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USA Verifying Part 107 Operators

Yes, I can see your point. As long as it didn't give out addresses or numbers I would be fine with that.
 
I could certainly see the FAA, at some point in the future, putting up some kind of Joe-Q-Public-friendly form on their website where anyone can check if an operator (or even a given operation) is legit. You give up certain privacy rights for the privilege of the rights of your airman certificate...

Then that brings up the question, what about Part 111 (e.g. AMA hobby flyers)? I can't see the AMA doing anything like that for reasons of privacy of their members. You can't look up an AMA member's number by name and state/address, for example.

Cheers
 
You must have a LOT more time on your hands than I do.

I've never seen or met a single successful businessperson that makes a habit of running around telling on everyone else that breaks the rules. They're far too busy building their business and working to worry about it. Let the quality of your work speak for you.

If there's a safety issue, I'll be the first to report it. If I think someone's operating commercially without the proper certificate, I'd much rather try to gently educate (if the time/opportunity presents itself) than sit back and surreptitiously report them to the FAA. If they ignore the education attempt or if I don't get a chance to try, I'd just drop it.

Do you make sure your neighbor pays all of his taxes too? Call the building department if he fails to pull a permit to move an outlet in his house? Call the HOA if his trash cans are out an hour too long?
 
You must have a LOT more time on your hands than I do.

I've never seen or met a single successful businessperson that makes a habit of running around telling on everyone else that breaks the rules. They're far too busy building their business and working to worry about it. Let the quality of your work speak for you.

If there's a safety issue, I'll be the first to report it. If I think someone's operating commercially without the proper certificate, I'd much rather try to gently educate (if the time/opportunity presents itself) than sit back and surreptitiously report them to the FAA. If they ignore the education attempt or if I don't get a chance to try, I'd just drop it.

Do you make sure your neighbor pays all of his taxes too? Call the building department if he fails to pull a permit to move an outlet in his house? Call the HOA if his trash cans are out an hour too long?

Yay!

This thread was giving me the creeps.

I try to stay in my lane, be honest, under promise and over deliver, follow the rules, and provide excellent customer service.

It's not even a tiny bit of my business what anyone else with a drone is doing with it.
 
You must have a LOT more time on your hands than I do.

I've never seen or met a single successful businessperson that makes a habit of running around telling on everyone else that breaks the rules. They're far too busy building their business and working to worry about it. Let the quality of your work speak for you.

If there's a safety issue, I'll be the first to report it. If I think someone's operating commercially without the proper certificate, I'd much rather try to gently educate (if the time/opportunity presents itself) than sit back and surreptitiously report them to the FAA. If they ignore the education attempt or if I don't get a chance to try, I'd just drop it.

Do you make sure your neighbor pays all of his taxes too? Call the building department if he fails to pull a permit to move an outlet in his house? Call the HOA if his trash cans are out an hour too long?

I used to have the same stance as you did until somewhat recently. I don't want to get into it in depth for sake of time, but looking at everything via hindsight I am glad I started reporting illegal operators and I wish I had done it sooner. I was already successful, but it has increased my revenue significantly and improved the local industry for me and my legitimate competition. I know what my time is worth, and a quick email to my local FAA office is worth $1000s. It's not a waste of time by any stretch.

To address the other questions, I've received a warning for my trash cans before so one of my neighbors reported me. When I was on the fence about reporting my illegal competition to the FAA, I asked some of my trusted business friends for their opinion. The three I asked, a landscaper, a plumber, and a general contractor all told me I would be an idiot not to and that they all take time to report projects without proper permits. All of these guys are very successful.

You can look at it however you like but there is certainly nothing unethical about reporting illegal activity.
 
I've received a warning for my trash cans before so one of my neighbors reported me.

Yeah... and that neighbor was a jerk. It's an unfortunate situation we're in as a society that we've been conditioned to "tell on" anyone we feel is doing something wrong... whether or not it's A) our business or B) affecting us in any way. This tendency is one of the reasons that people get child services called on them because they let their 10 year old kid play in the park next door or their 13 year old hang out at home after school.

