TB48 (Inspire) v TB48S (Matrice)

[HeliEngadin]

Interesting, is the Koptermax battery a DJI manufactured piece? Is that a I1 top or a Koptermax top? If a I1 top, did the Koptermax circuit board work with I1?

Hello everybody,
the KopterMax TB48K is made from an old DJI TB48 that is either exhausted, not performing well, with swollen cells or even not powering up at all.
The original circuit board is preserved, and brand new, high performance cells are installed.
In our laboratory here in Switzerland we do also perform a full recalibration for maximizing capacity and flight time.
The cycle counter is not resetted, to prevent possible issues with the energy gauging; instead, the old cycle count is reported on the battery side and in the provided test reports, and it can be deducted from the total cycle count in the DJI GO app to get the actual cycles on the new cells.

Any ballpark on price for the TB48K?

At the moment price is 229€ without VAT.
The most expensive part is actually manufacturing of the cells and the labour involved in the regeneration process.
We do discount up to 40€ if you provide your own battery to recycle.
We also trade in your old TB48 if you want to dispose them.

After all, it is a terrible e-waste throwing them away in the dumpster when they can be recycled...

 

[Dobmatt]

Hello everybody,
the KopterMax TB48K is made from an old DJI TB48 that is either exhausted, not performing well, with swollen cells or even not powering up at all.
The original circuit board is preserved, and brand new, high performance cells are installed.
In our laboratory here in Switzerland we do also perform a full recalibration for maximizing capacity and flight time.
The cycle counter is not resetted, to prevent possible issues with the energy gauging; instead, the old cycle count is reported on the battery side and in the provided test reports, and it can be deducted from the total cycle count in the DJI GO app to get the actual cycles on the new cells.



At the moment price is 229€ without VAT.
The most expensive part is actually manufacturing of the cells and the labour involved in the regeneration process.
We do discount up to 40€ if you provide your own battery to recycle.
We also trade in your old TB48 if you want to dispose them.

After all, it is a terrible e-waste throwing them away in the dumpster when they can be recycled...

Thank you for this valuable information. It was just a matter of time for somebody smart enough to start recycling these batteries. Kudos for you!

 

[niki]

Hello everybody,
the KopterMax TB48K is made from an old DJI TB48 that is either exhausted, not performing well, with swollen cells or even not powering up at all.
The original circuit board is preserved, and brand new, high performance cells are installed.
In our laboratory here in Switzerland we do also perform a full recalibration for maximizing capacity and flight time.
The cycle counter is not resetted, to prevent possible issues with the energy gauging; instead, the old cycle count is reported on the battery side and in the provided test reports, and it can be deducted from the total cycle count in the DJI GO app to get the actual cycles on the new cells.



At the moment price is 229€ without VAT.
The most expensive part is actually manufacturing of the cells and the labour involved in the regeneration process.
We do discount up to 40€ if you provide your own battery to recycle.
We also trade in your old TB48 if you want to dispose them.

After all, it is a terrible e-waste throwing them away in the dumpster when they can be recycled...

But why the price is just like new battery?
I know they are disappearing from the market but those prices are kind of extortion for recycled battery. Atleast the cells could be bought much much cheaper.
You don't have the expenses for producing the plastic case as well the electronics neither have to pay for the intelectual labor that was invested from DJI to develop the batteries.

 

[jonnyboy]

Anyone ever considered retrofitting the inspire 2 batteries on the I1?

 

[Dobmatt]

Anyone ever considered retrofitting the inspire 2 batteries on the I1?

Yes, no way for 100 reasons ...

 

[jonnyboy]

Yes, no way for 100 reasons ...

If you can name 5 ill give up lol.
I have a damaged inspire1 and a friend with a trashed I2. So basically a free experiment.

Are we talking impossible
, or just not worth the effort

My thoughts are retro the batteries on the I1 with I2 parts. Someone talk me out of this before I bust out the hack saw

 

[Dobmatt]

If you can name 5 ill give up lol.
I have a damaged inspire1 and a friend with a trashed I2. So basically a free experiment.

Are we talking impossible
, or just not worth the effort

My thoughts are retro the batteries on the I1 with I2 parts. Someone talk me out of this before I bust out the hack saw

1. Taking TB50 battery apart is a PITA way bigger than disassembling TB47/48.
2. Only cells may be usable, anything else is worthless.
3. You'll need to completely un-solder TB50 battery pack (which is of different dimensions, capacity and type) cell by cell, and do the same with exhausted TB47/48 battery.
4. You must connect TB47/48 top with "smart" circuitry to new cells and pray for proper communication on handshake.
5. You must be crazy or experienced enough to do all this without self-inflicted injury or fire.

