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Battery Mod Info

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Actually the smart board (or BMS as they are referred to) is a VERY complex and complete piece of engineering that has the ability to calibrate for battery characteristics and for the ability to determine, based on programmed parameters, when and if a cell will fail, BEFORE it fails. It tracks dozens of parameters, knows the offsets between batteries for balancing, knows tons of stuff about how the cells react and even trends tha data over the lifecycle of the pack to keep it useable long after most packs would be considered "damaged". Ie, the DJI packs "age" very well.

There is a lot of stuff that happens during manufacturing and there is some stuff you can do "after the fact", but one does not equal the other in regards to being able to "repurpose" packs (ie, load new cells in an already existing pack). On assembly they tell the pack to self-calibrate for the cells installed. That way it knows what is installed and can know exactly how they need to operate based upon formulation.

I am still working with a number of smart boards and getting a handle on the technical side of things (I have all the specs for all the chips used, their protocols and I am mapping out the I2C protocol as well as the chip-level configurations and capabilities), so it may be anywhere between a week or a month before I am able to get to a point where I can say EXACTLY what can be repurposed and what cannot.

But, if anyone thinks it is just a battery meter and balance system that keeps the voltages the same, they are way off... It is a very complex system that affords for variances within cells as well as tracking discharge and charge characteristics to keep everything in "balance". Quite frankly, almost all of the DJI drone battery systems use just as a complex system. Most other higher-end drones do as well. Then you have failures, like Parrot Anafi that won't show the voltages of their batteries and constantly run them into the "damage zone" on the low end. They "fixed" it in their USA offerings by increasing the size of the cell packs and changing the parameters, but they did not backward engineer it into their previous offerings thus if you aren't aware you are killing your batteries by not bringing the drone back before voltages get too low. This is all well documented and known on the other forums.

So, to sum up, if you just put a new set of cells into an existing DJI battery, it is not calibrated for those cells. It could be WAY OFF, and you won't know until you get a power fail out of the blue. Also if the proper formulation is not configured on the smart board it will not be monitoring the configured cells properly. If it is a DJI pack to DJI pack transplant it is pretty safe to say they are the same, but ALL of the alternative cell transplants are running a risk without knowing EXACTLY the characteristics of the cells being used (which is why you have to go to the manufacturer of the cells like I did to get all of that information to program the system appropriately).

Also, for those that are still looking at the addition of extra external packs, the issue there is you change the entire characteristics of how the smart board monitors power usage and end up messing with its ability to allow the pack to provide proper voltage and current. Unless certain electrical things are taken care of (that require changes to the TB47/TB48 packs themselves) you will always run the risk of tripping the charge mode and having the aircraft fall from the sky.
As far as the recalibrate with new cells, is it true that if you run the newly re-celled batt down to 3% you can induce a new recalibration? (both tb48 and tb47)
 
As far as the recalibrate with new cells, is it true that if you run the newly re-celled batt down to 3% you can induce a new recalibration? (both tb48 and tb47)
That's to be investigated, but a good friend of mine swear that it works. He did that by very slow discharge and balancing first, bypassing the "smart" board and using high quality charger/discharger with custom balancing harness. I have this harness and I'm about to perform calibration ASAP. Stay tuned ...
 
That's to be investigated, but a good friend of mine swear that it works. He did that by very slow discharge and balancing first, bypassing the "smart" board and using high quality charger/discharger with custom balancing harness. I have this harness and I'm about to perform calibration ASAP. Stay tuned ...
Please do update. I have been exploring the idea of a making for myself an easily swapped battery pack with the brainboard installed on the craft. My thought is to mount one original/OEM TB48 or 47 brain on the craft and then swap after market/diy packs (with properly configured cells and sensors). It would involve using a 3d printed mount/mechanism to hold the swappable OEM board in place for flight on the craft and an easily bridged connection/connectors for power and data from the battery pack(s). I don't know enough about the board's rubric/design to take this beyond just the idea phase, I do know that on other DJI batteries of the Inspire era, it is possible to short a few of the board terminals to reset.

Also, terribly interested in your mentioned harness. If you have any specs/diagrams, it would make my day. Cheers.
 
