Seeking opinions on firmware versions

[Ruckusman]

Hi Guys,

I'm making a seriously modified Inspire 1 for risky work, basically the jobs that don't merit risking an Inspire 2, over water, rough terrain etc.

One reason I'm doing this also is because I was on job last week and every second flight I got hit with distance limits - this whilst chasing a truck with a large, wide load over a 160km trip between midnight and 5:30 AM - to document the journey - that distance limit nonsense just isn't acceptable, even less so under those circumstances...

Battery MODS will be a done also so no unpleasant surprises there.

I've got a few prerequisites - need firmware which recognises the focus (a modified focus handwheel and remote which powers the handwheel) for the X5. If anyone knows chime in...

Also removing the dangerous safety features such as prop obstruction with it's false positives causing falling from the sky or autolanding, batteries switching off to save themselves, you know the type of firmware features I'm alluding to.
Cold weather battery safety isn't an issue where I live, and I do recall mishaps when that was first instigated.

Using the information on this site:
GitHub - mefistotelis/phantom-firmware-tools: Tools for handling DJI Phantom quadcopter firmwares.


I'm going to try and roll a firmware version with good image transmission, good flight characteristics - adequate speed, and obviously good image quality and data rates from both the X3 and X5.

I sold all of the DJI kit in a shop several years ago, and since resigning I have had little to do with all of the intricacies of the various firmware versions, so appreciate and feedback on the various versions anyone can offer.

The DJI firmware and APP roundabout is so amateur, so I'm looking to get the features I need working and lock the firmware and APP down to remain untouched.

For reference it's possible to roll back to any firmware version by making an empty file called either WM610_FW_DEBUG if using the X3 camera
WM610_FC550_FW_DEBUG if using the X5 camera.
Place it on the SD card with the firmware, I do recommend going stepwise rather than leaping versions.

For anyone wanting to know, I have an Inspire with X5 - rolled back to the original release firmware using the above technique - the Focus handwheel isn't recognised by the flight controller which is why I need to go forwards, but tentatively.

There are also techniques for rolling back remotes, I'll explain that to anyone seriously contemplating going back past the point where the transmission encryption was introduced, just ask, I just don't want this message to become to long

peace out

Glenn

 

[Scoobywrx05]

Hi Guys,

I'm making a seriously modified Inspire 1 for risky work, basically the jobs that don't merit risking an Inspire 2, over water, rough terrain etc.

One reason I'm doing this also is because I was on job last week and every second flight I got hit with distance limits - this whilst chasing a truck with a large, wide load over a 160km trip between midnight and 5:30 AM - to document the journey - that distance limit nonsense just isn't acceptable, even less so under those circumstances...

Battery MODS will be a done also so no unpleasant surprises there.

I've got a few prerequisites - need firmware which recognises the focus (a modified focus handwheel and remote which powers the handwheel) for the X5. If anyone knows chime in...

Also removing the dangerous safety features such as prop obstruction with it's false positives causing falling from the sky or autolanding, batteries switching off to save themselves, you know the type of firmware features I'm alluding to.
Cold weather battery safety isn't an issue where I live, and I do recall mishaps when that was first instigated.

Using the information on this site:
GitHub - mefistotelis/phantom-firmware-tools: Tools for handling DJI Phantom quadcopter firmwares.


I'm going to try and roll a firmware version with good image transmission, good flight characteristics - adequate speed, and obviously good image quality and data rates from both the X3 and X5.

I sold all of the DJI kit in a shop several years ago, and since resigning I have had little to do with all of the intricacies of the various firmware versions, so appreciate and feedback on the various versions anyone can offer.

The DJI firmware and APP roundabout is so amateur, so I'm looking to get the features I need working and lock the firmware and APP down to remain untouched.

For reference it's possible to roll back to any firmware version by making an empty file called either WM610_FW_DEBUG if using the X3 camera
WM610_FC550_FW_DEBUG if using the X5 camera.
Place it on the SD card with the firmware, I do recommend going stepwise rather than leaping versions.

For anyone wanting to know, I have an Inspire with X5 - rolled back to the original release firmware using the above technique - the Focus handwheel isn't recognised by the flight controller which is why I need to go forwards, but tentatively.