 

[Dobmatt]

I'm glad to report a successful transplanting operation, performed on dying TB47 battery. The donor (brand new TB47S battery for M600 drone) supplied fresh pack, everything else was recycled from original battery. The tricky part is to properly charge/discharge new pack and persuade old "smart" board to recognize the transplant. After few "training" cycles the battery should be discharged down to near zero capacity (deep discharge), balancing cable disconnected for a few hours and connected back before charging. This should reset the board, although the old cycle count remains in memory. Bottom line? It works as expected, but money wise ... I'm not sure, considering 190USD price tag and all hassle involved ...

 

[JSX]

I'm glad to report a successful transplanting operation, performed on dying TB47 battery. The donor (brand new TB47S battery for M600 drone) supplied fresh pack, everything else was recycled from original battery. The tricky part is to properly charge/discharge new pack and persuade old "smart" board to recognize the transplant. After few "training" cycles the battery should be discharged down to near zero capacity (deep discharge), balancing cable disconnected for a few hours and connected back before charging. This should reset the board, although the old cycle count remains in memory. Bottom line? It works as expected, but money wise ... I'm not sure, considering 190USD price tag and all hassle involved ...

I did this to 2 ea TB47 batteries. On one of them the I1 wont complete start up, when I turn it on the drone goes thru initialization but ends with a solid red light and the app shows no info on battery. I will try the discharge and unplug the balance cable and see if it works.

The other one though, it has power at the terminals all the time, with the battery on or off. If I put the battery in the I1 it fires up even when the battery is off, any ideas on this one?

 

[Dobmatt]

I did this to 2 ea TB47 batteries. On one of them the I1 wont complete start up, when I turn it on the drone goes thru initialization but ends with a solid red light and the app shows no info on battery. I will try the discharge and unplug the balance cable and see if it works.

The other one though, it has power at the terminals all the time, with the battery on or off. If I put the battery in the I1 it fires up even when the battery is off, any ideas on this one?

1. There's no battery data passed to Inspire. You'll see two tiny wires (yellow and red) soldered next to main output socket. Swap them and try.
2. I have no idea why the second battery is permanently on. You really, really need to know what are you doing with these batteries ...

 

[dougcjohn]

@Dobmatt is correct, all data stored on IC card within battery, supplied to app. Draining down to minimal LiPo voltage is key.

There was another Poster that reported the need to swap leads... due to balance lead connector reversing these wires. It depends on how you transfer, what is left behind.

Reversing leads should take care of Red light failure.
Battery always “On” sounds like soldering may have a little slag or bridge on IC panel.

 

[dougcjohn]

I'm glad to report a successful transplanting operation, performed on dying TB47 battery. The donor (brand new TB47S battery for M600 drone) supplied fresh pack, everything else was recycled from original battery. The tricky part is to properly charge/discharge new pack and persuade old "smart" board to recognize the transplant. After few "training" cycles the battery should be discharged down to near zero capacity (deep discharge), balancing cable disconnected for a few hours and connected back before charging. This should reset the board, although the old cycle count remains in memory. Bottom line? It works as expected, but money wise ... I'm not sure, considering 190USD price tag and all hassle involved ...

Hey Congrats!
I passed over and missed... congrats the the transplant!

After the time and attention, you feel it was worthwhile still compared to maybe KopterMax trade?

 

[Dobmatt]

After the time and attention, you feel it was worthwhile still compared to maybe KopterMax trade?

No, money and hassle wise TB48S transplant is a monkey business. KopterMax must go further, replacing individual cells. These can be sourced from Chinese vendors, but re-soldering is a serious task not for a weekend warriors. I may explore this option as well ...

DJI did excellent job making these "smart" batteries difficult to re-build, modify and reset. Cycle count - for example - is chiseled permanently into memory. Disassembly and assembly requires top notch skills, dealing with unpinned grenade ... Sometimes I think that they deliberately booby-trapped them or installed a self-destructive firmware wipe-off LOL.

 

[dougcjohn]

No, money and hassle wise TB48S transplant is a monkey business. KopterMax must go further, replacing individual cells. These can be sourced from Chinese vendors, but re-soldering is a serious task not for a weekend warriors. I may explore this option as well ...

DJI did excellent job making these "smart" batteries difficult to re-build, modify and reset. Cycle count - for example - is chiseled permanently into memory. Disassembly and assembly requires top notch skills, dealing with unpinned grenade ... Sometimes I think that they deliberately booby-trapped them or installed a self-destructive firmware wipe-off LOL.

You're in the same zone as me. After exploring the option last year, it became clear to me it wasn't a productive direction for me... others may find it a great way to save $$ or recycle.

Similar to my exploring the saddle batteries, acquired the 3D add-ons, elec spade, and measured extra time... phew! Isn't worth the effort unless specific project needed 3-4 extra minutes.

If I need more TB48, I'll explore the KopterMax avenue for ease of replacement.

 

[Dobmatt]

You're in the same zone as me. After exploring the option last year, it became clear to me it wasn't a productive direction for me... others may find it a great way to save $$ or recycle.

