Be Carefull

[Arctictern]

During a site risk assessment you should (if possible) locate two 'ditch sites' that you can use in an emergency. Ideally these would be open areas (fields, large open spaces etc).
In the event of your aircraft developing some kind of fault where it is heading towards say a busy road, or school or built up area and you have limited control and have identified a major problem with your control link etc or mechanical problem. It would be more prudent to initiate a kill motor command over your ditch site than allow the craft to enter into dangerous airspace above a freeway or heavily populated area.

A possible scenario I guess but if control is so limited that you can't stop it moving in a particular direction and/or make it descend is it going to respond to a kill motor command? All hypothetical I guess but worth imagining a possible scenario so a plan is in place if ever required.

 

[damoncooper]

Motor bearing fault or one of you aircraft motors has ingested debris, etc, and the motor isn't able to respond to ESC instructions properly, leaving you AC spiraling dangerously out of control and headed towards an area with civilians. Rather than let the AC continue to crash into unprotected men women and children, with at least 3 13-inch blades wreaking their havoc, CSC and ditch a safe distance away.

 

[Kilrah]

Following any kind of mechanical failure in flight, loss of prop or anything that would end up with your craft falling down without anything you can do you should turn the motors off so at least the brick that falls down is just a brick, not one with rotating cutters.
Same if you simply crash it yourself, motors would still be running on the ground and you'll want to be able to shut them down ASAP before the wreck risks moving/hitting anybody.

A possible scenario I guess but if control is so limited that you can't stop it moving in a particular direction and/or make it descend is it going to respond to a kill motor command?

Well for example with the unreliable drop to ATTI in FW .17 where the aircraft would continue to trust false GPS/compass info for some time the aircraft would appear not to respond to commands (it would try to, but as it was confused as to where it was and was heading there would be no noticeable action on trajectory) a kill would still have worked even when "steering" didn't seem to and could have been mistaken for a link loss.
Of course there the preferable solution was to switch to ATTI manually rather than doing a kill, but for example if in the heat of the action you did not understand what was going on and how to solve it and the aircraft was over a safe area as a decent operator you should be ready to hit the "kill switch" and actually do so without thinking of the $3k that are going in the trash... even if you realise 10 seconds later you didn't actually have to kill it.

 

[Arctictern]

All very interesting examples, thanks. It would be interesting to see how it all played out though in the heat of action with a lot of decisions to make in a very short time. You could be in a situation where it was very hard to tell whether you had strayed over people or not with depth perception issues and the craft out of control. Ditching it could possibly make the situation worse.

Identifying alternative emergency landing sites is very prudent and should be part of everybody's ops manual but would you be in a situation where you had enough control to get the craft back over these sites but then kill motors when you did do rather than just land it?

Just playing devils advocate here and very interesting to hear how others would potentially deal with certain scenarios

The kill motors option is a very last resort I guess as once you have initiated it you are definitely not in control.

 

[damoncooper]

Another case for CSC could be severe loss of orientation by the pilot, where you realize "too late" you've been instructing the AC full throttle one direction when you thought you were sending it in another direction. It's too late to bleed your speed and you realize you are going to crash, it's only a matter of who or what you hit, and CSC can be an option that can help minimize damage or injury.

With a destructive crash into a people or property (you had been filming an exotic car show, let's say and it's headed straight towards a prototype Lamborghini worth more than you make in quite a few years), better to CSC if it's safer or if safety of people isn't a concern, less damage would result, even considering momentum.

It's built in for a reason. Not to be used lightly, but considering you are commanding a 6lb object with 4 potentially deadly rotating 13-inch scissors at speeds of up to 75mph at up to 400ft up, it's an essential tool in your tool box "just in case" the worst happens.

 

[Drone Mastery]

Well, I believe that in a perfect world , shutting down the motors in flight, knowing that it would hit people would be better however that is not reality... Ever had a flyaway or it going out of control? What's your first instinct? Human reaction is first to try and regain control, to process that much information in that short of time is nearly impossible to shut it off in flight instead of trying to correct its flight.... Out of all the flyways that this forum has discussed by people that have experienced them, have you ever heard of someone EVER shutting it down in mid air when it's out of control? Our brains react to try and correct its flight... I just think it's more dangerous to be able to accidentally shut it down if the sticks are in a certain position while filming ect.

 

[kenny kustom]

I would think, most flyaway's are due to no response from controller... If it will not respond to correct the action, how can you shut it down?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drone Mastery]

I would think, most flyaway's are due to no response from controller... If it will not respond to correct the action, how can you shut it down?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good example Kenny, Even if that's a case that there is no response from the controller, why even have the ability to accidentally initiate the CSC....

 

[The Editor]

I think expired Equidae are being flagellated here.....
All decent operators should have an emergency or boldface procedure action to go through in the event of an unexpected dangerous situation. Exactly the same as pilots have. They have a list of boldface actions that must be undertaken instinctively in the event of an emergency. You as an operator of an aircraft should be exactly the same.
In the UK, the CAA insist on it and you are tested during your flight assessment with up to four emergencies. If you do not act correctly in any one of your emergency procedures you do not get passed and do not gain certification for commercial work.
Flying for fun/hobby should carry no less responsibility with regards to safety.

 

[Drone Mastery]

Editor,
Out of all respect i am also a pilot, and yes you are correct, instinctively as pilots we are supposed to maintain a very high level of instinctive emergency procedures, however to fly a drone is nothing like flying a airplane. Sure, being in the air we have the same responsibilities and knowing and understanding telemetry and operation is a must You cannot compare a fixed wing aircraft with a rotor. However, I will post my question again, Has anyone ever heard of csc being initiated in flight during a flyaway?

