running around without having certain licenses and testing that's under the guise of the FAA and FCC. Just look at the drone racing that's all over the place now, hardly any of these people have a proper ham license to be legally operating on the fpv frequencies. Everyone thinks they have something coming to them for nothing. You need to follow the rules and trust me there is going to be rules for commercial drone operations in the united states some will like it some wont but the bottom line is if you are breaking the law your going to pay. I myself will be glad to see it. However if you want to be in an RC club and join the AMA and fly at the club as a hobby then you should be able to do that without harm to the hobby. Thats also a big issue going on today within the RC community.
 
I crashed 4 phantoms in public who got hurt? No one
How many crashed drones in public? Numerous
Sports pilot license I don't need it nor is the faa gone require me to obtain 1 to fly in public. Flying a drone and a plane is not the same thing.
Employees and employers always interpret contracts differently that's why we have arbitrators.
4???? Hehe must be rich
 
As a hobbyist today you can fly a drone over a Ny state prison legally and stand your ground! Wise decision no!
The way I interpreted things the faa is against hobbyist being required to obtain a sports pilots license its ridiculous. Never going to happen too many drones to be sold.
So now the faa is trying to see how to safely implement flight over populated areas. Drone weights 4lb they can live with a severed eye just not a severed head in public.
If you crash a dji drone you're an idiot how easy can it be. The kill switch will be addressed dji fix that csc kill switch.
Certainly agree, the pilots requirement is nuts.
 
If anyone is shocked if the final rule for Part 107 still requires at least a sport pilot license, some of the comments found in various threads might help explain. Take this thread for example: Flying over Crowds

Careless reading and translation of a recommendation that fails to recognize the nuance in the language is exactly the sort of casual attitude that makes it worrisome to allow operators to fly commercially based on a simple knowledge test, especially if it is an online open book exam. If you have earned an airman certificate, you have flown thousands of feet above the ground with your living and breathing body onboard - and that demands a very serious minded person who has learned that the rules and regs are carefully crafted for very good reasons. No licensed pilot ever thinks "how can I get around this or that regulation" or decides that a given regulation is overly burdensome and is thereby safely ignored.

Pilots also know about "get-there-itis" and how to properly assess and mitigate risk when making the go/no-go decision. That ability to recognize and respond to significant risk factors, rather than rationalize and ignore them would become very important for a commercial drone operator. A client offers you a job worth $2,000, but it must be shot by the end of day tomorrow. That is a serious impediment to making decisions purely based on safety factors and compliance regs, and I don't think reading about risk management is equivalent to the experience base of a pilot who may have to accept the extreme inconvenience of cancelling a planned flight - such as the return leg of a day trip.

I was one who at first thought it was crazy that what is okay for a recreational drone flyer, was not okay for a commercial operator, the argument being if we are both flying above a house taking pictures, how can that be safe for one person but not for the other person doing exactly the same thing? Again, I think it has to do with motivational factors. The hobbyist can easily decide it's too windy, and that it's not worth losing her $1,000 drone or crashing into the neighbors house. Enter money into the equation, and I think it's another matter, and the cost of the drone is not as weighty for a commercial operator who is making a profit from it and can cost-justify its replacement. As well, commercial operators are going to be operating in unfamiliar environs on a regular basis, which also raises the level of risk and opportunity for human error.

Watching some of the drone videos on youtube is a good reminder that there are some real boneheads out there. It's not about the different level of skill required to fly a plane vs. a drone - it's about a mindset and seriousness of purpose that is demanded when flying a plane that might be a good pre-requisite for flying a drone for commercial purposes.


While I understand your rational, I don't think having a license makes you any more responsible. If you do something stupid, a piece of paper won't stop an idiot from doing something stupid. Bad decisions are made by people not capable of making good decisions.


Mark
 
First off I pay the cost to be the boss:D
@King Reubz but I want buy a junkie x5:p
I might've thrown some good money at bad money but it's just a quad hobby.

I agree, I threw a lot of good money away for GoPro Stock when it was pretty high! Lets see what my bad money left will buy when GoPro comes out with somethin
While I understand your rational, I don't think having a license makes you any more responsible. If you do something stupid, a piece of paper won't stop an idiot from doing something stupid. Bad decisions are made by people not capable of making good decisions.


Mark

Having a pilots license may or may not not make you more responsible. It will make some one think about what you are about to do, the FAA has the authority to suspend or revoke your pilots license if one were to do something irresponsible. That would be a huge financial reason to not to something stupid.
 
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I have a question for y'all! Well 2! What is the definition of commercial pertaining to 333?
Where would a municipality owned utility fit into the great scheme of the 333?
Background: The utility is part of local government. Will be using the drone for substation infrared transformer readings (No persons other than pilot of drone and engineer on premise. Max height 85 feet ). Inspection of right of ways (no houses, or people will be in locations that are flown over for vegetation growth. Max height 80 feet). Inspection of down lines after a storm (very rural, mountainous locations that actually put our employees at risk when a section has to be walked. No homes flown over or people.Max height 80 feet). These are the primary applications that the drones would be applied to.
Currently the FAA said that the utility would have to apply for the 333. They state that what we are going to do with the drones are a civil application even though we are a government entity. Nothing owned by the utility can go out for hire period. Since the utility owns the drones and employees will be flying them in situations that poses 0 threat to the general public, this does not make any sense to me.

.
 

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