I fly an inspire 2 with the 5s camera and am wondering what the drawback would be with me changing my aperture setting to around F16 or so on a sunny day rather than using a ND filter? I’m very interested to hear if this approach is sensible. Feedback is appreciated.
Are ND filters really necessary?
- Thread starter Martycox51
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If it is bright enough, F/16 won't get your shutter speed to the desired 1/60 or 1/50.
Most M43 lenses are not at their sharpest at F/16; reviews I have read say F/4.5 to F/5.0 is the sharpest.
Most M43 lenses are not at their sharpest at F/16; reviews I have read say F/4.5 to F/5.0 is the sharpest.
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ND's are necessary for quality video. As Intermurph said the sweet spot for sharpness is in the 4.5 range +/-. At f16 you will most likely see every bit of dust that has not been removed from the sensor and will make all video unusable. ND filters are easy to find online and reasonably priced. Firecrest, B+W are a couple of quality filters to look at.
Drone Film Guide on Youtube have some great videos and they have one regarding ND's as well
I've watched this video a couple of times and did done testing. It is spot on. I never use ND filters.... unless I really need to
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No - His 'advice' is wrong right from the start. Using an ND filter to achieve a shutter speed of 2 x frame rate is not the only reason to use an ND.
ND's are used to bring exposure into the correct area or sweet spot of the lens as well. So when he says they are not used to control exposure he is talking utter rubbish.
What lens within the budget of The Inspire1 or 2 do you know of that is at its sharpest wide open or at F16 or higher?
The idiot who made this video has probably never heard of diffraction or the fact that light can act both as a particle as well as a wave.
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I fully appreciate if you have better knowledge on the subject than the individual in the video but I'm sure there is a better way of conveying the message than calling him names. I enjoy his videos, as do many others as I am still learning and I would enjoy learning his mistakes if more knowledgeable people like yourself pointed out his errors but doing so in this method seems a bit harsh in my opinion.
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What annoys me with these self proclaimed so called YouTube 'experts' is they propagate their 'advice' but get it factually incorrect.
Others who may not have a full understanding of a particular subject then follow or take on board what these individuals are sprouting even if it is wrong.
If someone is going to make a YouTube 'Information' video at least make sure it is factually accurate.
I do not suffer fools gladly and if I see bad advice being given out I will call it - That's me. If that upsets sensitive souls then I apologise.
Not at all sensitive, just respectful. Thanks for the information.
Been wanting to get out and try my Polar Pros on my I2 with X5S and 45mm, it's -18ºC here today. I'm hoping my ND32 will be sufficient as we are now covered in snow.
Been wanting to get out and try my Polar Pros on my I2 with X5S and 45mm, it's -18ºC here today. I'm hoping my ND32 will be sufficient as we are now covered in snow.
In my experience controlling motion blur is important for natural looking video. Optimal sharpness is also a consideration and as mentioned the middle of the lens ~f5.6 is generally sharpest. Test your gear and note your own results. More important is that high shutter speeds can increase jello or image wobble, which is impossible to repair. Video can look like you are looking thru hot air over a fire.
- Shooting Video: ND filters help bring your shutter speed into the motion sweet spot. ND filters help reduce the possibility of jello.
- Shooting Stills: ND filters help bring your shutter speed to the optimal aperture to control focus. Overall sharpness is not the only variable. Depth of Focus is also important if flying close to a subject you want to separate from the background or hyperfocus everything.
with stills the ND filters aren't as important, you can control your exposure with your shutter speed as well as your aperture.
the exception might be if your using graduated filters to try and balance your dynamic range (keep detail in the sky as well as the ground), which I haven't seen yet on a drone but I wont say they don't exist
with video, ND filters play a much bigger role as you kinda want to set your shutter speed to twice your frame rate, so that leaves you with ISO and aperture to control your exposure, or just aperture if your using DLOG (ISO is set to an unchangeable 500).
every lens has an optimum aperture for maximum sharpness. if you stop it down too much to F16 then everything starts getting soft, and generally just doesn't look as good. for starting out theres a handy variable ND filter you can get to experiment with for fairly cheap. itll probably soften your image some bit because the glass isn't great, but youll start to see the advantage once you start using it. when your happy enough with it then you can go ahead and invest in a kit of ND filters.
the exception might be if your using graduated filters to try and balance your dynamic range (keep detail in the sky as well as the ground), which I haven't seen yet on a drone but I wont say they don't exist
with video, ND filters play a much bigger role as you kinda want to set your shutter speed to twice your frame rate, so that leaves you with ISO and aperture to control your exposure, or just aperture if your using DLOG (ISO is set to an unchangeable 500).
every lens has an optimum aperture for maximum sharpness. if you stop it down too much to F16 then everything starts getting soft, and generally just doesn't look as good. for starting out theres a handy variable ND filter you can get to experiment with for fairly cheap. itll probably soften your image some bit because the glass isn't great, but youll start to see the advantage once you start using it. when your happy enough with it then you can go ahead and invest in a kit of ND filters.