You can look at it however you like but there is certainly nothing unethical about reporting illegal activity.

I don't think it's unethical at all...

I think it IS petty. I look at it the same way I look at the kid who always told the teacher when someone was doing something wrong whether it affected him or not.

As someone who's the child of two teachers, I can tell you that even the teachers don't like that guy.
 
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I personally don't mind trash cans at the end of the drive way. But because I moved into a neighborhood where they do, I should be considerate of that. The neighbor wasn't being a jerk for reporting me, I was for ignoring his and everyone else's simple request.

As good a point as I make, an HOA or a classroom has nothing to do with FAA regulations and business ethics and should not be compared. I feel like if you look at the two the 'same way' you do not take business or drone operation serious enough.

And I am sure you take it very seriously, but even still,

in my experience illegal operators often offer lower prices, impossible prices, because they have chosen to ignore regulation and fail to understand the great risk they represent to themselves and their clients, and they have put themselves first above everyone else in the industry.

All of these operators are operating with the 'it won't happen to me' mentality, and when it does, they're in very very deep, and often go out of business.

When it doesn't, they may have managed to earn themselves a living, but at the cost of many hardworking, considerate people who are just obeying the law. Some of them may even have gone out of business. When your illegal operation is costing my family it's future, it is very much my business.

And it is also incredibly, unbelievably selfish.

True story:

In one month, I lost about $3500 to an illegal operator, who priced two large jobs out at $400 a piece. The quality of my work didn't matter, and yes, the difference between mine and his was worlds apart. After I learned this, I thought long and hard about reporting him, and I decided to do it. He was the first person I ever reported. I was surprised at how easy it was and not long after, his facebook page became inactive and his website went down, and I know for a fact he went back to his old job. The following month, the same people who didn't go with me before hired me, they saw an enormous response from the work I did for them, and they have been my clients ever since. Over the lifetime of that client, I have earned around 15 grand this year alone.

These same people also said that after using the other guy and not getting any response from his work they were convinced drone photography and video was just ineffective marketing. The only reason they hired me on the third project was because he was no longer available and they had already promised their client they would include drone footage.

Good competition is always good, but not only do illegal operators hurt themselves, they hurt the families around them and the industry's reputation as a whole.

I realize the idea of 'it's not your business' is deeply rooted in many, but I truly believe this idea is only held by people who operate illegally themselves.

Reporting the the FAA takes a fraction of the time this post did. Sorry but I won't reply at any decent length.
 
I personally don't mind trash cans at the end of the drive way. But because I moved into a neighborhood where they do, I should be considerate of that. The neighbor wasn't being a jerk for reporting me, I was for ignoring his and everyone else's simple request.

Actually, having lived in HOAs that care and actually talking to people... the majority of the neighborhood really doesn't give a crap if your cans are out for an extra hour. But there's always that one guy.

As good a point as I make, an HOA or a classroom has nothing to do with FAA regulations and business ethics and should not be compared. I feel like if you look at the two the 'same way' you do not take business or drone operation serious enough.

And I am sure you take it very seriously, but even still,

Oh, I take it very seriously. I also have no problem at all reporting unsafe operators. None. Aside from that, I'd rather let the market decide than tell on someone.

And again you throw out the "ethics" thing. There's nothing ethically wrong with reporting people for flying without the proper licensing. It's just kind of a jerky thing to do without first making an attempt at educating them.

in my experience illegal operators often offer lower prices, impossible prices, because they have chosen to ignore regulation and fail to understand the great risk they represent to themselves and their clients, and they have put themselves first above everyone else in the industry.

All of these operators are operating with the 'it won't happen to me' mentality, and when it does, they're in very very deep, and often go out of business.

Just because someone paid $150 and took a test doesn't really make them any safer in the long run. There's a lot more to operating on the up-and-up than getting your Part 107 certificate. A buck-fifty isn't really much overhead at all... and I've seen at least a few operators around here who have their certificate and nothing else... no insurance, none of the other stuff that makes you a legitimate business, and no common sense. They're far more "risk" than a guy doing real estate jobs for $50 with his Phantom.