There are also techniques for rolling back remotes, I'll explain that to anyone seriously contemplating going back past the point where the transmission encryption was introduced, just ask, I just don't want this message to become to long

peace out

Glenn

What firmware are you on now Glenn?

 

[bluelight.support]

If you are making highly modified - would it be worth building from scratch not using DJI ?

 

[Ruckusman]

The firmware which was on the bird being flown was second most recent I believe, so v1.10.1.40 - though I will check later today.

Both remotes were on v1.7.80.

The to be modified craft is currently on v1.1.0.40 which was released 2015.11.24, I had rolled it back to v1.0.0.30 which was the initial release for the Inspire with X5. The remote is on 1.3.0.0.

This page has a good archive of firmware for Inspire 1 and the release dates.
http://panorobot.com/dji/inspire_firmwares.htm

This document has links to RC firmware versions and the corresponding Inspire 1 craft versions.
http://resource.dj2006.net/document/LB2_RCfinal_20160606.txt

Note that this firmware http://download.dji-innovations.com/downloads/inspire_1/C1_FW_V01.03.00.21.bin corresponds to 1.3.0.0 as displayed in the App.

The above page is also useful for seeing which elements were changed between different firmware versions.

FYI - the motors will be upgraded also to accommodate the extra weight of extra batteries, which rules out any potential firmware versions which may give motor obstructed for higher current draw.

Sunnysky xs4110s 400KV running 15" props

I will be within limits for the ESC's and the lift should be comparable to the Inspire 2 with that motor/prop combination.

 

[Ruckusman]

If you are making highly modified - would it be worth building from scratch not using DJI ?

When I say modified it's the batteries, reminiscent of the Battery mods on this site, having the installed battery with a bridge plug on the negative to prevent it powering off as well as a second set of cells wired directly to the centre board - that part is easy.

The other MOD is changed outer arms to allow larger props comfortably.

Both of these mods are very simple, just waiting for the parts for the outer arms to arrive.

Landing gear which retracts partially to eliminate feet coming into shot which has ruined a few for me in the past - that part is in the planning stage.

 

[Scoobywrx05]

The 1.9 seemed to be the one I had no problems with. 1.10 the image transmission went downhill. The 1.11 so far seems to be ok(knock on wood), but I still think the image transmission was better on the 1.9. The limit restriction is caused by the 3.1.15 app. Some guys are signing out then signing back in and that is taking care of the problem. That didn't work for me tho. I'd always have to start the app last in start up otherwise the limit would be there. I deleted the app for the second time today and reinstalled on my iPad mini 4 and it seems to be working properly now. For the time being. 3.1.14 worked well for me tho. Curious to see your arm changes to run the 15 inch props cause I was thinking of doing the same thing.

 

[Ruckusman]

I'm using these Wiggle | Ritchey Pro Road/TT S-Bend Extensions | Aero Handlebars

They're in transit, but the outer diameter of the tube is 22.2mm which means removing either a little from the inside of the aluminium arm section from broken outer arm sections which I already have with the broken carbon tube already removed.

I also have some carbon versions which are another brand but I want to test the flight characteristics first.

I don't know if I'd put 15" props on the standard motors with later firmware as to me that risks motor obstructed errors because of the added drag drawing more current.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, or has that error been replaced with propulsion output limited?

If you were happier with 1.9 use the DEBUG rollback.

I just tested WM610_FC550_FW_V01.02.00.50.bin - the focus handwheel is still not functional, so now I'm into the territory with the "prop obstruction" and "battery powering off to save itself" region with the firmware.

 

[Scoobywrx05]

I'm using these Wiggle | Ritchey Pro Road/TT S-Bend Extensions | Aero Handlebars

They're in transit, but the outer diameter of the tube is 22.2mm which means removing either a little from the inside of the aluminium arm section from broken outer arm sections which I already have with the broken carbon tube already removed.

I also have some carbon versions which are another brand but I want to test the flight characteristics first.

I don't know if I'd put 15" props on the standard motors with later firmware as to me that risks motor obstructed errors because of the added drag drawing more current.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, or has that error been replaced with propulsion output limited?