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Please do update. I have been exploring the idea of a making for myself an easily swapped battery pack with the brainboard installed on the craft. My thought is to mount one original/OEM TB48 or 47 brain on the craft and then swap after market/diy packs (with properly configured cells and sensors). It would involve using a 3d printed mount/mechanism to hold the swappable OEM board in place for flight on the craft and an easily bridged connection/connectors for power and data from the battery pack(s). I don't know enough about the board's rubric/design to take this beyond just the idea phase, I do know that on other DJI batteries of the Inspire era, it is possible to short a few of the board terminals to reset.

Also, terribly interested in your mentioned harness. If you have any specs/diagrams, it would make my day. Cheers.
The harness is actually a standard 6S balancing cable with one end modified for proprietary DJI multi-pin plug, that's all. It allows to perform a detailed maintenance of DJI TB battery pack, assuming availability of adequately sophisticated charger (i.e. iCharger NZ - Shipping Worlwide!https://www.icharger.co.nz. ). Here's a video DJI Inspire 1 TB 47 battery repair broken cell . Richard Josephson ([email protected]) may be able to make this harness for you.

As for your project ... Yes, that's basically the idea we're all after at this moment ... The TB 47/48 board's sophistication and raw LiPo cells sourcing seems to be the obstacles no one was able to overcome by far. Sooner or later somebody smart enough will dissect this board and find the way to program it for a given battery pack, I hope ...
 
The harness is actually a standard 6S balancing cable with one end modified for proprietary DJI multi-pin plug, that's all. It allows to perform a detailed maintenance of DJI TB battery pack, assuming availability of adequately sophisticated charger (i.e. iCharger NZ - Shipping Worlwide!https://www.icharger.co.nz. ). Here's a video DJI Inspire 1 TB 47 battery repair broken cell . Richard Josephson ([email protected]) may be able to make this harness for you.

As for your project ... Yes, that's basically the idea we're all after at this moment ... The TB 47/48 board's sophistication and raw LiPo cells sourcing seems to be the obstacles no one was able to overcome by far. Sooner or later somebody smart enough will dissect this board and find the way to program it for a given battery pack, I hope ...
I'll follow up on those leads, thanks. The cells seem to be a problem due to size BUT any cell that can supply the same power specs (or better) should be workable, but the flight/batt cage may need to be modded. Is all that would be needed is a reset/reflash of the board I believe or a way to trick it to lose count of cycles etc
 
Ok, a few issues...

If you plug the Inspire 1 battery back into the aircraft, the power failure condition will still be set if it was a cell broken failure. Again, the Inspire 1 does not use the chipset powerfail conditions, it uses it's own mapped against a set of bits stored in the CPU.

Also, I have ZERO problems reading actual cycles, statuses, etc. His software is flakey because he has software bugs. The values do NOT jump around the way they do for him. I have read a bunch of Inspire 1 batteries and the values are consistent. I would NOT try to write any values via his software since the comms are not consistent and you risk corrupting the chipset configuration.

Again, his software is buggy as hell (and I could explain where his problems are, but I REFUSE to help this guy since he is just trying to make a buck off people), but needless to say values should not jump all over the place (even his 5/6 cells BS is just that BS, as he should be able to read the configuration and automatically configure the software himself). It is immature software and it will screw up a battery for someone.

You can use the TI software to do everything he is doing. And once more unsealing a pack does not clear any statuses, that is a bug in his software.

This guy you are talking to is the same guy I was off facebook. He is NOT some kid as he claims to be (I can send you the chat log with him). He states he is from some Slavik nation, which is also suspect.

I stopped talking with the guy once he started trying to get information from me. If he knows so much about these batteries and everything else, why would he have so many bugs and why would he need information from someone else?
 
... If he knows so much about these batteries and everything else, why would he have so many bugs and why would he need information from someone else?
Brian, we've been talking a lot about this topic for months, both here and via personal messaging ... While I'm far for questioning your knowledge and expertise, I'm still confused trying to understand your intentions. What is the purpose of your involvement in this discussion? What is the reasoning for saying "I know this and that, I know how to do this and that, but I'm not going to tell because this and that." Are you really trying to avoid publication of dangerous "bomb making" instructions?

If you reached a point where further, foolproof battery calibration and setup is impossible or difficult to perform by skilled technicians, why don't you just say so? We know that this goal is requiring a waste amount of knowledge and skills. 90% of second hand Inspire 1 users have not the slightest idea what we're talking about. No one will mess with all this disassembly/cells sourcing/soldering/calibrating/programming issues, period. We need a finished, reliable aftermarket product, not a half-cooked, duct-taped battery attachment. Great, if this is your intention indeed ...
 