When it doesn't, they may have managed to earn themselves a living, but at the cost of many hardworking, considerate people who are just obeying the law. Some of them may even have gone out of business. When your illegal operation is costing my family it's future, it is very much my business.

I know this is going to come as a shock... but you're not owed business as a "legitimate" operator. It's not a zero-sum game here. Every dollar someone else makes isn't a dollar out of your pocket. Sometimes it's a dollar that would never have entered the market at your price point. Sometimes that underbid illegal flight (with a sub-par result) leads to the client looking for someone better the next time.

True story:

In one month, I lost about $3500 to an illegal operator, who priced two large jobs out at $400 a piece. The quality of my work didn't matter, and yes, the difference between mine and his was worlds apart. After I learned this, I thought long and hard about reporting him, and I decided to do it. He was the first person I ever reported. I was surprised at how easy it was and not long after, his facebook page became inactive and his website went down, and I know for a fact he went back to his old job. The following month, the same people who didn't go with me before hired me, they saw an enormous response from the work I did for them, and they have been my clients ever since. Over the lifetime of that client, I have earned around 15 grand this year alone.

These same people also said that after using the other guy and not getting any response from his work they were convinced drone photography and video was just ineffective marketing. The only reason they hired me on the third project was because he was no longer available and they had already promised their client they would include drone footage.

That sounds more like a failure of your marketing and client relations than a case for reporting unlicensed operators. You got a second chance at it because you reported him... but that doesn't change the fact that you failed the first time to show why your work was better.

I'll also note that someone who got the certificate and shot the job for $400 could ALSO have made a mess of it. For some reason you've confused "unlicensed" with "not very good." There are examples both ways that disprove this.

I've seen licensed guys who are hacks.
I've seen unlicensed guys who are awesome.

I've seen cheap licensed guys. (there's a licensed guy in my area doing shoots for $50 TOTAL)
I've seen expensive unlicensed guys. (though this is becoming less of an issue because the bar is so low for licensing)

The point is, the bar isn't very high to become licensed... so it's hard to take your "they're taking money out of the mouths of my darling children" argument seriously. Are they winning jobs with lower bids? Maybe... but they're also more likely going after jobs that were never yours to begin with because they're so far below your price point.

More likely than these nefarious, selfish underground drone operators, you're reporting a guy who's just trying it out to see if it's something he wants to pursue further... or someone who really doesn't know any better. In either case, he's largely not hurting you. In the latter case, you're missing an opportunity to walk up, introduce yourself, and do some outreach and education. If your goal is truly safety (rather than sour grapes), that's an opportunity that should REALLY appeal to you.

Good competition is always good, but not only do illegal operators hurt themselves, they hurt the families around them and the industry's reputation as a whole.

Again, I think you're looking at this wrong... just because a poor college student pirates a copy of Photoshop doesn't mean Adobe lost out on $600. That sale was never going to happen. Not every job done by someone else is lost money to YOUR business. Especially when the price points are vastly different. For every story like your "true story" above, there are probably a hundred where the client would have never bought drone video if it cost $3500. That business wasn't yours any more than business you've signed is mine.

I realize the idea of 'it's not your business' is deeply rooted in many, but I truly believe this idea is only held by people who operate illegally themselves.

Yeah, that's a really silly assumption.

Reporting the the FAA takes a fraction of the time this post did. Sorry but I won't reply at any decent length.

You said that before.
 
My 2 cents, for what it's worth... These aren't trash cans sitting on the ground... they are flying weed-whackers/lawnmowers and if they drop out of the air, they can seriously injure people or property. Safety needs to be respected and paramount. An Inspire ditching onto a busy roadway or a crowd can do a lot of damage. Am I going to ask for someone's AMA card or pilot card? No, but obviously unsafe operations should ALWAYS be reported, and if I see some knucklehead with a Phantom overflying a playground with kids running around or an active roadway with traffic and no obvious security cordon, you betcha I'll call the nearby FSO.