If you were happier with 1.9 use the DEBUG rollback.

I just tested WM610_FC550_FW_V01.02.00.50.bin - the focus handwheel is still not functional, so now I'm into the territory with the "prop obstruction" and "battery powering off to save itself" region with the firmware.

For insurance reasons I have to be up to date on firmware which I think is stupid but whatever they want. Lol. The only time I ever got the message is when I ran 1360 props at 1700 feet asl. Just have to be aware of what pitch and weight to run to not overload the motors. Stock dji 1345 is 18 grams,1360 is around 25g. The carbon 1345s I run now are 17g. I was actually thinking of running a slower rpm motor that's higher in torque and run a higher pitched prop. Gonna try to make this flying lawn mower as quiet as possible is the plan. Lol

 

[The Editor]

Hi Guys,

I'm making a seriously modified Inspire 1 for risky work, basically the jobs that don't merit risking an Inspire 2, over water, rough terrain etc.

One reason I'm doing this also is because I was on job last week and every second flight I got hit with distance limits - this whilst chasing a truck with a large, wide load over a 160km trip between midnight and 5:30 AM - to document the journey - that distance limit nonsense just isn't acceptable, even less so under those circumstances...

Battery MODS will be a done also so no unpleasant surprises there.

I've got a few prerequisites - need firmware which recognises the focus (a modified focus handwheel and remote which powers the handwheel) for the X5. If anyone knows chime in...

Also removing the dangerous safety features such as prop obstruction with it's false positives causing falling from the sky or autolanding, batteries switching off to save themselves, you know the type of firmware features I'm alluding to.
Cold weather battery safety isn't an issue where I live, and I do recall mishaps when that was first instigated.

Using the information on this site:
GitHub - mefistotelis/phantom-firmware-tools: Tools for handling DJI Phantom quadcopter firmwares.


I'm going to try and roll a firmware version with good image transmission, good flight characteristics - adequate speed, and obviously good image quality and data rates from both the X3 and X5.

I sold all of the DJI kit in a shop several years ago, and since resigning I have had little to do with all of the intricacies of the various firmware versions, so appreciate and feedback on the various versions anyone can offer.

The DJI firmware and APP roundabout is so amateur, so I'm looking to get the features I need working and lock the firmware and APP down to remain untouched.

For reference it's possible to roll back to any firmware version by making an empty file called either WM610_FW_DEBUG if using the X3 camera
WM610_FC550_FW_DEBUG if using the X5 camera.
Place it on the SD card with the firmware, I do recommend going stepwise rather than leaping versions.

For anyone wanting to know, I have an Inspire with X5 - rolled back to the original release firmware using the above technique - the Focus handwheel isn't recognised by the flight controller which is why I need to go forwards, but tentatively.

There are also techniques for rolling back remotes, I'll explain that to anyone seriously contemplating going back past the point where the transmission encryption was introduced, just ask, I just don't want this message to become to long

peace out

Glenn

The 'Holy Grail' firmware you are after doesn't exist. As you have discovered it was only later FW which introduced things like Focus Wheel compatibility but by that time, introductions into the code had been made to limit battery current draw (the cold weather update) as well as limit top speed at full throttle.
There were earlier version obviously that didn't have these 'features' but had inherent bugs which included' remote controllers turning themselves off randomly, batteries going into self discharge destruction, compass anomomalies which gave very bad TBE etc etc.
When you start modification such as you are talking about involving a change of motors, increase in arm length and swinging larger props you may as well go a self build route.
You will be altering the whole flight dynamics of the aircraft in changing arm length which will alter how the flight controllers limitations and working envelope are designed.
The Inspire 1 was built around the E800 propulsion system and changing to 4110/400's will not suddenly give it Inspire 2 magical powers I'm afraid.
The Inspire 2 esc apart from having redundancy via twin data streams are uprated and have a much improved drive pulse characteristic.
By placing a larger, steeper pitch prop you will immediately by drawing more current and increase the inertial mass of the rotor. How will this effect the dynamic breaking which uses back emf into the esc to arrest the spin of the propellers.
There is more to it I'm afraid and I believe a different airframe would be better suited to your needs rather than try and Frankenstein an Inspire 1.