Similar to my exploring the saddle batteries, acquired the 3D add-ons, elec spade, and measured extra time... phew! Isn't worth the effort unless specific project needed 3-4 extra minutes.

If I need more TB48, I'll explore the KopterMax avenue for ease of replacement.

So called "saddle" (parallel) battery reinforcement doesn't work as expected due to the brutal power of Ohm Law. Attachment batteries - no matter what size - are of different impedance than the main branch ... Therefore at a particular moment of discharge during flight the entire system goes off balance and currents are floating between packs rather than toward motors. Only identical twin systems controlled by dedicated circuitry to eliminate this annoyance will work, hence the Inspire 2 concept.

Another, more viable option is to employ standard LiPo 6S pack, build a custom balancing harness adapter and connect it to re-cycled DJI battery top with "smart" board ... Thing is that these packs are bigger, heavier, with lesser power density. To get TB48 flight time Inspire must carry a bulky 7000mAH container. Some people go for as far as 12Ah packs, getting 25 minutes of flight with screaming propellers. At some point more energy is used just to lift the fuel than to actually fly. The swift dog fighter transforms into a clumsy cargo transporter ...

So, yes, as long as we have limited access to recycled DJI batteries, KopterMax approach seems to be the most reliable solution ...

 

[JSX]

Thank you two for the info, I didn't notice the data wires were in different positions. I fixed that and also found a spot where the solder had touched a trace it shouldn't have. I looked at that board a few times and never noticed it, they are both working now!

 

[Dobmatt]

Thank you two for the info, I didn't notice the data wires were in different positions. I fixed that and also found a spot where the solder had touched a trace it shouldn't have. I looked at that board a few times and never noticed it, they are both working now!

Yep, it's all about knowledge and soldering ... Happy flying !

 

[niki]

So called "saddle" (parallel) battery reinforcement doesn't work as expected due to the brutal power of Ohm Law. Attachment batteries - no matter what size - are of different impedance than the main branch ... Therefore at a particular moment of discharge during flight the entire system goes off balance and currents are floating between packs rather than toward motors. Only identical twin systems controlled by dedicated circuitry to eliminate this annoyance will work, hence the Inspire 2 concept.

Another, more viable option is to employ standard LiPo 6S pack, build a custom balancing harness adapter and connect it to re-cycled DJI battery top with "smart" board ... Thing is that these packs are bigger, heavier, with lesser power density. To get TB48 flight time Inspire must carry a bulky 7000mAH container. Some people go for as far as 12Ah packs, getting 25 minutes of flight with screaming propellers. At some point more energy is used just to lift the fuel than to actually fly. The swift dog fighter transforms into a clumsy cargo transporter ...

So, yes, as long as we have limited access to recycled DJI batteries, KopterMax approach seems to be the most reliable solution ...

It works well with the correct pack, the secret is to use much higher C rated battery. With 2x 6s 2600 45C (gens ace) batteries connected to TB47 with the power clip adaptor, Inspire RAW can fly 22 min down to 10% battery level, even dji go shows the correct estimated time trough the flight. In any UAS doubling the mAh will never double the flight time, so it should be expected that even with 2 TB47 batteries in paralel there will be about 30% to 50% gain in the flight time. It tends to be the lower if the UAS is a multirotor and higher gain if its a plane.
The only reason I abandoned this approach is the amount of batteries that have to be carried, charged and monitored, 3 per flight is kind of too much hassle.

 

[Dobmatt]

It works well with the correct pack, the secret is to use much higher C rated battery. With 2x 6s 2600 45C (gens ace) batteries connected to TB47 with the power clip adaptor, Inspire RAW can fly 22 min down to 10% battery level, even dji go shows the correct estimated time trough the flight. In any UAS doubling the mAh will never double the flight time, so it should be expected that even with 2 TB47 batteries in paralel there will be about 30% to 50% gain in the flight time. It tends to be the lower if the UAS is a multirotor and higher gain if its a plane.
The only reason I abandoned this approach is the amount of batteries that have to be carried, charged and monitored, 3 per flight is kind of too much hassle.

Correct. Unfortunately to make "saddle" concept working in sensible manner, the main "smart" battery must be in equally good shape and transmit healthy cells data to the app. Weak, exhausted cells will not deliver required currents on high demand, causing the entire system to go into limited power state or - in worst scenario - emergency landing ...

 

[Dupek]

I did transplanted I2 battery to I1 Head ,works just like normal Inspire 1 battery,but its not like oreginal stisk it in and go situation but it works.
On other hand TB55 also could be used and thats what is my next project,more capacyty.
This time i dont want to bolt on TB55 to the TB47/48 head instead i will make special conector, one side TB55 other TB47/48 so i can just keep pluging TB50/TB50 batteries
Unfortunatly i have many projects so it may take some time.
Also i figured out how to get capacyty back from old batteries so now i have few choices.