I don't look at this as "tattling". I'm coming at this from a point of view less of worry about unlicensed/unknowlegeable operators stealing business because they have "lower overhead" than I do, but rather from a strict safety-of-the-public/NAS and property standpoint. But to each, his own! You mileage may vary, etc...

Cheers
 
My 2 cents, for what it's worth... These aren't trash cans sitting on the ground... they are flying weed-whackers/lawnmowers and if they drop out of the air, they can seriously injure people or property. Safety needs to be respected and paramount. An Inspire ditching onto a busy roadway or a crowd can do a lot of damage. Am I going to ask for someone's AMA card or pilot card? No, but obviously unsafe operations should ALWAYS be reported, and if I see some knucklehead with a Phantom overflying a playground with kids running around or an active roadway with traffic and no obvious security cordon, you betcha I'll call the nearby FSO.

I don't look at this as "tattling". I'm coming at this from a point of view less of worry about unlicensed/unknowlegeable operators stealing business because they have "lower overhead" than I do, but rather from a strict safety-of-the-public/NAS and property standpoint. But to each, his own! You mileage may vary, etc...

Cheers

Again, like I said before... if there's a safety issue I think it's our responsibility to report it. I agree with reporting unsafe operations (license or not) 100%.

But reporting a guy just because he doesn't have a license and underbid you? That's pretty jerky.
 
Whatever floats your boat.

I find it pretty funny that you were bragging in another thread about passing the test without studying or really knowing much about airspace (probably most important part of the test for operating safely/legally in the NAS) prior to sitting for the exam.

I passed with an 80% with little to no studying. I only reviewed the study guide available on the FAA website the night before. A lot of airspace questions but if you're observant you can figure out the right answers without knowing too much before hand.

Tell us again how "seriously" you're taking this...
 
I am sorry if my reporting illegal operators bothered you so much.

Nah, that didn't bother me all that much.

What really bothered me was your insinuation that because I don't run around trying to sneakily report anyone I think is operating without a license that I'm A) probably also operating illegally (I'm not) and B) not taking this seriously.

Seriously man, if you don't have the guts to confront these people directly you should probably just mind your own business. This "I don't want them to know I reported them" thing indicates that you know you're doing something kind of slimy.

If you can't bother to attach your name to the report, your motives probably aren't nearly as noble as you make them sound when you justify it.
 
One reason I wanted to find a better way to check if someone is licensed is because I have called or spoken with these people. and as you can imagine, they aren't too happy with me inquiring and get incredibly defensive.

All my reports to the FAA include my name and address.

I will continue to report illegal operators, as is common practice in other industries.
 
Well, first I think it would be difficult (at least at this stage) to ascertain whether a given operator even IS licensed, other that to confront them and ask for their Cert or AMA card --- and then if they're smart, they tell you to GFYS. If they have their FAA Registration on the vehicle you could take note and look it up that way. But... even if you happen to know them personally, how do you know whether they're operating under Part 101 or Part 107?

Cheers
 
Well, first I think it would be difficult (at least at this stage) to ascertain whether a given operator even IS licensed, other that to confront them and ask for their Cert or AMA card --- and then if they're smart, they tell you to GFYS. If they have their FAA Registration on the vehicle you could take note and look it up that way. But... even if you happen to know them personally, how do you know whether they're operating under Part 101 or Part 107?

Exactly. Especially since it's possible to opt out of the FAA's airman database.
 
One reason I wanted to find a better way to check if someone is licensed is because I have called or spoken with these people. and as you can imagine, they aren't too happy with me inquiring and get incredibly defensive.

Shocker. You mean to say someone doesn't like you minding their business? I'm SHOCKED.

What's your full name? I want to look up your certificate.

All my reports to the FAA include my name and address.

So? That doesn't refute my point at all. If you can't say something to the subject's face, you should think long and hard about whether or not you should be saying it at all.

I will continue to report illegal operators, as is common practice in other industries.

Ok.
 

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