If you want your video to look more like film, you use an ND. If you use too high of a shutter speed with video, you start to introduce jello and flicker (unless you make sure shutter speed is a multiple of FPS).
As my dearly departed father (God rest his soul) was fond of saying..."all generalizations are dangerous. Even this one." That being said all sensors are subject to internal reflections between the sensor and the rear element of the lens. We were shooting with our new RED and were aghast to see an array of red dots on the image. I showed them to a DP who uses all manner of high end cameras and was told that all digital cameras have the issue. It shows up when two things happen. 1) a bright point light source shines directly into the lens. The sun does this nicely. 2) you are stopped down past F8. I tested it, and it's true. So the ND's are what get you to the F8 safe zone reflection wise. And as noted here, you lens is likely sharper in that area than it would be at F16. As to the motion blur you get from using a 180 degree shutter, that's a matter of personal taste.
It has also been my experience that higher shutter speeds, like over 1/200 will magnify any issues you have with your gimbal. Search these forums and you'll find lots of talk about gimbal vibration. DJI replaced our X5s for this reason. On it we could not shoot much above 1/100th before the jello created by the dicey gimbal made the image unusable with jello scanning from top to bottom on our image.
So...yes, get and use ND's
It has also been my experience that higher shutter speeds, like over 1/200 will magnify any issues you have with your gimbal. Search these forums and you'll find lots of talk about gimbal vibration. DJI replaced our X5s for this reason. On it we could not shoot much above 1/100th before the jello created by the dicey gimbal made the image unusable with jello scanning from top to bottom on our image.
So...yes, get and use ND's
Sorry, I shoot professionally for vey discriminating directors and DPs and if they ever saw me rock my Fstop up above f8 or shot at any shutter speed that wasn't douple framerate (unless shooting slowmo or for some other VFX Reason) I would be thrown off set. The moderator is not being rude, he is outraged about such bad advice. The guy in the video is an idiot..
My 2 cents
My 2 cents
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Hope this help someone, its just my opinion I'm a professional cinematographer & stills photographer, and no to control depth of field is not the main reason, OK to put it in simple terms,
We as camera persons have been asking forever for cameras that produce great picture in low light, fast lenses & fast sensors so now the cameras are able to shoot in light so low that years ago it would just be a black noisey screen the result of this is that when you take these cameras outside into bright sunlight there is way too much light getting in the camera for it work correctly, All high end video cameras have built in ND wheels with at least 3 ND filters to choose from.
OK you move from a controlled set to outdoors, daylight the first thing you do is apply ND filters to the point that the f-stop you are using outside is exactly the same as you were using indoors or the look of the images would be completely different & not match. Just 2 points, car wheels spin backwards everything is so sharp its unnatural & jarring.
You would NEVER wind the shutter up on a professional camera or shoot to adjust the exposure, as someone mention earlier you would be kicked of the set never to work again. There is a sweet spot for the lens & the sensor to work if the the camera does not have built in ND filter you must put one on the lens. The shutter speed should be double the frame rate, usually the best setting for the lens is not wide open or shut down completely its in the middle f-stop. if you get both of these right most of the problems like jello or flat washed out images will never appear. Of course there are time you want super sharp (stopped down) or shallow depth of field (wide open) these are option you can choose to suite the style your after.
Anyway this is what I have learnt from many years in the industry & it always produces constantly great images, this is just the exposure side there is so much more to photography than the technical means of achieving correctly exposed images and once you get this right you can really start to enjoy the art.
We as camera persons have been asking forever for cameras that produce great picture in low light, fast lenses & fast sensors so now the cameras are able to shoot in light so low that years ago it would just be a black noisey screen the result of this is that when you take these cameras outside into bright sunlight there is way too much light getting in the camera for it work correctly, All high end video cameras have built in ND wheels with at least 3 ND filters to choose from.
OK you move from a controlled set to outdoors, daylight the first thing you do is apply ND filters to the point that the f-stop you are using outside is exactly the same as you were using indoors or the look of the images would be completely different & not match. Just 2 points, car wheels spin backwards everything is so sharp its unnatural & jarring.
You would NEVER wind the shutter up on a professional camera or shoot to adjust the exposure, as someone mention earlier you would be kicked of the set never to work again. There is a sweet spot for the lens & the sensor to work if the the camera does not have built in ND filter you must put one on the lens. The shutter speed should be double the frame rate, usually the best setting for the lens is not wide open or shut down completely its in the middle f-stop. if you get both of these right most of the problems like jello or flat washed out images will never appear. Of course there are time you want super sharp (stopped down) or shallow depth of field (wide open) these are option you can choose to suite the style your after.
Anyway this is what I have learnt from many years in the industry & it always produces constantly great images, this is just the exposure side there is so much more to photography than the technical means of achieving correctly exposed images and once you get this right you can really start to enjoy the art.
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