Reporting "commercial" UAV use

[SultanGris]

Seems no one cares but the whiners, lol

 

[JasonJett]

This is all changing in a month or two anyway. It wont be required. As for all the guys that paid for a license. I get it. But your ride is almost over. Most of you didn't go to get your pilots license because you wanted to operate a drone. You got it to fly a plane. You were just lucky that this came into the same area and have an advantage for a while. These things don't need a pilots license to safely operate. A little common sense goes a long way. However if that is the issue he will have his issue coming soon. But if he's just creating a little competition then you can step up your marketing and make people aware. The type of bird he is using doesn't matter. There is not much difference between a phantom pro 3 and a inspire as far as quality of photo. The inspire is not considered a "Professional drone" in fact when it was introduced as a awesome product they even mentioned that a business bought one and it was the first consumer drone to get an exemption. Based on the words of your post it sounds like he is taking some business. Just get better with obtaining business and you will not even know they are there.

 

[tweaker]

Yes no point in getting a licence....

I mean I have a car I will become a taxi.

I have scissors I will become a hairdressor

I have a rope I will become a climbing instructor.

I have a scapel. Maybe a surgeon!!

The reason there is certification is to ensure competency. This applies not just to drones but to all industries!

Your argument does stand up to scrutiny. Sorry

 

[JasonJett]

Yes no point in getting a licence....

I mean I have a car I will become a taxi.

I have scissors I will become a hairdressor

I have a rope I will become a climbing instructor.

I have a scapel. Maybe a surgeon!!

The reason there is certification is to ensure competency. This applies not just to drones but to all industries!

Your argument does stand up to scrutiny. Sorry

People with Cars can now drive for Uber.
Hairdressor's are dealing with public contact meaning could be diseases. Health related
Climbing instructor again someone could die...
Surgeon..again dealing with people and their health and them living...

Flying a drone or in other words a RC aircraft that we have been doing for years without pilots license. Huge difference and if you cant see that then there is nothing I can do to help that out. Should we have a certificate like a real estate license..sure but pilot license...thats just crazy and a way to control the market. Something the USA is known for. Allowing competition

 

[Ezookiel]

This is all changing in a month or two anyway. It wont be required. .

It's far from over in a couple of months. Have you actually read the new rules coming into effect? There's hardly any useful place you can fly commercially under them. Anyone who thinks it's all over hasn't read the rules with an aviation map in their hand, or lives in the middle of nowhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tweaker]

People with Cars can now drive for Uber.
Hairdressor's are dealing with public contact meaning could be diseases. Health related
Climbing instructor again someone could die...
Surgeon..again dealing with people and their health and them living...

Flying a drone or in other words a RC aircraft that we have been doing for years without pilots license. Huge difference and if you cant see that then there is nothing I can do to help that out. Should we have a certificate like a real estate license..sure but pilot license...thats just crazy and a way to control the market. Something the USA is known for. Allowing competition

Hmm -3kg landing on your head from 400ft -would not kill you? Flying a 3kg UAV at 22ms over a busy congested area-would not have potential to kill you? Rapidly spinning UAV props to the face would not blind you?

"......RC aircraft that we have been doing for years" - Oh well if you have been doing it for "years" thats ok then.

I might just start ritual killing as the Ancient Aztecs had been doing it for "years" .

"Yes officer we have been doing that ritual murder/eating babies hearts thing round here for years "
"Years you say-oh thats ok then your free to go"

Nothing to do with competition just making sure whoever does it commercially is current and competent just like in any other profession

Huge difference and if you cant see that then there is nothing I can do to help that out.

 

[tweaker]

Add to my previous post above.

No pilot licence required just a Permit For Aerial Work specific to all aspects of operating a UAV.

 

[The Editor]

A little confusion me thinks on this thread with where or what country a poster is talking about.
At the moment, the US has an evolving UAV framework with nothing fixed in law and has (thus far) been very poorly and slowly implemented. PPL seems a requirement to attain certification for commercial operation of a UAV (which is crazy).
In the UK, there are clearly defined rules (not guidelines) which are law under The Air Navigation Order.
Commercial use of a UAV requires a level of competence (encompassing certain aviation based subjects) usually evidenced by a groundschool exam. Additionally, an approved operation s manual must be submitted and lodged with the CAA together with proof of flight competence (again usually evidenced by a flight assessment, signed off by an examiner).

 

[tweaker]

Yes. Ack. Totally did not realise the OP was stateside!!

No need for full PPL licence.

Defo a need for cert of some sort to prove competency in a commercial setting.

On a side note with regards to PFAW the CAA just turned mine round in under 10 days. Credit where credit is due after the debacle this time last year.

 

[JasonJett]

Hmm -3kg landing on your head from 400ft -would not kill you? Flying a 3kg UAV at 22ms over a busy congested area-would not have potential to kill you? Rapidly spinning UAV props to the face would not blind you?