 

[Ruckusman]

For insurance reasons I have to be up to date on firmware which I think is stupid but whatever they want. Lol. The only time I ever got the message is when I ran 1360 props at 1700 feet asl. Just have to be aware of what pitch and weight to run to not overload the motors. Stock dji 1345 is 18 grams,1360 is around 25g. The carbon 1345s I run now are 17g. I was actually thinking of running a slower rpm motor that's higher in torque and run a higher pitched prop. Gonna try to make this flying lawn mower as quiet as possible is the plan. Lol

Yeah if the insurers knew the truth of some of the firmware updates that would prescribe otherwise.

When people used to get excited about firmware I used to say - you DON'T want to be the first, EVER.

Just to clarify, you got propulsion output limited - correct? Not the motor obstruction and tumble from the sky...

We're on the same path, I'm expanding the frame just enough for prop clearance with 15" and I've got
different pitch props in both 14" and 15" to test.

 

[Ruckusman]

The 'Holy Grail' firmware you are after doesn't exist. As you have discovered it was only later FW which introduced things like Focus Wheel compatibility but by that time, introductions into the code had been made to limit battery current draw (the cold weather update) as well as limit top speed at full throttle.
There were earlier version obviously that didn't have these 'features' but had inherent bugs which included' remote controllers turning themselves off randomly, batteries going into self discharge destruction, compass anomomalies which gave very bad TBE etc etc.
When you start modification such as you are talking about involving a change of motors, increase in arm length and swinging larger props you may as well go a self build route.
You will be altering the whole flight dynamics of the aircraft in changing arm length which will alter how the flight controllers limitations and working envelope are designed.
The Inspire 1 was built around the E800 propulsion system and changing to 4110/400's will not suddenly give it Inspire 2 magical powers I'm afraid.
The Inspire 2 esc apart from having redundancy via twin data streams are uprated and have a much improved drive pulse characteristic.
By placing a larger, steeper pitch prop you will immediately by drawing more current and increase the inertial mass of the rotor. How will this effect the dynamic breaking which uses back emf into the esc to arrest the spin of the propellers.
There is more to it I'm afraid and I believe a different airframe would be better suited to your needs rather than try and Frankenstein an Inspire 1.

All good points, and I understand where you're coming from, which is why I've asked the question

I do remember the TBE from compass errors with very early firmware, major PITA if you got one of those units, as well as the self discharge killing batteries.

Repaired a few units which fell from the sky with motor obstruction on 1.6, unfortunately I'm at that level now and still no communication with the focus, so upwards again.

From looking at which modules are updated with each version, I can say it's primarily the flight control code with "features" which caused errors - the ESC firmware versions for example remain unchanged.

There is the remote possibility of actually modifying the flight control code to change the parameters - this will be a last resort step. The hackers on the P3's and the new generation models are already deep into that.

The unpacking of the binary firmware lump allows me to substitute various modules if I can identify the problematic modules within any one version.

I'm not intending to stray too far outside the design envelope only going to 15" props and I'm not one for fast flying, the larger motor/prop combo is for the added battery weight alone.

Only thing preventing me making another airframe and using another flight controller (definitely not DJI) at this stage is the lack of a focus mechanism which works at long distances.

Remember this is for work which just doesn't merit risking the expense of an Inspire 2, but does need dual operator - for anything else the P4 pretty much covers it.

 

[Scoobywrx05]

Yeah if the insurers knew the truth of some of the firmware updates that would prescribe otherwise.

When people used to get excited about firmware I used to say - you DON'T want to be the first, EVER.

Just to clarify, you got propulsion output limited - correct? Not the motor obstruction and tumble from the sky...

We're on the same path, I'm expanding the frame just enough for prop clearance with 15" and I've got
different pitch props in both 14" and 15" to test.

That is correct. Propulsion output limited. Only happened with the 1360 props at the elevation I live at. I would have to be at full stick, for 30 seconds before it would flash the warning. Normal flying around it wouldn't come up. Braking wasn't as precise and it was a bit more unstable than the 1345 props with full stick down. All was good with them till the day I pushed my luck running those props and was out to set a new speed record with it. Lol. It set a new record with how fast it could fall to the ground when the battery shut off.