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Dobmatt, actually, I am sure ALL of us would love exactly what you have outlined, and what I actually attempted, was a "canned solution" to the battery issue.

Outside of that, being a responsible individual, I am just warning others not to waste money and enrich an individual that (this Patrik character) that hasn't done the homework to deal with Inspire 1 batteries (he does not even OWN an Inspire 1), yet is looking to make software to SELL to others for that explicit purpose. THAT is total BS as far as I am concerned, and with how buggy it is I would people rather not totally ruin a GOOD battery because they trusted faulty and poorly written software.

If his software did as advertised, I would say, "GREAT! Buy it and mod till your hearts content", but it does not. It is no better than all the aftermarket battery solutions to date, which are flawed, faulty, improperly built and improperly configured (c'mon the 9000mAh 3d-printed product had the shunt resistors modified instead of the BMS reprogrammed properly).

If you notice, I NEVER once stated that it was a fools errand to figure out a solution. I actually do hope someone does do just that. And I would be more than willing to lend technical knowledge and even help in the BMS modifications to do it properly. But that is the key term, PROPERLY.

The cells needed for this to be done correctly need to be LiPoHV cells that are fully matched (something virtually NO VENDOR actually does). Matched in capacity, resistance, power output curve and thermal characteristics. DJI actually does this as a requirement and it is a HUGE requirement.

I have done the math and we should be able to see a proper 9000mAh and 10000mAh solution (the 9000mAh the max for the RAW setups and the 10000mAh for all other camera solutions). Those would "max-out" the aircraft and allow for a good 25-30 minute flight time. Basically it would make the Inspire 1 pretty much "ideal" for it's form and capabilities.

I also estimate that such a solution should run in the range of $350-450. Anything more is gouging the market and limiting the sales. Again, this would be done harvesting Inspire 1 batteries and building from scratch, reusing the BMS, fully reconfiguring, calibrating and doing a full-on run cycle with storage charge before shipping. Totally doable for someone motivated.

Now for people to do one-offs, not likely. You yourself already know the crap-shoot there is buying battery cells in bulk. The manufacturers are pure crap because they hold out the "good stock" for their demanding clientele. Small fish get the chum that is left over.

Hell I have enough cells to build 3 9000mAh batteries in full. I can also build a single 10000mAh. If I wanted I could configure them and build probably 2 10000mAh and a single 9000mAh. The big issue is the HUGE PITA to desolder the existing packs, do all the testing and scaling to rate the individual cells, match them and build new packs that are optimized. Again, not something I have time for, nor much motivation for either. I already have the BMSes totally reprogrammed and reconfigured from my testing.

And no, I am not saying this to "tease" or anything else. Just saying it is VERY possible, just not probable or practical.

All of the other solutions to date are hacked and unreliable. THAT is my point.

Honestly, if you want a "plug and play" solution, I would rather work with someone to come up with a new 3D-printed body that would allow for a "matched pair" of TB47s/TB48s that were modified to be plugged into a single aircraft. They would run as a matched set. The BIG issue there is the extra weight of the second BMS/cap/plastic cage, which is just waste. Beyond that it is a simple matter of circuitry to parallel both batteries "PROPERLY" (I say that because all efforts to date are NOT PROPER) and have it fly and monitor the whole bank as it should. Hell I wouldn't mind redoing even the top cap to be a LARGE top cap and cage that would house both batteries together as one.

Now THAT would be a much better product to try to produce. A dual-cell battery pack with 9000mAh or 11400mAh capacity. The only issue there is the fact that it needs to be engineered to allow for better thermals between the respective packs, otherwise you cook the sets of cells in the middle. That is why I was originally thinking of doing a "side-saddle" type of setup (leaving the original battery space unused and just "capped") and utilizing a pair of TB48S (or TB47S) batteries with a custom circuit where the stock battery and BMS goes that interfaces to both and allows you to use "new" DJI batteries for our aircraft. Now produce a custom "cage" to allow those batteries to be plugged in and then a custom BMS "manager" that interfaces to both batteries and passes on the information they have and you have a 100% winner of a product. Hell you could charge $200-350 for such a beast and I am sure a lot of Inspire 1 owners would jump at it to be able to utilize newer battery stock and have the ability to run multiple batteries at once. Hell the black caps would even look nice. You could configure the center cap/circuitry to not turn on until both batteries are "on" and ready and then it would talk to both automatically. Sounds like a slick piece of engineering if it is done right.
 