"......RC aircraft that we have been doing for years" - Oh well if you have been doing it for "years" thats ok then.

I might just start ritual killing as the Ancient Aztecs had been doing it for "years" .

"Yes officer we have been doing that ritual murder/eating babies hearts thing round here for years "
"Years you say-oh thats ok then your free to go"

Nothing to do with competition just making sure whoever does it commercially is current and competent just like in any other profession

Huge difference and if you cant see that then there is nothing I can do to help that out.

Yes 3kg landing on your head from a hobby consumer flying could happen with a fly away. No need to be commercial for that to happen. So you point is invalid.

You are not suppose to fly over a busy congested area per rules set by FFA. Commercially or privately. Again you point invalid.

Rapid spinning props again could happen commercially or privately. Your point invalid. If a consumer not doing commercial work doesn't need a license neither should a commercial.

your comment "Nothing to do with competition just making sure whoever does it commercially is current and competent just like in any other profession"

All of those things you mentioned can happen to a commercial flight or a personal hobbiest flight. It doesn't matter either way.

So if you are going down that road don't say just making sure people in a profession you should have issues with every pilot.

 

[The Editor]

Yes 3kg landing on your head from a hobby consumer flying could happen with a fly away. No need to be commercial for that to happen. So you point is invalid.

You are not suppose to fly over a busy congested area per rules set by FFA. Commercially or privately. Again you point invalid.

Rapid spinning props again could happen commercially or privately. Your point invalid. If a consumer not doing commercial work doesn't need a license neither should a commercial.

your comment "Nothing to do with competition just making sure whoever does it commercially is current and competent just like in any other profession"

All of those things you mentioned can happen to a commercial flight or a personal hobbiest flight. It doesn't matter either way.

So if you are going down that road don't say just making sure people in a profession you should have issues with every pilot.

I am afraid you are very wrong in your comments.
First and foremost, a commercial operator will have requested and obtained permissions to make the flight in question. This would include a briefing to both crew and any talent or civilians within 50m of the intended flight path. That means people are aware of a UAV above them, know what to do if a 'Terminate' signal is called and have given their permission for the aircraft to be near them.
A commercial operator will make a flight with contingencies in place should there be a problem.
A commercial operator will have a robust and approved pre, during and post checklist system in place that will be followed emphatically together with a lodged operations manual that the aviation body for that country will have approved.
The level of maintenance and pre flight planning will be that much higher for a commercial operator that (hopefully) should prevent a problem occuring.
However, should an issue arise, a commercial OP will have emergency (boldface) procedures in place (again stated in their ops manual) to deal with nearly all eventualities and minimise any collateral damage.
Additionally SHOULD an accident occur a commercial operator will have the mandatory liability insurance in place for indemnification.
Before ANY flight is undertaken by a commercial OP a full risk analysis is completed, together with a site survey for the purpose of identifying hazards and alternate landing/ditch sites.
Depending on the location local authorities maybe notified and a full list of localised emergency services will be recorded for easy reference should they be needed.
In a 'flyaway' situation, procedures will be followed and calculations made on time, speed, bearing and endurance which will be relayed to both the police and any relevant aviation authority.

Do most (or any) hobby fliers prepare and follow anything like the procedures above?
There is a reason a certification process is in place and it shows the countries aviation authority the operator has attained and understood a level of competency and safety required for safe operation.
Can ALL risk be removed? Most certainly not. However, all flights are about risk mitigation and risk assesement which 95 percent of 'hobby' fliers would not nor need to go through.

 

[tweaker]

Yes 3kg landing on your head from a hobby consumer flying could happen with a fly away. No need to be commercial for that to happen. So you point is invalid.

You are not suppose to fly over a busy congested area per rules set by FFA. Commercially or privately. Again you point invalid.

Rapid spinning props again could happen commercially or privately. Your point invalid. If a consumer not doing commercial work doesn't need a license neither should a commercial.

your comment "Nothing to do with competition just making sure whoever does it commercially is current and competent just like in any other profession"

All of those things you mentioned can happen to a commercial flight or a personal hobbiest flight. It doesn't matter either way.

So if you are going down that road don't say just making sure people in a profession you should have issues with every pilot.

Glad to see that you agree with me that the incidents I outlined can happen to both hobbyist and commercial UAV pilots.

Now that you agree with me -agree with me that the commercial operator that has been formally tested in resolving the incidents I outlined is more competent by virtue of having his reactions tested under those circumstances.

The hobbyist is an unknown quantity and by virtue is potentially on his first flight with limited knowledge.

I rest my case.