 

[damoncooper]

Editor,
Out of all respect i am also a pilot, and yes you are correct, instinctively as pilots we are supposed to maintain a very high level of instinctive emergency procedures, however to fly a drone is nothing like flying a airplane. Sure, being in the air we have the same responsibilities and knowing and understanding telemetry and operation is a must. However, I will post my question again, Has anyone ever heard of csc being initiated in flight during a flyaway?

I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this but whether or not a ditch has been reported or not is a moot point, as it has been a safety feature built into DJI flight controllers for years. I don't see them removing it and I would be surprised if they did.

 

[Drone Mastery]

Thanks damon,
My point is... You have heard of people accidentally initiating csc during flight without meaning to and dropping their craft, however you have not heard of anyone utilizing csc for an emergency procedure. What is a better alternative?

 

[Kilrah]

Making the pilots well aware it is there and teaching them to resort to it should the need arise.

Again CSC for motors off has been THE way to shut down motors at any time across all brands pretty much since multirotors appeared nearly a decade ago and it has never been a problem. The reason why we hear much of it nowadays is the usual one - people with no idea who do crap. The solution is to train them, not to remove a safety feature that is there for those who know what't they're doing.

 

[Arctictern]

It would be very interesting to hear an official reason from DJI as to why they implement this ability to shut down the motors while airborne.

My personal opinion (not to say its correct) is I have not 'so far' heard of any really convincing scenario that would lead me to want to shut my motors down while "airborne". This is not a financial consideration either. I'm sure if you asked most pilots to chose between injuring people or damaging their craft they would go with the second option without question. If the craft suffers some kind of mechanical failure on a prop, motor or esc etc its probably going to drop anyway. I would doubt that would make it set off on it's own towards a potentially dangerous situation. I guess in a flyaway situation you may want to kill the motors as a last resort but by the time you have established this in your effort to regain control the craft is probably going to be a long way away and could be over people, roads etc. To me, while it is airborne and flying there is always the potential to regain control and get it to safety. Also, as Kenny says above, if it doesn't respond to the controller for flight control it's probably not going to respond to a CSC.

If it is felt that "motor shutdown while airborne" is an absolutely necessary safety precaution then maybe it should be implemented via a separate switch and an independent radio channel on the remote. This would make it operational during a flyaway situation.

At the moment it seems like more dangerous situations are being created by having this option than the dangerous situations it is avoiding as no one so far has any examples of anyone who has used it intentionally.

Saying all of this, I'm still not sure how anyone can initiate a CSC by accident!

 

[Drone Mastery]

Making the pilots well aware it is there and teaching them to resort to it should the need arise.

Again CSC for motors off has been THE way to shut down motors at any time across all brands pretty much since multirotors appeared nearly a decade ago and it has never been a problem. The reason why we hear much of it nowadays is the usual one - people with no idea who do crap. The solution is to train them, not to remove a safety feature that is there for those who know what't they're doing.

Well Kilrah, guess you have never had a drone do this to you and if you have did you use the csc function? There have been hundreds or even thousands of problems with drones in the air, saying that all these people don't know crap is quite ignorent on your part, I find it quite hilarious that you defend this feature but you or anyone yet can't give one example of anyone using it in a desperate situation. Prove me wrong, please

 

[The Editor]

Well Kilrah, guess you have never had a drone do this to you and if you have did you use the csc function? There have been hundreds or even thousands of problems with drones in the air, saying that all these people don't know crap is quite ignorent on your part, I find it quite hilarious that you defend this feature but you or anyone yet can't give one example of anyone using it in a desperate situation. Prove me wrong, please

You may pontificate until you exhaust yourself however, the fact is CSC has been there from day one and will not be taken away since it is a safety feature.
It is also used to arm the esc's, a technique that has been around in the RC world for 30 years.
I think it is time to move on with this thread and agree to disagree.

 

[huppe]

I have tested full throttle down many times and did never had a shutdown.Not at any altitude.Tested this from 10 mtr(30ft) and from "sorry" 200 mtr(700ft).Never happened.This was tested with only the left stick down.But when I go down as I always do I go forward and back.Then I pay a lot of attention that I change my forward and backward move.Just to avoid a CSC.This goes up when I descent from higher altitudes.But the best way is descent before your battery is less than 30%.Get your Inspire back at time.

 

[Drone Mastery]

You may pontificate until you exhaust yourself however, the fact is CSC has been there from day one and will not be taken away since it is a safety feature.
It is also used to arm the esc's, a technique that has been around in the RC world for 30 years.
I think it is time to move on with this thread and agree to disagree.

I rest my case....

Editor, you decided to close the last thread about androids, saying that a 10.5 Samsung Tab S doesn't fit the I1 remote, well it does fit, it's snug and they work awesome. Myself and a friend both use these without any mods. The reason why i am bringing it up is because we want the pilots to have the most options available to them.

 

[The Editor]

I rest my case....

Editor, you decided to close the last thread about androids, saying that a 10.5 Samsung Tab S doesn't fit the I1 remote, well it does fit, it's snug and they work awesome. Myself and a friend both use these without any mods. The reason why i am bringing it up is because we want the pilots to have the most options available to them.

Can you show me where I closed the thread because I said an Android 10.5 S doesn't fit the Inspire tablet holder please?
Just post a link and I will take a look.

Thanks.

 

[IrishSights]

CSC is there, DJI will not make it go away, even if you think they should. Get over it please, now go and enjoy a flight or 2. This has run its course.