 

[Ruckusman]

OUCH - that has always been a loathsome feature, the batteries turning off to save themselves, the only upside I can see from you story is that the motors didn't shut off, not that the end result would have been any different

 

[Scoobywrx05]

The editor has some very valid points that I have also thought about and I'm sure there is a fine line of having it be able to work and stay within the FC,esc limits or it'll fly like crap and/or crash and burn.

 

[Scoobywrx05]

OUCH - that has always been a loathsome feature, the batteries turning off to save themselves, the only upside I can see from you story is that the motors didn't shut off, not that the end result would have been any different

Well I have a bunch of spare parts now. Lol

 

[Ruckusman]

The editor has some very valid points that I have also thought about and I'm sure there is a fine line of having it be able to work and stay within the FC,esc limits or it'll fly like crap and/or crash and burn.

Yeah agreed, I hope I didn't come off as dismissive.
I'm aiming for ~25% more thrust, which will compensate for extra battery weight - which will be repacked with proper 10C batteries @ 6000mAh, plus an extra 3000mAh external for flights with the X5.

I wouldn't be doing this if I could sweat the plastic parts off of the broken outer carbon booms because I've basically got an entire unit minus both outer booms from parts. One mishap though and I'm going to replacing the inner arms at the transform because of that rubbish plastic.

Plus I fly really low, and usually slow, so with the camera close to horizontal a little gust of wind can be sufficient to ruin a shot with the landing foot.

I'm up to 1.9.30 firmware wise - I should have read the firmware release doc properly, Focus doesn't come in till 1.7.40 on the remote.

It looks as though I'll be modifying the flight control parameters if possible, removing propulsion output limited might not be a necessity if the batteries can turn themselves off but power remain to the craft, it's of no consequence.

I would like to modify the battery boards to reflect the increased capacity and reset discharges and the capacity reduction which is calculated, however my attempts so far have been fruitless - more to do

 

[Scoobywrx05]

Yeah agreed, I hope I didn't come off as dismissive.
I'm aiming for ~25% more thrust, which will compensate for extra battery weight - which will be repacked with proper 10C batteries @ 6000mAh, plus an extra 3000mAh external for flights with the X5.

I wouldn't be doing this if I could sweat the plastic parts off of the broken outer carbon booms because I've basically got an entire unit minus both outer booms from parts. One mishap though and I'm going to replacing the inner arms at the transform because of that rubbish plastic.

Plus I fly really low, and usually slow, so with the camera close to horizontal a little gust of wind can be sufficient to ruin a shot with the landing foot.

I'm up to 1.9.30 firmware wise - I should have read the firmware release doc properly, Focus doesn't come in till 1.7.40 on the remote.

It looks as though I'll be modifying the flight control parameters if possible, removing propulsion output limited might not be a necessity if the batteries can turn themselves off but power remain to the craft, it's of no consequence.

I would like to modify the battery boards to reflect the increased capacity and reset discharges and the capacity reduction which is calculated, however my attempts so far have been fruitless - more to do

You mean like this?

 

[Scoobywrx05]

 

[Ruckusman]

View attachment 15915

That's what I tried also, but cutting from the inside to breach just the carbon tube then trying to heat the epoxy back to it's liquid temp.
The plastic gives way before the epoxy does unfortunately.

Heating the aluminium for the centre of the boom I had to basically get the carbon tube smoking before the epoxy gave way, but it came out relatively clean with only small amounts of residue.

That failure lead me to assessing motors of comparable output to use on normal motor mounts - I think I've gone up in output just enough to keep it tame enough and within the parameter settings available.

If you think about it, there's ~400 grams between X3 & TB47 -> X5 & TB48, a little more for X5r, then if you add the extra batteries some are using with the battery mods I think the characteristics should fall some where between X3/TB47 & X5/TB48 for flight characteristics.

himodel.com has very good prices on carbon tube for if you're going to replace the outer booms with straight carbon tube

 

[Ruckusman]

If you are making highly modified - would it be worth building from scratch not using DJI ?

I would do that in a heartbeat, but something comparable, say a GH4 and the connex for video transmission in cost alone would be more than the Inspire and X5 given the second hands prices now