 

[Michael Morris]

I am afraid you are very wrong in your comments.
First and foremost, a commercial operator will have requested and obtained permissions to make the flight in question. This would include a briefing to both crew and any talent or civilians within 50m of the intended flight path. That means people are aware of a UAV above them, know what to do if a 'Terminate' signal is called and have given their permission for the aircraft to be near them.
A commercial operator will make a flight with contingencies in place should there be a problem.
A commercial operator will have a robust and approved pre, during and post checklist system in place that will be followed emphatically together with a lodged operations manual that the aviation body for that country will have approved.
The level of maintenance and pre flight planning will be that much higher for a commercial operator that (hopefully) should prevent a problem occuring.
However, should an issue arise, a commercial OP will have emergency (boldface) procedures in place (again stated in their ops manual) to deal with nearly all eventualities and minimise any collateral damage.
Additionally SHOULD an accident occur a commercial operator will have the mandatory liability insurance in place for indemnification.
Before ANY flight is undertaken by a commercial OP a full risk analysis is completed, together with a site survey for the purpose of identifying hazards and alternate landing/ditch sites.
Depending on the location local authorities maybe notified and a full list of localised emergency services will be recorded for easy reference should they be needed.
In a 'flyaway' situation, procedures will be followed and calculations made on time, speed, bearing and endurance which will be relayed to both the police and any relevant aviation authority.

Do most (or any) hobby fliers prepare and follow anything like the procedures above?
There is a reason a certification process is in place and it shows the countries aviation authority the operator has attained and understood a level of competency and safety required for safe operation.
Can ALL risk be removed? Most certainly not. However, all flights are about risk mitigation and risk assesement which 95 percent of 'hobby' fliers would not nor need to go through.

Would also like to add to your last para, that commercial operators are required by the CAA to ensure that their flight operations pose NO GREATER risk than a manned aircraft.

 

[JasonJett]

Glad to see that you agree with me that the incidents I outlined can happen to both hobbyist and commercial UAV pilots.

Now that you agree with me -agree with me that the commercial operator that has been formally tested in resolving the incidents I outlined is more competent by virtue of having his reactions tested under those circumstances.

The hobbyist is an unknown quantity and by virtue is potentially on his first flight with limited knowledge.

I rest my case.

I agree 100% that commercial operators at this moment have more knowledge of air operations and safety requirements for normal FAA rules. However what I'm try to say is this.

If I go to an airport and try to buy a plane and take off with it. I would be stopped or arrested trying to fly without a pilots license. It's against the law. Privately or Commercially. Because even operating privately I am putting people at risk.

When I go to the store and buy a drone. I can fly it privately with no problems. But the risk is still the same for a fly away drone rather I'm using commercially or publicly.

Just this week a commercial operator here in town had a job to do with his drone. He had to take pics of the water tower. He has a 333.

When he went there. The amount of people near the water tower was zero. Not a soul in sight. However when I took off last week in my neighborhood people were at their homes. Cars where here. And other things could have went wrong. But I didn't need a pilots license to fly it and I followed all the rules.

My point is very simple. To do commercial work should not require a pilots license If you are not going to require a private operator to get one. It makes no difference.

 

[JasonJett]

I am afraid you are very wrong in your comments.
First and foremost, a commercial operator will have requested and obtained permissions to make the flight in question. This would include a briefing to both crew and any talent or civilians within 50m of the intended flight path. That means people are aware of a UAV above them, know what to do if a 'Terminate' signal is called and have given their permission for the aircraft to be near them.
A commercial operator will make a flight with contingencies in place should there be a problem.
A commercial operator will have a robust and approved pre, during and post checklist system in place that will be followed emphatically together with a lodged operations manual that the aviation body for that country will have approved.
The level of maintenance and pre flight planning will be that much higher for a commercial operator that (hopefully) should prevent a problem occuring.
However, should an issue arise, a commercial OP will have emergency (boldface) procedures in place (again stated in their ops manual) to deal with nearly all eventualities and minimise any collateral damage.
Additionally SHOULD an accident occur a commercial operator will have the mandatory liability insurance in place for indemnification.
Before ANY flight is undertaken by a commercial OP a full risk analysis is completed, together with a site survey for the purpose of identifying hazards and alternate landing/ditch sites.
Depending on the location local authorities maybe notified and a full list of localised emergency services will be recorded for easy reference should they be needed.
In a 'flyaway' situation, procedures will be followed and calculations made on time, speed, bearing and endurance which will be relayed to both the police and any relevant aviation authority.

Do most (or any) hobby fliers prepare and follow anything like the procedures above?
There is a reason a certification process is in place and it shows the countries aviation authority the operator has attained and understood a level of competency and safety required for safe operation.
Can ALL risk be removed? Most certainly not. However, all flights are about risk mitigation and risk assesement which 95 percent of 'hobby' fliers would not nor need to go through.