Dobmatt, actually, I am sure ALL of us would love exactly what you have outlined, and what I actually attempted, was a "canned solution" to the battery issue.

Outside of that, being a responsible individual, I am just warning others not to waste money and enrich an individual that (this Patrik character) that hasn't done the homework to deal with Inspire 1 batteries (he does not even OWN an Inspire 1), yet is looking to make software to SELL to others for that explicit purpose. THAT is total BS as far as I am concerned, and with how buggy it is I would people rather not totally ruin a GOOD battery because they trusted faulty and poorly written software.

If his software did as advertised, I would say, "GREAT! Buy it and mod till your hearts content", but it does not. It is no better than all the aftermarket battery solutions to date, which are flawed, faulty, improperly built and improperly configured (c'mon the 9000mAh 3d-printed product had the shunt resistors modified instead of the BMS reprogrammed properly).

If you notice, I NEVER once stated that it was a fools errand to figure out a solution. I actually do hope someone does do just that. And I would be more than willing to lend technical knowledge and even help in the BMS modifications to do it properly. But that is the key term, PROPERLY.

The cells needed for this to be done correctly need to be LiPoHV cells that are fully matched (something virtually NO VENDOR actually does). Matched in capacity, resistance, power output curve and thermal characteristics. DJI actually does this as a requirement and it is a HUGE requirement.

I have done the math and we should be able to see a proper 9000mAh and 10000mAh solution (the 9000mAh the max for the RAW setups and the 10000mAh for all other camera solutions). Those would "max-out" the aircraft and allow for a good 25-30 minute flight time. Basically it would make the Inspire 1 pretty much "ideal" for it's form and capabilities.

I also estimate that such a solution should run in the range of $350-450. Anything more is gouging the market and limiting the sales. Again, this would be done harvesting Inspire 1 batteries and building from scratch, reusing the BMS, fully reconfiguring, calibrating and doing a full-on run cycle with storage charge before shipping. Totally doable for someone motivated.

Now for people to do one-offs, not likely. You yourself already know the crap-shoot there is buying battery cells in bulk. The manufacturers are pure crap because they hold out the "good stock" for their demanding clientele. Small fish get the chum that is left over.

Hell I have enough cells to build 3 9000mAh batteries in full. I can also build a single 10000mAh. If I wanted I could configure them and build probably 2 10000mAh and a single 9000mAh. The big issue is the HUGE PITA to desolder the existing packs, do all the testing and scaling to rate the individual cells, match them and build new packs that are optimized. Again, not something I have time for, nor much motivation for either. I already have the BMSes totally reprogrammed and reconfigured from my testing.

And no, I am not saying this to "tease" or anything else. Just saying it is VERY possible, just not probable or practical.

All of the other solutions to date are hacked and unreliable. THAT is my point.

Honestly, if you want a "plug and play" solution, I would rather work with someone to come up with a new 3D-printed body that would allow for a "matched pair" of TB47s/TB48s that were modified to be plugged into a single aircraft. They would run as a matched set. The BIG issue there is the extra weight of the second BMS/cap/plastic cage, which is just waste. Beyond that it is a simple matter of circuitry to parallel both batteries "PROPERLY" (I say that because all efforts to date are NOT PROPER) and have it fly and monitor the whole bank as it should. Hell I wouldn't mind redoing even the top cap to be a LARGE top cap and cage that would house both batteries together as one.

Now THAT would be a much better product to try to produce. A dual-cell battery pack with 9000mAh or 11400mAh capacity. The only issue there is the fact that it needs to be engineered to allow for better thermals between the respective packs, otherwise you cook the sets of cells in the middle. That is why I was originally thinking of doing a "side-saddle" type of setup (leaving the original battery space unused and just "capped") and utilizing a pair of TB48S (or TB47S) batteries with a custom circuit where the stock battery and BMS goes that interfaces to both and allows you to use "new" DJI batteries for our aircraft. Now produce a custom "cage" to allow those batteries to be plugged in and then a custom BMS "manager" that interfaces to both batteries and passes on the information they have and you have a 100% winner of a product. Hell you could charge $200-350 for such a beast and I am sure a lot of Inspire 1 owners would jump at it to be able to utilize newer battery stock and have the ability to run multiple batteries at once. Hell the black caps would even look nice. You could configure the center cap/circuitry to not turn on until both batteries are "on" and ready and then it would talk to both automatically. Sounds like a slick piece of engineering if it is done right.
any thing would not be waistfull.......have you seen prices on ebay and amazon for new and used TB48 and 47........wow i see new ones for what i got my 12000 for......the only drone not effected in P4 lipos.......if you buy aftermarket to use for I1 donors, you could get 11740 mah for 89 bucks.......plus hard work......Vincent NG 12000 is all P4 cells....... i could buy a new I2 for selling my tb packs
 