All of that sounds great but in a fly away situation it doesn't matter if you are commercial or private the risk is the same. If a pilots license it required for commercial it should be required for private as well. I'm just debating the people saying that just because they are doing commercial work that people should be licensed. It makes no sense in my opinion

 

[SanCap]

I agree 100% that commercial operators at this moment have more knowledge of air operations and safety requirements for normal FAA rules. However what I'm try to say is this.

If I go to an airport and try to buy a plane and take off with it. I would be stopped or arrested trying to fly without a pilots license. It's against the law. Privately or Commercially. Because even operating privately I am putting people at risk.

When I go to the store and buy a drone. I can fly it privately with no problems. But the risk is still the same for a fly away drone rather I'm using commercially or publicly.

Just this week a commercial operator here in town had a job to do with his drone. He had to take pics of the water tower. He has a 333.

When he went there. The amount of people near the water tower was zero. Not a soul in sight. However when I took off last week in my neighborhood people were at their homes. Cars where here. And other things could have went wrong. But I didn't need a pilots license to fly it and I followed all the rules.

My point is very simple. To do commercial work should not require a pilots license If you are not going to require a private operator to get one. It makes no difference.

Actually you do not need a Pilots License to buy or fly an aircraft. All you need is a students license, some instruction and a sign off by an instructor after you have shown him/her you can safely fly that particular aircraft. Most likely no one would ask you for a pilots license if you were buying an aircraft or walked out to the flight line and got inside and flew away.

 

[lake_flyer]

Flying a drone or in other words a RC aircraft that we have been doing for years without pilots license.

But only in a club and with a club instructor near by. Somewhere, hours driving away, on some little airstrip.
Drones can now be operated everywhere, without knowledge, people think. If they stayed on the club fields there was no argument at all.

I'm not at all afraid for the well trained and skilled RC hobby pilots. I have been one all my live and I know a good number of guys who are true flying artists. They fly as safe as possible and will never endanger anybody or anything.
I'm afraid for the guys who never flew even a kite in their lives and are now SUDDENLY operating drones, above people, railroads, highways, even at night and miles beyond line of sight.

 

[tweaker]

I agree 100% that commercial operators at this moment have more knowledge of air operations and safety requirements for normal FAA rules. However what I'm try to say is this.

If I go to an airport and try to buy a plane and take off with it. I would be stopped or arrested trying to fly without a pilots license. It's against the law. Privately or Commercially. Because even operating privately I am putting people at risk.

When I go to the store and buy a drone. I can fly it privately with no problems. But the risk is still the same for a fly away drone rather I'm using commercially or publicly.

Just this week a commercial operator here in town had a job to do with his drone. He had to take pics of the water tower. He has a 333.

When he went there. The amount of people near the water tower was zero. Not a soul in sight. However when I took off last week in my neighborhood people were at their homes. Cars where here. And other things could have went wrong. But I didn't need a pilots license to fly it and I followed all the rules.

My point is very simple. To do commercial work should not require a pilots license If you are not going to require a private operator to get one. It makes no difference.

Your just not getting it.

Anybody can buy anything if they have the money. Agreed

We are talking competency. How do you judge competency if you do not have formal assesment/qualifications? Explain.

With your rational if I buy a scapel I can be a surgeon with no medical schooling. Because you can buy something does not mean competency-and so we are back to formal testing/quals.

Wether you like it or not thats how it is.

 

[JasonJett]

Not sure we are getting anywhere. What you are saying is exactly what I'm saying. I'm raising question about private use.

Your comment how do you judge competency without formal training...you can't. And that's my point. Why are people allowed to fly drones without a pilots license?

It doesn't matter if it's commercial or for hobby. I can't fly a plane for private or commercial without a pilots license.

All I'm saying is the argument that you need a pilots licensed to fly commercially is invalid.

If pilots really wanted to make that a deal then they need a license for a hobbiest or commercial. You are still exposing the public with similar risk.

 

[tweaker]

Not sure we are getting anywhere. What you are saying is exactly what I'm saying. I'm raising question about private use.

Your comment how do you judge competency without formal training...you can't. And that's my point. Why are people allowed to fly drones without a pilots license?

It doesn't matter if it's commercial or for hobby. I can't fly a plane for private or commercial without a pilots license.

All I'm saying is the argument that you need a pilots licensed to fly commercially is invalid.

If pilots really wanted to make that a deal then they need a license for a hobbiest or commercial. You are still exposing the public with similar risk.

Sorry my friend thought you where coming from a different angle.

Its a pity that hobbyists will have their hobby spoiled by a few idiots who forget to pack their brain when they fly.

Hobbyists will sooner or later be required to be registered or something along those lines as the few will spoil for the many.This WILL happen Im pretty confident.

You cannot argue against restriction when faced with some of the reckless footage you can find on YT etc.

What format this will take for the hobbyist is anyones guess