any thing would not be waistfull.......have you seen prices on ebay and amazon for new and used TB48 and 47........wow i see new ones for what i got my 12000 for......the only drone not effected in P4 lipos.......if you buy aftermarket to use for I1 donors, you could get 11740 mah for 89 bucks.......plus hard work......Vincent NG 12000 is all P4 cells....... i could buy a new I2 for selling my tb packs

And there is the REAL problem. I would NEVER trust any of my Inspire 1 aircraft to janky aftermarket cells that are unreliable and of questionable quality.

Basically, if you use sub-standard crap like that, you risk peoples lives. And, yes, I have ZERO doubt an Inspire 1 crashing would kill someone.

Ultimately, that is my motivation on a lot of this. These are not toys. These are not Mavic lightweights. These are massive aircraft that can do REAL damage.

So, it is via being responsible that I do not post everything I know. Inspire 1 drones have become cheap enough that unmotivated, irresponsible individuals can easily buy them on the cheap, and as such with a "cheap" battery solution, run the very real risk of harming others. What would become of the Inspires if that happened???

I can tell you, they would start making drones of a given size illegal to fly without a commercial license at the very least and at the worst without a specialized license, or even flat out deny them to be in the air above a given size.

THAT is the real issue here. Reliability.

It is 100% irresponsible for ANYONE to put a third party battery pack on an Inspire as its main power source and fly it. DJI knows this, thus why they made it so difficult.

Again, I have ZERO issue with someone producing solid, balanced, calibrated battery packs for these aircraft. I would hope someone would rival DJI offerings and stand by their product. And I am uniquely qualified to stand here and say it is VERY hard to do just that.

Sorry, majority of the Lipos available on the market are not "mission critical". Do they work, yes. Do they fail unexpectedly, yes.

An aircraft the size of an Inspire 1 will easily kill a child. It could easily kill an adult as well. If flown into traffic there is no question it could cause a massive chain-reaction and many deaths.

If any of that happened there would be swift and quick outlawing of drones of a given size or larger. We have just been lucky that such sized aircraft have been out of reach financially for those that want to be that irresponsible on a whim. Keeping proper batteries at a premium for everyone keeps that a true case.

I really do not understand the desire to make a $90 12000mAh battery for these aircraft. That would make them HIGHLY popular for all sorts of stupidity.

Also, to clarify, it is not just the mAh you need to look at, you also need to look at the voltage and watt-hours. They also need to be liPoHV cells of high quality.

Hopefully I have clarified my position on the whole "battery thing" once more (I believe I have stated such before as well).
 
Hopefully I have clarified my position on the whole "battery thing" once more (I believe I have stated such before as well).
So, the conclusion for today - July 07/2021 - is "DOABLE IN THEORY, NO WAY IN REALITY", right? Fly your Inspire 1 on remaining power of original DJI batteries while you can and hang the bird on the wall when they refuse to deliver ...

And this is exactly what I'm gonna do! By the time TB50 batteries for my Inspire 2 vanish as well I'll be 6' under anyway ? ... Thanks for entertainment, I'm out!
 
Actually it is not theory. I have running dual TB47 and dual TB48 battery setups.

All I am hearing now (please, correct me if I am wrong) is that only a viable "cheap" option is wanted, and anything that is professionally produced at a reasonable (but not cheap) price is not desired.

That is the whole point here. Cheap = unsafe since the cells are unreliable.

I have had.a "built pack" fail while in flight. It started erroring and then went into emergency land mode and literally shut itself off while in flight. Luckily I was almost landed and a foot off the ground and it came down safely. But what if that happened at altitude? Over other peoples property? Other people themselves?

See my point?

There also seems to be an unhealthy fascination some have with wanting to get the furthest distance out of drones as well. Kinda like one-upping everyone else to get distance/height/flight time/etc. Not an issue if flown over your own property, but we all know people fly like that over bodies of water, uninhabited ranges, mountains, etc.... All with one thing in common: Not a good place to lose a drone that has a high capacity lipo pack installed in it. Ie, quite irresponsible in ALL cases.
 
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